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Brit in Spain, Moroccan partner with expulsion, married soon

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TracyCK
Junior Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: UK, Morocco, Spain

Post by TracyCK » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:56 pm

Interesting comments while I was away today! I had considered the fact that we might get away with the unmarried partners angle, but since we plan to marry and because of my Fiance's complications, I haven't given it a lot of thought.

What about going through the UK route for a visit? We actually have tickets booked (via Madrid) for the 28th that I am not sure what to do with at the moment.

I do think that the Rabat Visa Office is very sympathetic towards us (I spoke with them today and actually told them that I felt that they had been more than fair and professional).

In addition, doesn't the EEA Family Permit cover entry into Gibraltar? I think it does.

I am fried, so clearly not thinking straight.

For evidence, I have an apartment lease in both our names from November 2008, I am a signatory on my Fiance's bank account here in Morocco, photos with friends and both our families and both my son's and my passports have so many entry and exit stamps for Morocco, there are barely any spare pages left.......

TracyCK
Junior Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: UK, Morocco, Spain

Post by TracyCK » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:56 am

It is 6:25am and I have been awake for about an hour now! Not sure if it's the mosquitos or my spaghetti-brain that's keeping me awake.. LOL

Have decided that today we must go to the Spanish Consulate and see what we can do there. Presumably, another route is to find which EU Schengen country does recognize unmarried partners and request a Visa from them? I also think that we should go back to the UK Embassy and beg for the EEA Family Permit but Rabat is so far away from where we live.

I love Morocco, but I really don't wish to be married here under Islam Law, I feel it is disadvatageous to women and I have my child to consider. My first preference is Gibraltar, but after that, I guess it is irrelevent.

I don't want to be separated for any time at all from my fiance - the 4 weeks that I just spent in the UK without him was horrible. I shouldn't have to, this is crazy.

My son is of school age and must go to school and receive a quality education as can be offered him in Europe and can't in Morocco.

My Fiance tells me that the fight that got him into prison in 2003 involved no drugs and no weapons. It was 4 Moroccans and some English guys and one police officer was hit with a chair that broke his arm, but this was nothing to do with my Fiance. I will have to look into this for him because it makes no sense to me that he got 3 years and so many subsequent problems for this. He just accepts that it's the way it is and always has been with the Moroccans and the Spaniards, but I don't have to.

TracyCK
Junior Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: UK, Morocco, Spain

Post by TracyCK » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:55 am

I am just looking at some of the things that I have bookmarked as useful documents over the past few weeks and have just read through the new Royal Spanish Decree. I am fairly sure that towards the bottom, new paragraph Nineteen - One - b covers unmarried partners.

http://www.ukgovabusesexpats.co.uk/Arti ... 0.2007.htm

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:34 am

Three things suggest to me that this will be a slow and sometimes difficult process.

(1) You are not married to your partner and you have only been living together for one year

(2) He has been convicted of a crime resulting in serious jail time

(3) He has been expelled from Spain

If the process is slow and difficult for even normal "simple" situations, these factors will tend to make it even slower for you.

Obie
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Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Post by Obie » Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:09 pm

Any offense this individual committed before becoming a family member of an EEA national, has to be looked at under the Public Policy criteria. if the member state wants to keep him out, they have to sho he continues to represent a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat affecting one of the fundamental interests of society, for his exclusion to continue to be legal.

The only downside is, he will be considered as Article 3 family member, rather than Article 2,which would have been the case if you were married.

Also , Spain appears to have issues with unmarried partners, for reasons best known to them.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

TracyCK
Junior Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: UK, Morocco, Spain

Post by TracyCK » Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:47 pm

Am currently sitting in the carpark outside Marjane (equivalent of Carrefour here) where I have just bought a new printer as mine refuses to play with me any more.

We went to the Spanish Consulate where they really didn't understand anything I was getting at at all. Decided we would have better luck at the Frontera which is only 20 minutes away, but if we go that route, we really need to go prepared, hence the printer.

Will now return home, print evidence of our relationship together (photos, etc) and both english and spanish copies of relevent documents regarding entering Europe as an EEA Family Member.

Perhaps we will return later on today to attempt this. If it is unsuccessful, we don't have an awful lot to lose. I will cross the border myself and go to Malaga where tomorrow I can submit a Notice to Marry at the UK Consulate there and start the process of marrying here in Morocco.

On the move again now so will post this before I lose my connection! LOL

SBT_Owner
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Post by SBT_Owner » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:16 pm

Good luck Tracy , keep us updated if you can .
Will now return home, print evidence of our relationship together (photos, etc)
If you have any bills etc under both your names i would take those as well ;)

Best of luck :D

sofii
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Post by sofii » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:39 pm

Hello Tracy, are you currently in Morocco, why don't you marry in Casablanca instead of all this headache, in my opinion it is easier for you if you can collect all document requested.

