Irish citizenship for a child born in NI (to non-EU parents)

[rajumr]

Hello Folks,
I worked in Dublin for about 2 years and then moved to Belfast and have been working in Belfast for about 5 years. I have just got ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain) in UK.

My son was born in Belfast about 2 months ago, but I didn't have ILR when he was born.

My wife and I are non-EU nationals. My son currently holds the same nationality as we do.

I know my son is now eligible to get British citizenship, but is he eligible for Irish citizenship?
I thought he would be as I have been in 'Ireland' for the past 4 years. But on re-reading some of the clauses in Citizenship Act., it seems like the 4 year residency rule is applicable for residents of Republic Of Ireland, not Northern Ireland.

Have I interpreted it correctly?

If it is not possible to get Irish citizenship for him now, are the chances get any better after he gets British citizenship (He may then be considered as a British citizen born in Northen Ireland)?

Thank you

regards
Raju

[joesoap101]

I would say that your child is eligible based on the following:

D - Where a parent is a non national, other than an EU/EEA/Swiss national.

The child will qualify for Irish citizenship if, at the time of the birth of the child in the island of Ireland, one of his/her parents had reckonable residence in the island of Ireland during the four years immediately preceding the birth of the child. Reckonable residence is regarded as residence where he/she had been lawfully resident in the island of Ireland for a period of not less than three years, or periods the aggregate of which is three years. Periods of unlawful residence, periods of residence which were for the sole purpose of having an application for refugee status determined or periods of residence where permission was granted for the purposes of study are excluded from the determination of periods of reckonable residence.

The following documentation will be required :

- The Child's Long Form Birth Certificate.

- The Registration Card issued by the GNIB

- The Passport of that parent [The parent should also provide a detailed letter of explanation along with the passport indicating which pages contain Immigration stamps covering periods of reckonable residence].

If the Passport Office is unable to confirm the parent’s 3 years reckonable residence from the passport the parent will require to obtain a letter from GNIB, Burgh Quay, Dublin 2 setting out their residence history and confirming their reckonable residency qualification.

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=263

[rajumr]

Thank you joesoap101.

Thats very encouraging piece of info.

I was confused by the following quoted on http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/ ... c0004.html

----BEGIN QUOTE------
(5) A period of residence in Northern Ireland shall not be reckonable for the purposes of calculating a period of residence under section 6A—

(a) if—

(i) the person concerned is not during the entire of that period a national of a Member State, an EEA state or the Swiss Confederation, and

(ii) the residence of the person concerned in Northern Ireland during that period is not lawful under the law of Northern Ireland,

or

(b) if the entitlement of the person concerned to reside in Northern Ireland during that period is subject to a condition that is the same as or similar to a condition which, if applicable in respect of an entitlement to reside in the State, would, by virtue of subsection (4), render a period of residence in the State pursuant to such an entitlement not reckonable for the purposes of calculating a period of residence under the said section 6A.

----END QUOTE------

It seems to suggest that residence in Northern Ireland shall not be reckonable for non-EU/EEA/Swiss nationals.

Am I getting concerned for nothing? Appreciate your views.

Thanks
Raju

[archigabe]

The key word is 'And'...if Non-E.U,and unlawfully present in N.I, then residence is not reckoned...your child should be ok to apply for Irish citizenship.

[rajumr]

Ah..Thanks for pointing it out.

That simple word makes a lot of difference in our case.

Thank you

cheers
Raju

[JAJ]

Hello Folks,
I worked in Dublin for about 2 years and then moved to Belfast and have been working in Belfast for about 5 years. I have just got ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain) in UK.

My son was born in Belfast about 2 months ago, but I didn't have ILR when he was born.

My wife and I are non-EU nationals. My son currently holds the same nationality as we do.

I know my son is now eligible to get British citizenship, but is he eligible for Irish citizenship?
I thought he would be as I have been in 'Ireland' for the past 4 years. But on re-reading some of the clauses in Citizenship Act., it seems like the 4 year residency rule is applicable for residents of Republic Of Ireland, not Northern Ireland.

Have I interpreted it correctly?

If it is not possible to get Irish citizenship for him now, are the chances get any better after he gets British citizenship (He may then be considered as a British citizen born in Northen Ireland)?

Your son is an Irish citizen as you lived legally (other than for study or asylum claim) in the Republic of Ireland and/or Northern Ireland for 3 years out of the 4 years before he was born.

However, in order to get an Irish passport for him, you first need him to be issued with a Citizenship Certificate from the authorities in Dublin, using form C:
https://www.dfa.ie/uploads/documents/Pa ... nt%20c.pdf

also
http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=263

The Citizenship certificate needs to be issued by the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service in Dublin:
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Co ... %20Section

The Irish are quick to issue passports, but very slow to deal with citizenship issues, so I would strongly recommend you do the following:

1. Get your son's British citizenship first (although it has no bearing on him being an Irish citizen, it means he can have a British passport and travel more easily, also it means no problems accessing services in Northern Ireland).

2. If sending documents to Dublin, send certified copies as there is a high risk that originals will be lost or unobtainable for a long time.

3. It might be easiest to make the application for his citizenship certificate in person, if they will allow this. Have you got a visa to travel to Dublin, if you need one by nationality?

[rajumr]

Thanks JAJ.

You read my mind there. I was wondering which one to apply first.

I do need a visa to travel to Ireland. But I'll check dfa.ie and other sites to find whether I could appear in person to make the application in Dublin.

