non-work non-student leave to remain? (complicated)

[gliberty]

Hello everyone,

I am new here but did some searching and reading - I have not found another post that touches on my particular case.

First of all, I am American but my mother is British, however she was born outside the UK (but in a British embassy hospital, during WWII), however, my cousin already went through the whole thing (his mum and mine are twins) so I know for a fact that I do not qualify for naturalization.

Second, my mother is ill with Multiple Sclerosis. I am not her carer, but she is better off for having one of her children here with her.

Third, I am currently here on a visitor visa, and am employed by an American company (and spending all that money here!). For an indefinite period I can work for this American company remotely (sometimes I may travel for a couple of weeks if I need to, but otherwise I can do all my work remotely), so the work visa thing does not really work for me.

It may be possible to try to get a work-type visa if my employer would be willing to do the paperwork, if there is an appropriate one for American-employer-London-office BUT there is no actual London office - just me in my flat - and I do not want to push them to do a visa application since they have been extremely generous already by letting me work from here in the first place. Plus there is no work reason for me to be here - most of the work visa ones that might apply to my situation expect a reason for the foreign company to require the worker to be in the UK - but I am not here for work, I am here for family and personal reasons. So I would much rather not go that route.

Finally, I would do the tier 1 thing but I do not qualify because I do not have a Masters degree (I do fill the income requirement, etc).

Please, any help greatly appreciated!

[PaperPusher]

Hello everyone,

..............................

I am currently here on a visitor visa, and am employed by an American company (and spending all that money here!). For an indefinite period I can work for this American company remotely ................ and I do not want to push them to do a visa application since they have been extremely generous already by letting me work from here in the first place.

You are not supposed to be doing ANY work in the UK. And that goes for paid and unpaid work. Please read the sticker or ink stamp in your passport, it says "no work"

What you seem to be doing is breaking the law:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

Even business visitors cannot work away on their laptop for 6 months in a flat.

It is reasonable to expect those coming to the UK as Business Visitors (to attend meetings etc) to want to make use of their laptop/Raspberry whilst here. Provided this is solely to enable the Business Visitor to keep up to date with their own workload abroad, or to liaise with contacts in the UK, UKBA would not consider this as `work’ for the purposes of the Immigration Rules.

[gliberty]

You are not supposed to be doing ANY work in the UK. And that goes for paid and unpaid work.

What you seem to be doing is breaking the law:

I was told by a UK immigration lawyer that it is legal if for my American company only, on a visitor visa. I think what you have quoted is about doing work for a UK meeting or event, while traveling here for work purpose--i.e. the work is for someone in the UK. My work is not for a UK company, and therefore, according the immigration lawyer that I spoke with, it is OK.

That is why it says its OK if it is "to keep up with their own workload" which is all I am doing: keeping up with my workload for my American company, NOT doing work for a UK company. According to the immigration lawyer, this makes it perfectly legal.

[PaperPusher]

And their name, or the firm, and the relevant case law?

[gliberty]

And their name, or the firm, and the relevant case law?

It was through my company. I seriously doubt that a highly respected US company would put themselves on the line to break UK immigration law just for me. They have a hired attorney on staff who contacted a UK immigration lawyer and settled this. I do not know the name of the company, but I trust that the company I work for would not put their neck on the line for this. It would ruin their reputation, which is why they paid the attorney top dollar to figure out the details on this complicated matter.

Now, instead of prodding me about that, do you have any suggestions for what I can do next?

[newperson]

And their name, or the firm, and the relevant case law?

It was through my company. I seriously doubt that a highly respected US company would put themselves on the line to break UK immigration law just for me. They have a hired attorney on staff who contacted a UK immigration lawyer and settled this. I do not know the name of the company, but I trust that the company I work for would not put their neck on the line for this. It would ruin their reputation, which is why they paid the attorney top dollar to figure out the details on this complicated matter.

Now, instead of prodding me about that, do you have any suggestions for what I can do next?

You might not like to hear it, but PaperPusher is 100% correct. If the Border Agency found out about this, they would deport you and look to fine your employer up to £10,000. Them's the facts.

Apart from finding someone British/EU to marry or studying here for a degree or finding a British company to go through the process of engaging you as a work permit hire (very difficult), there's no other option for doing what you want to do.