TracyCK
Junior Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: UK, Morocco, Spain

Post by TracyCK » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:18 pm

sofii wrote:Hello Tracy, are you currently in Morocco, why don't you marry in Casablanca instead of all this headache, in my opinion it is easier for you if you can collect all document requested.
Hi sofii,

Yes, I am in Morocco now, and should have got married in Gibraltar today. In order to get married here, I have to get a Certificate of No Impediment (CNI) from the Consulate in Malaga as I am resident in Spain. I do this by entering a Notice of Marriage (72 Euros), waiting 21 Days then returning to collect the CNI (72 Euros). I then take those to the British Consulate in Tangiers where they get recycled into essentially the same documents valid here in Morocco (another 72 and 45 Euros, I believe), but this only takes 24 hours. Then we can marry.

All other documents necessary I have here but some would need to be translated, I think. So it is doable, but a lot of running around with our lives still on hold.

We will do it, but I am thinking that if we can actually get my Fiance into Spain, then from there it should be a lot easier. It's at least worth a try. Am about to start printing things out now so not sure we will make it back to the Frontera tonight, perhaps better to leave it until morning now.

sofii
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Post by sofii » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:29 pm

Are you sure for the non impediment doc, can you not get it from the embassy here, did you ask them,??

TracyCK
Junior Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: UK, Morocco, Spain

Post by TracyCK » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:30 pm

Yes, I have spoken with both the Embassy in Rabat and the Consulate in Tangier. Because I am resident in Spain, the Notice of Marriage needs to go in there. Perhaps the CNI I can collect from Tangier at the end of 21 days - will double check that.

It's just more cost which we are trying to avoid at the moment as I will need to get the boat over to the mainland and then get to Malaga and back again. And of course the Consulate closes at 1:30pm and Spain is 2 hours ahead of Morocco at the moment.

TracyCK
Junior Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: UK, Morocco, Spain

Post by TracyCK » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:23 pm

I wanted to write a quick update.

If I wrote down all the events of the last few days, you wouldn't believe that one person could be so unlucky... LOL So I wont bother and will try to keep this brief and relevent to the topic.

We did go to the Cueta border to Spain on Wednesday and although it was somewhat traumatic and my fiance was not allowed entry, it was not a complete bust in terms of testing the process and gaining some information.

I argued for about an hour and a half with about 4 or 5 different Border Guards, one in particular who appeared to be in charge, and remained steadfast in stating calmly that my fiance was my Family Member and therefore had a right to enter with me, irrespective of the Expulsion and Conviction given that he was not a current threat, etc. I was not treated respectfully, was ordered out of the office even though I remained calm and the one officer was the one spurting steam from his ears. The debate continued in the walkway of the Frontera with people walking across to Spain in front of us. My Fiance stood quietly on the other side of the passport booth, panicking that I would be arrested, or that he would.

They tried to put me off by telling me that if he entered he would have to be arrested and complete his prison term as it was not completed. I asked them how on earth that could be true and as a separate issue, how does somebody get 3 years for a fight in a nightclub? I didn't even mention the 5 months that he paid for nothing as it was not the issue. I also asked them why, if this was true, did the Chief Police Officer for Foreigners in Estepona tell us not to worry, to get married and return 2 weeks later? They also told me that he also had an expulsion from Italy and that he had falsified a passport. I told them that he had never been to Italy, and the expulsion from Spain covered the entire Schengen area anyway. I laughed off the false passport since I knew categorically that just wasn't true. Apparently he hit a police officer, so it would appear that he had been pinned with that incident, but even in this were true, 3 years is still a tad excessive imo.

It didn't work because although they accepted that we were partners living together, they refused to accept him as my Family Member according to the law. I showed them where this is now written into the Spanish Law (Real Decreto 240/2006) but they interpreted it that we had to show them something official. I told them that if they accepted that we were partners in a long term relationship, then they MUST allow him entry as my Family Member. They did believe that we were partners but were not interested in any evidence that we had or might have had and ONLY wanted to see a LEGAL, Government issued document stating that we were together. The only other thing that they would have accepted is if he had been my son's father, but this is not the case.

So, in summary, the negative is that although Spain has written into its law that unmarried partners are considered Family Members, in practical terms, they haven't got their head around how you substatiate that claim without a marriage certificate.