Thanks for advice on originals. They are important as I may need them in future for my citizenship application, etc. to prove my residency.

cheers
Raju

[rajumr]

Hello Folks,
I received my son's nationality certificate yesterday. The surprise is...It took just about a month to process the application!!

10/09/2008 - Posted the application from Belfast
17/09/2008 - Received a letter from INIS asking for two passport photographs of my son.
19/09/2008 - Posted the photographs
06/10/2008 - Received the national certificate

I thought it would take years to issue the certificate, after having heard from my friends who applied for naturalisation in Dublin.

Thank you all for providing useful information to me.

In case, some one needs the details about the application, here are the docs that I had sent with the application form.

(You need to prove that you have lived in Northern Ireland for atleast 3 years in the last 4 years prior to child birth)
(All copies are notarised by a solicitor in Belfast)
1. Copies of all pages of my passport & listing the pages that contained UK visas for my stay in Northern Ireland in a covering letter
2. My son's birth certificate
3. Original letter from my employer confirming my employment status in Northern Ireland
3. For each of the 4 years prior to my son's birth, (notarised) copies of the following
P60 form
Two electricity bills
atleast one bank statement
One TV Licence bill

cheers
Raju

[strongbow]

Hi,
Is there a separate section within INIS to send the application for getting the certificate of nationality. Can you kindly send on the postal address.

[rajumr]

Hello Strongbow,
I sent the application to the following address.

Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform,
Dundrum Road,
Tipperary Town

However, I have clearly marked that the application is for a child born in Northern Ireland. I think I have printed the following at the top of envelope
(Application for Certificate Of Nationality for a child born in Northern Ireland)

cheers
Raju

[strongbow]

@rajumr,
Thanks for the information. 2 more questions

1. Is there an application form for applying for certificate of nationality. If so, is this available online.

2. Do you know how long it takes for obtaining a RoI passport once you have the certificate of nationality.

[JAJ]

Hello Folks,
I received my son's nationality certificate yesterday. The surprise is...It took just about a month to process the application!!

10/09/2008 - Posted the application from Belfast
17/09/2008 - Received a letter from INIS asking for two passport photographs of my son.
19/09/2008 - Posted the photographs
06/10/2008 - Received the national certificate

I thought it would take years to issue the certificate, after having heard from my friends who applied for naturalisation in Dublin.

There's a big difference here. Your friends were applying to become Irish citizens. Your child was already an Irish citizen and you were just applying for evidence of that status.

Don't forget to get your son registered as British too.

Any future children you have born in Northern Ireland will automatically be British. Also, they'll automatically be Irish and you should be aware that the "3 year in 4" residence rule no longer applies to permanent residents of either the Republic of Ireland or the United Kingdom.

It would be simpler if you become British yourself, once eligible.

[rajumr]

Hello strongbow,
Please go through the replies from JAJ in this topic. JAJ has given the links to application form & the address to post to.

I'm not sure how long it takes to get ROI passport, but I guess it should take less time than what it takes to obtain the certificate.
I have heard that some post offices in Northern Ireland offer express service to obtain an ROI passport.

Hope this helps

cheers
Raju

[rajumr]

Hello JAJ,
Thanks for all your guidance.

Yes..I have applied for his British citizenship too through NCS last month.

Thanks for the clarification on "3 years in 4" rule. I now have permanent residence in UK.

Thank you

Raju

[amgadhak]

i am in the same situation! very helpful post. i hope the waiting time for my child to obtain the C of nationality is as short as one month!
thanks for all Rajumr , JAJ and a special thanks for GoodFun who guided me to this post!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Note that if you have an British child, you can apply for an Irish visa on the basis of that relationship. You should not have to pay a visa fee. My wife did this in relation to her british daughter when applying for an Irish visa.

[rahamat_234]

Hi all,

My brother is in ireland and soon he will be a proud father, as the child will be born in ireland will he be given ireland residency. My brother is on study visa from last 4 years.

If in case the child is not eligible for ireland residency, will he be allowed to stay in ireland with parents?

Thanks a lot for ur replies.

Thanks and Regards,
Rahamat.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

My brother is in ireland and soon he will be a proud father, as the child will be born in ireland will he be given ireland residency. My brother is on study visa from last 4 years.

What is the citizenship of the mother? What is her legal status in Ireland?

[rahamat_234]

Hi Guru,

Thanks for the reply, mother is also with student visa and she is there from little more than a year in ireland.

[rahamat_234]

mothers is an indian national

[eshortal]

Two of my sons were born in Ireland and carry Irish passports.
As their father can I apply for citizenship and passport?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You will not get Irish citizenship simply because your children have it. Maybe you can provide a bit more information about yourself so there is a chance people can help?

[doc44]

Hi Raj,

I know it is quite long when you applied for an Irish certificate of naturalisation for your child. But the system is still the same.

I have two questions if you could help. Were you posted the certificate or you collected it from Irish consulate or office. Secondly if they posted it to you then was the certificate small enough to pass through the door postal space.

I am asking this because I have applied for the certificate and have no idea when it will arrive. I am leaving the country in few weeks time and will be on holidays for about two weeks.
I am worried about the certificate. How it will arrive and if I won't be at home then what will happen. Thanks.

Regards.

[agniukas]

certificate of naturalation is a laminated A4 size. it is posted by reg post. if you are not there to collect it at home, you get a few days to collect it from your local post office. then if the cert is not collected lets say within 3-7 days, it is posted back to the sender.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Remember that if it is a certificate of naturalization, then you are already Irish when you receive it. The act of the Postman delivering it (or not if nobody is home) does not change your citizenship.