[PaperPusher]

The quote I posted above was for business visitors, which is a special class of visitors who are allowed to do things general visitors are not. I think you are here as a general visitor.

Not working includes not providing services in the UK.

There may not be a way for you to come to the UK and work remotely for an employer based in another country. There is a route for sole representatives to establish a branch in the UK. If you have an immigration lawyer you really should ask them.

You should also ask them what to say to the immigration officer at the desk on your next trip to the UK about working, because one thing is certain you would be stuffed if you got caught lying. You do have to satisfy the entry clearance officer or immigration officer that you have enough funds and a reason to return home, so money and your job will come up at some point I am sure.

I am sure there would be no problem if you got the odd unsolicited work phonecall however, but this does not seem to be what you are talking about.

[gliberty]

Not working includes not providing services in the UK.

Well, I was told that what I am doing is fine. I am here to see my mother, and I am not working for any UK office. I am legal as far as the lawyer is concerned. My question here is whether my mother's needs matter - can I get compassionate leave to remain for a longer period?

[Wanderer]

Not working includes not providing services in the UK.

Well, I was told that what I am doing is fine. I am here to see my mother, and I am not working for any UK office. I am legal as far as the lawyer is concerned. My question here is whether my mother's needs matter - can I get compassionate leave to remain for a longer period?

You're working illegally mate, no doubt about it and if you're caught you and your employer are up for the high-jump. And, a probable ban for you. Your employer is acting very irresponsibly.

Plus there's no real way of extending a visit visa, unless things get so serious death is involved.

I don't think you are listening though....

[taliska]

gilberty it sounds like you may have to just keep regularly visiting, but you may have to seek legal advice there may be compassionate grounds, but also maybe some ancestry case there as your mother is British and lives here. Seeing that your job is based abroad, you are not really working in the UK but like many business men on holiday just checkin in to the office. But if you wanted to base your business here getting paid into a UK bank account etc... you would definitely be doing something illegal. Good luck and all the best with your mum.

[PaperPusher]

The suggestion to go for an ancestry visa is only available to people born in a commonwealth country, which the United States is not.

Second, my mother is ill with Multiple Sclerosis. I am not her carer, but she is better off for having one of her children here with her.

My question here is whether my mother's needs matter - can I get compassionate leave to remain for a longer period?

As far as compassionate leave to remain goes:

There is no provision in the Immigration Rules for issuing entry clearance on the basis of an applicant coming to the UK to care for a sick family member or friend. A person who wishes to enter the UK to provide short-term care or make alternative arrangements for the long term care of a friend/relative may do so under the Rules relating to general visitors.

From:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

If something happened to your mother that meant she needed your care for a little while you may be able to get a short extension (3 months). See the link I gave just above, otherwise you cannot stay to be around your mother as far as I am aware.

Well, I was told that what I am doing is fine.

I meant what I said about asking what you should say about this work to an immigration officer, or rather how you would demonstrate that it is fine as you waited in the holding room with the lovely bolted down chairs for your flight home. Lying is not an option. You need to think that way because it is you seeking entry to the UK, not the lawyer. Even if I am wrong, I would like to know in what way and why "remote working is fine as a visitor" isn't in Macdonald's Immigration Law & Practice

I think your only straightforward routes to stay in the UK are student or Tier 2 (sponsored skilled worker).

[gliberty]

Thank you to Taliska and Wanderer.

One final thing PaperPusher. You say:

The suggestion to go for an ancestry visa is only available to people born in a commonwealth country, which the United States is not.

And this indicates to me the limits of your knowledge. I am a hair's breath away from being able to become a UK subject, and it has nothing to do with being or not being born in a commonwealth country. All that is required is that you have one British parent, and either filled out the paperwork before turning 18 or - given a law that passed maybe 5 or 6 years ago - after 18 so long as your British parent was born in the UK.

I do not *quite* qualify on that last count as my mother was born in a UK embassy abroad and they declined a family member of mine who had the same circumstances. However, some would say that I should still try given my mother's condition.

In any case, I think this is enough bantering on a bulletin board where obviously all the circumstances cannot be taken into account in a complicated situation. Best to go speak to someone as you say.

[Wanderer]

Thank you to Taliska and Wanderer.