The positive for me personally is the confirmation that once we are married, my Fiance will gain entry and the expulsion will be dispensed with. Apart from the initial insistence that he would need to be detained upon entry (they dropped this angle when I told them to go ahead if that was true), it was subsequently stated that there would be no problem if we were married and there was no argument that he did NOT pose any kind of current or serious threat to Public Security or Policy.

One Border Guard who was outside had come in to essentially beg me to drop it and let him get on with his job, as we were leaving, asked my Fiance for a word. He told him to go get married and come back then. He also commented on what a force I was (LOL) and said that he had a wife like that at home and Good Luck! :roll:

TracyCK
Junior Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: UK, Morocco, Spain

Post by TracyCK » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:57 pm

New simplified plan:

At this time, we are going to forget about going to live in the UK although we may try to go over for a visit to spend Christmas there, and down the road, maybe we will consider returning to live, but not now.

My son and I are going to go and stay with my father in Malaga and my son will go to school there. We will come back and forth to Morocco at weekends until my Fiance can join us in Spain after we are married.

I will look for work in the interim and try to get things back on the right track in that sense.

We will get our documents in order once again and get married here in Morocco, hopefully within 6 weeks from now. At this point, we should be able to apply for Spanish residency for my Fiance and concurrently, the almighty EEA Family Permit for a UK visit.

SBT_Owner
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Post by SBT_Owner » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:10 am

How was your weekend Tracy ?

I enjoy reading the updates and following the story .

I can but wish the very best for you , your son and the future husband :D . I love the fighting spirit you have . Keep on fighting and make sure life delivers everything that you want from it .

Take care .

TracyCK
Junior Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:20 pm
Location: UK, Morocco, Spain

Post by TracyCK » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:15 pm

RattleSnake wrote:How was your weekend Tracy ?

I enjoy reading the updates and following the story .

I can but wish the very best for you , your son and the future husband :D . I love the fighting spirit you have . Keep on fighting and make sure life delivers everything that you want from it .

Take care .
Well, our weekend last week was relatively relaxed but followed by quite a tough week with sporadic access to internet, hence my lack up updates!

My son spent a couple of days in Spain with his Nana and I went and spent a couple of days with my Fiance. On Monday, my son and I went to Malaga to my Father's house and spent the next few days getting things sorted in the house and otherwise. We have Empadroned and my son lucked on the last available place in his age group for the local school. Yesterday, we ordered a phone line with internet which is important to me.

To be honest, I am a little exhausted from it all, I returned to Morocco late last nite and will return, hopefully with some more things that we need in a couple of days.

I hate my family being so disjointed and it is hard to focus on moving forward with things in limbo. I was feeling a little sorry for myself to be honest, but today have had a couple of positive things happen that have lifted me back up a little, not the least being the possibility of some work when I get back to Spain. This will make a big difference in my ability to pay for our trips back and forth for the next couple of weeks, and also keep me more occupied and hopefully alleviate my frustration at the situation.

I just read through the report on the Directive from March this year, and I get so cross that in theory, my Fiance should be able to join me now as my co-habitating partner, but how on earth do you deal with an establishment that insists on seeing a legal document as proof of the relationship? How does one prove that you are in a 'durable relationship, duly attested', and exactly how does one define that? If rental contracts, photographs, bank signatory forms, and an appointment to marry with supporting documentation are all inadmissable, what on earth can you do?

Or perhaps the better question is, how do I push this point? Who can advise me? Should I return to the Spanish Consulate and insist ask for someone more knowledgeable on the Directive? Certainly my ability to fully exercise my rights of free movement are seriously hindered by the fact that my partner is not given entry to join me. If he had been allowed to enter Gibraltar, we would be married now with none of the frustration and difficulty that we are facing currently.

Anyway, another long post by Yours Truly, so will sign off now and post when I have more to tell :)
Last edited by TracyCK on Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Husband issued with an EEA FP via Surinder Singh and various complications :)
Original thread: http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=45808
Second thread: http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=309363

SBT_Owner
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Post by SBT_Owner » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:55 pm

It is a shame that people have to prove a relationship is real but i fully understand why , my sister was involved in a marrage to a guy she hardly knew , i think she knew what he was up to but expected him to magically fall in love with her once he got his visa , it turned out everything he told her was false and the marrage ended quickly , he got his visa though and is still in the country . With that going on and sham marrages (guys paying chicks to marry them) i think it makes the jobs of immigration people tough and makes it so much harder for geniune people to get what they need .

The same could be said about student visas and idiots setting up fake colleges and using fake documents , the clowns that abuse system just make it alot harder for everyone else .

Stay strong and show patience , i have a feeling you will get everything that you want :D 8) .

Good luck with the new job , if i need a loan i shall know who to send a begging private message to :lol: :wink: haha .

Take care

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