C of N for Irish child of non-EU parent Northern Ireland

[GoodFun]

Can someone please share their experience if a certificate of nationality is required for a child born in Northern Ireland.

As per the 2004 Act, if non-EU parents have ILR in Northern Ireland, they should not be required to prove anything else however the passport guidance states that such parents need to furnish a certificate of nationality.

Has anyone come across this?

[Ben]

No first hand experience, sorry. However, I would recommend that you obtain a C of N for your child anyway. Makes things a lot easier for your child in future.

[strongbow]

search through these forums, there was one person who did this last year and obtained it.

[GoodFun]

Thanks for the replies.

I searched the forum and all the cases seem to be non-EU parents but born in Ireland.

Our case is different that our child was born in Northern Ireland and the Passport Office is refusing to interpret the 2004 Act correctly. They claim that the exemption to Section 6A (requirement for 3 years residence) for Northern Ireland is only applicable for EU and Swiss nationals whereas it it clearly applicable to us with ILR in the UK as the Act make no mention for EU and Swiss nationals. See bold section below.

Quote from the Act:

4.—The Principal Act is amended by the insertion of the following sections:

6A.—(1) A person born in the island of Ireland shall not be entitled to be an Irish citizen unless a parent of that person has, during the period of 4 years immediately preceding the person’s birth, been resident in the island of Ireland for a period of not less than 3 years or periods the aggregate of which is not less than 3 years.

(2) This section does not apply to—
...
(e) a person born in the island of Ireland—
(i) neither of whose parents was at the time of the person’s birth—
(I) an Irish citizen or entitled to be an Irish citizen,
(II) a British citizen,
(III) a person entitled to reside in the State without any restriction on his or her period of residence (including in accordance with a permission granted under section 4 of the Act of 2004), or
(IV) a person entitled to reside in Northern Ireland without any restriction on his or her period of residence.

[strongbow]

see this thread
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ationality

[JAJ]

Thanks for the replies.

I searched the forum and all the cases seem to be non-EU parents but born in Ireland.

Our case is different that our child was born in Northern Ireland and the Passport Office is refusing to interpret the 2004 Act correctly. They claim that the exemption to Section 6A (requirement for 3 years residence) for Northern Ireland is only applicable for EU and Swiss nationals whereas it it clearly applicable to us with ILR in the UK as the Act make no mention for EU and Swiss nationals. See bold section below.

The Passport Office is not responsible for interpreting nationality law. Go to the Department of Justice, apply for a Certificate of Nationality for the child. Any reason why you have a problem doing this?

You shouldn't have any problems with the Passport Office from that point.

[GoodFun]

Thanks for the link to the post. I have no issues with obtaining a certificate of nationality. The only thing is that the passport office is refusing to accept that 6A is not applicable to us and insisting that we need to prove residence in Northern Ireland.

As I have quoted above, as per the 2004 Nationality Act we should not be asked for this document and the passport office should read and interpret the Act correctly. The current Irish passport guidance is regarding Northern Ireland is totally illegal as it places additional requirements which are not required as per the relevant Citizenship Acts.

Children who are born in Northern Ireland to parents who are not Irish or British Citizens but have indefinite leave to remain in the UK should not have any additional requirement placed on them to prove their residence for the child's claim to Irish nationality.

This comes from the Good Friday Agreement in which both British and Irish Governments agreed to let people born in Northern Ireland to chose if they want to be British or Irish citizens or both. This is the reason for the exemption in the 2004 Act for Northern Ireland.

I have written to the Department of Justice to clarify my interpretation of the Act and awaiting a response.

[GoodFun]

Any future children you have born in Northern Ireland will automatically be British. Also, they'll automatically be Irish and you should be aware that the "3 year in 4" residence rule no longer applies to permanent residents of either the Republic of Ireland or the United Kingdom.

JAJ, I saw the your post above in the other thread. I am exactly in this situation however the Irish Passport Office is refusing to accept this interpretation. They claim this exemption for permanent residents is only for EU and Swiss nationals as only they can be classed as permanent citizens.

[JAJ]

JAJ, I saw the your post above in the other thread. I am exactly in this situation however the Irish Passport Office is refusing to accept this interpretation.

Once again. It's not their job to interpret nationality law. (they are part of the Department of Foreign Affairs not the Department of Justice). They are entitled to ask that you follow the correct procedure as they are not in a position to interpret United Kingdom immigration laws.
http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=263 (section F).


Stop wasting time and go to the DOJ to get the nationality certificate, problems will be ended from that point.

If you make a formal application to the DOJ for a nationality certificate they must issue it if the statutory requirements are met, otherwise you can go to court.

There is no point just writing to the DOJ, the law itself is clear, it's your job to follow the process set down to prove child's citizenship.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Informat ... 140709.pdf

[GoodFun]

Success!

Irish passport received. No certificate of nationality was issued by Department of Justice. They accepted my argument and the passport office was instructed to issue the passport.

Hopefully the passport guidance will be updated in due course to ensure that children born in Northern Ireland after 01 Jan 2005 to parents either of whom have Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK do not need a certificate of nationality.

[JAJ]

Probably a good idea to get a CofN for the future reference, in case the passport is lost or stolen.

It might be difficult to prove your ILR 20 years down the line.

[GoodFun]

Yes I plan to get a CofN in the near future.

I had applied for it but they did not issue me one saying it was not required and instructed the passport office accordingly.

[amgadhak]

Hi Goodfun!, i am in the same situation.i am not an EU member.i lived in N.Ireland for the last 5 years , we got a child last January (3 month before we got our UK permanent residency.)
Now my friends in Ireland( who are same nationality ) assured me that they got the Passport for their children without going through the citizenship.

my question is what documents did you send for support .My friends in Ireland went to the Garda (police) to stamp their application as a proof of reckonable residence!i don't think the police in N.Ireland will do such things.
many thanks

[GoodFun]

You will need to obtain a certificate of nationality for your child. Read the following link:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ationality

I did not need it since the child was born after we got ILR. In your case you will need the following as per the Passport Office website.

- The Child's Long Form Birth Certificate, and

-The Passport of that parent, and

-A Certificate of Nationality in respect of the child issued by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Burgh Quay, Dublin 2.

This certificate must be obtained in advance of making the passport application. To apply for a Certificate Declaration Form C must be completed by that parent. Copies of the Declaration form may be obtained from the Department of Justice, the Passport Office and may also be downloaded from their websites. Along with the Declaration application the parent needs to furnish evidence of lawful residence in Northern Ireland for at least 3 years, eg their passport as well as income tax, social insurance, driving licence, rent and utility bills.

[amgadhak]

your are so helpful !Many thanks!!