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Hi benifa,What does your partner do currently, in Ireland?
Note that she does not have to work full time in Holland. A part time job is also fine.benifa wrote:It should be noted that your partner will be expected to continue to pursue an economic activity when back in Holland.
As of 15 March 2006, a number of foreign nationals who wish to come to the Netherlands for a longer period and require a provisional residence permit must now take the civic integration examination abroad. This examination tests candidates’ basic knowledge of the Dutch language and of Dutch society. This takes place before the foreign national comes to the Netherlands.
We are not married. I'm currently in Ireland on a Stamp1A; however, I just lost my job and my permission to remain runs out at the end of Feb 2010, so we are planning to submit an application for 4EUFam. We are waiting until January because we have travels booked in November and December, plus, if it's refused, it should buy us time til the summer to make the move to the Netherlands.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: I assume you are not married.
You might want to consider applying for an Residence Card in Ireland (4EUFam in Ireland) so that you have documented proof of being together under European law. It may not matter, especially if you have a good paper trail behind you, but it is also free to apply.
It is hard to imagine why it would be refused, so long as the EU person was working.kabuki wrote:We are waiting until January because we have travels booked in November and December, plus, if it's refused, it should buy us time til the summer to make the move to the Netherlands.
You should read the Singh ruling carefully. It is written in terms of economic activity. (Usually the ECJ decisions are easy enough to read and have good content and explanations. They are also not too long).kabuki wrote:Is studying ok too? Or must she be working?
I'm worried about the application process as we only have been on the same lease for a year. Prior to this, I was living with her at her old apartment and was never put on the lease as we were looking to move. Also, part of the previous year was spent apart and me abroad as I was working towards finding a way to remain in Ireland, 1 month in the US and 3 months in the Netherlands.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:It is hard to imagine why it would be refused, so long as the EU person was working.kabuki wrote:We are waiting until January because we have travels booked in November and December, plus, if it's refused, it should buy us time til the summer to make the move to the Netherlands.
You should submit and them immediately request your passport back. In fact, you might want to submit right now but include only photocopies of your passport. Worst that happens is that they do not accept it. Best that happens is you get the Residence Card two months earlier.
To "pursue an economic activity" is usually interpreted to mean to be employed or to be self-employed. Remember, a part time job a a few hours a week is employment.kabuki wrote:Is studying ok too? Or must she be working? Cheers.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: Note that she does not have to work full time in Holland. A part time job is also fine.
Don't worry about any of that.kabuki wrote:I'm worried about the application process as we only have been on the same lease for a year. Prior to this, I was living with her at her old apartment and was never put on the lease as we were looking to move. Also, part of the previous year was spent apart and me abroad as I was working towards finding a way to remain in Ireland, 1 month in the US and 3 months in the Netherlands.
I fear being refused, which would really leave me hanging from Feb 2010 until June 2010, at the very least. Are current lease doesn't expire until June and we can't bail. If it takes them 6 months to respond, as many people have said, that will give us additional time. I'm worried because too many people have seemed to have run into many difficulties applying for a 4EUFam.
We have lots of emails. I spend lots of time with her family as her parents live in Ireland. We have gone on holiday with her parents. We have a lease of 1 year. But we don't have a joint bank account as I opted for a student account with a student credit card. I'm not sure I have all the phone records, as many conversations were in the US and on a prepaid mobile whilst in the Netherlands. Plus, I always used an on-line service for phone calls called nonoh. I can get statements from her family and out friends here. We have lots of pictures too.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:I partly agre with benifa, that you should not worry too much.
But since you are not married it is more difficult for you. Some countries assume that two years of history together is a golden number. If you have less than two years of documented history, then they may say no. (And you can appeal). So you need to make sure you have as much documentation about your history as possible. Old emails. Photos over time of you together. Vacation history together. Phone bills when you were calling each other. History of visiting each other's family. etc etc etc.
Do you have a joint bank account? Or joint credit cards (two cards, one account)?
benifa wrote:To "pursue an economic activity" is usually interpreted to mean to be employed or to be self-employed. Remember, a part time job a a few hours a week is employment.kabuki wrote:Is studying ok too? Or must she be working? Cheers.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: Note that she does not have to work full time in Holland. A part time job is also fine.
Also, the condition that the EU national should continue to pursue an economic activity upon their return to their home country may or may not be enforced. However, it may negatively affect your application for a Permanent Residence Card in five years time, if it is discovered that your Dutch partner did not pursue an economic activity upon her return to Holland since, in fact, the conditions of residence under the Singh ruling were not met.
That said, it may be argued that to be engaged in a course of study is also considered as to pursue an economic activity. I know of no case law which confirms this though.
EDIT: Apologies Mike, our posts crossed.
The above is in regards to Ireland. I haven't applied to the Netherlands yet as we are currently residing in Ireland and can't move until July/August.kabuki wrote:Thanks for all the help.
Here's an update:
I sumbitted an EU1 application in Feb. I'm still waiting for the decision. However, I do have to send in an update as my health insurance has changed. I'm currently working on the temp stamp 4, which is great.
I know. I'm not asking questions about Ireland here. I'm just referring to an early post of mine where I stated my current situtation. That's all. Thanks again.Rozen wrote:My link was to help with your questions about the Netherlands. That's all. I dunno much about Ireland issues.
Thanks for the info on fees. I was thinking the same, but I wasn't sure. I was curious about the laws in the UK as well, as I have applied to courses there, but I will need to receive a scholarship in order to afford it. I have applied to similar programs in Ireland and NL, and I would prefer NL. Although I do believe EU nationals are still charges home fees, but not sure. It may be just on the courses I was looking at.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:If you enter the Netherlands on the basis of European Free Movement law, then you must be treated in most areas identically to a citizen of the country.
If a citizen is entitled to some level of fees, then you would get the same.
The UK is a little sneaky here. They have decided that low tuition fees are only given to people who have been resident in the UK for at least 3 years. So most UK citizens get low tuition fees, and most citizens of other EU countries (who have not previously been resident in the UK for three years) must pay the higher fees. I suspect this would be crushed if challenged, but so far it stands.
Will your dutch partner also be moving to the Netherlands? How long have they been working in Ireland?