One final thing PaperPusher. You say:

The suggestion to go for an ancestry visa is only available to people born in a commonwealth country, which the United States is not.

And this indicates to me the limits of your knowledge. I am a hair's breath away from being able to become a UK subject, and it has nothing to do with being or not being born in a commonwealth country. All that is required is that you have one British parent, and either filled out the paperwork before turning 18 or - given a law that passed maybe 5 or 6 years ago - after 18 so long as your British parent was born in the UK.

I do not *quite* qualify on that last count as my mother was born in a UK embassy abroad and they declined a family member of mine who had the same circumstances. However, some would say that I should still try given my mother's condition.

In any case, I think this is enough bantering on a bulletin board where obviously all the circumstances cannot be taken into account in a complicated situation. Best to go speak to someone as you say.

PP is right, for Ancestry visa you need to be a citizen of a Commonwealth country. I think ur talking about pure inherited birthright, in that a BC passes his citizenship on to his children, if born or naturalised in UK (British otherwise than by descent), whereas one born abroad who has had this passed to him (British by Descent) cannot pass it on, as ur case.

[gliberty]

PP is right, for Ancestry visa you need to be a citizen of a Commonwealth country. I think ur talking about pure inherited birthright, in that a BC passes his citizenship on to his children, if born or naturalised in UK (British otherwise than by descent), whereas one born abroad who has had this passed to him (British by Descent) cannot pass it on, as ur case.

British embassy should be British soil.

[Wanderer]

PP is right, for Ancestry visa you need to be a citizen of a Commonwealth country. I think ur talking about pure inherited birthright, in that a BC passes his citizenship on to his children, if born or naturalised in UK (British otherwise than by descent), whereas one born abroad who has had this passed to him (British by Descent) cannot pass it on, as ur case.

British embassy should be British soil.

It's a common misconception that it is.

[vinny]

Second, my mother is ill with Multiple Sclerosis. I am not her carer, but she is better off for having one of her children here with her.

Third, I am currently here on a visitor visa, and am employed by an American company (and spending all that money here!). For an indefinite period I can work for this American company remotely (sometimes I may travel for a couple of weeks if I need to, but otherwise I can do all my work remotely), so the work visa thing does not really work for me.

2.1.7 Discretion outside the rules or leave to remain beyond six months

Leave to remain beyond the six month maximum period should only be granted in the most exceptional compassionate circumstances such as the illness of a close relative (see the instruction relating to Chapter 17 Section 2 - Carers).

[Vanadil]

I seriously doubt that a highly respected US company would put themselves on the line to break UK immigration law just for me.

I've heard of quite a few compnaies (Inclduing a very large Oil compnay) that get so large they simply just don't care. Everything isn't quite as shiny an polished as large corparations and the Home Office make out ^_^.

[keshgrover]

Second, my mother is ill with Multiple Sclerosis. I am not her carer, but she is better off for having one of her children here with her.

Third, I am currently here on a visitor visa, and am employed by an American company (and spending all that money here!). For an indefinite period I can work for this American company remotely (sometimes I may travel for a couple of weeks if I need to, but otherwise I can do all my work remotely), so the work visa thing does not really work for me.

2.1.7 Discretion outside the rules or leave to remain beyond six months

Leave to remain beyond the six month maximum period should only be granted in the most exceptional compassionate circumstances such as the illness of a close relative (see the instruction relating to Chapter 17 Section 2 - Carers).

Vinny has provided quite interesting links.

[vinny]

Third, I am currently here on a visitor visa, and am employed by an American company (and spending all that money here!). For an indefinite period I can work for this American company remotely (sometimes I may travel for a couple of weeks if I need to, but otherwise I can do all my work remotely), so the work visa thing does not really work for me.

It may be possible to try to get a work-type visa if my employer would be willing to do the paperwork, if there is an appropriate one for American-employer-London-office BUT there is no actual London office - just me in my flat - and I do not want to push them to do a visa application since they have been extremely generous already by letting me work from here in the first place. Plus there is no work reason for me to be here - most of the work visa ones that might apply to my situation expect a reason for the foreign company to require the worker to be in the UK - but I am not here for work, I am here for family and personal reasons. So I would much rather not go that route.

See also Representatives of overseas businesses
In order to work as a Sole representative of an overseas firm in the UK
Chapter 18.4 Sole representatives