False documents-Tier 1 extn

amitc · Post by **amitc** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:40 pm

Topic Deleted

gotcha · Post by **gotcha** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:49 pm

amitc wrote:During his initial application he needed to show around Rs 50000 salary per month in India and thatâ€™s the reason he opted for false documents though he had genuine job in India with less salary.

That's not justification for being cheat. I'm surprized to see that, still you are representing him here, and seeking advice. I'm sure, his refusal is accompanies by some ban.

amitc · Post by **amitc** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:55 pm

I am not representing him or seeking advice for him. I am just curious to know what can be done in this situation or is there any option to get rid of this problem. He didnt get any ban mentioned in his letter but I am not 100% confirm as I didnt see the letter my self.

gotcha · Post by **gotcha** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:57 pm

amitc wrote:can anyone please suggests what can be done in this situation. Can he go for appeal? or can he go back India and apply fresh visa from there? If he goes back India then will it be a problem with same issue to apply new visa? Any one please feel free to write your opinion on this matter.

I think, that's seeking advice.

tvn_ramesh · Post by **tvn_ramesh** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:57 pm

Agree with GOTCHA...

such type of refusals also accompany BAN period ..

Please put the original wordings of refusal from HO to have right understanding of the situation..

niceguyinuk · Post by **niceguyinuk** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:41 pm

Hello friends how the homeoffice know he used deception in his initial application now? Havent they checked while during the initial application?

vks · Post by **vks** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:42 pm

amitc wrote:Hi Forum. I have come across a different case from my friend and just curious to know what options he has now. He has applied for HSMP extension with 85 points. He got his visa refused in 3 weeks. He received letter from HO with explanation that he got all 85 points to qualify but he has submitted false earnings documents (from India) during his initial application. I am not sure what kind false documents he has submitted but I think its either he or his consultant printed out pay slips/salary certificate to claim points or managed original pay slips from a company but he never worked there. He has master degree from UK and working in a good company. During his initial application he needed to show around Rs 50000 salary per month in India and thatâ€™s the reason he opted for false documents though he had genuine job in India with less salary. He is now confused what to do. Now senior members can anyone please suggests what can be done in this situation. Can he go for appeal? or can he go back India and apply fresh visa from there? If he goes back India then will it be a problem with same issue to apply new visa? Any one please feel free to write your opinion on this matter.

The forum should define some ethical guidelines, I guess. Also this kind of discussions should be stopped abruptly...

Vanadil · Post by **Vanadil** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:53 pm

Terms & Conditions:

There can be no 'discussion' or 'advice' regarding how to engage in illegal activities (such as but not limited to: how to illegally acquire copyrighted material, work permits, visas, passports or other documents), and no links to websites providing such information.

I would think this post will be locked soon.

Basically OP, your firend lied, you know he lied and I'm afraid he's probably now banned. Lesson learnt hopefully.

vks wrote:
amitc wrote:Hi Forum. I have come across a different case from my friend and just curious to know what options he has now. He has applied for HSMP extension with 85 points. He got his visa refused in 3 weeks. He received letter from HO with explanation that he got all 85 points to qualify but he has submitted false earnings documents (from India) during his initial application. I am not sure what kind false documents he has submitted but I think its either he or his consultant printed out pay slips/salary certificate to claim points or managed original pay slips from a company but he never worked there. He has master degree from UK and working in a good company. During his initial application he needed to show around Rs 50000 salary per month in India and thatâ€™s the reason he opted for false documents though he had genuine job in India with less salary. He is now confused what to do. Now senior members can anyone please suggests what can be done in this situation. Can he go for appeal? or can he go back India and apply fresh visa from there? If he goes back India then will it be a problem with same issue to apply new visa? Any one please feel free to write your opinion on this matter.
The forum should define some ethical guidelines, I guess. Also this kind of discussions should be stopped abruptly...

mvent00 · Post by **mvent00** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:56 pm

amitc wrote:Hi Forum. I have come across a different case from my friend and just curious to know what options he has now. He has applied for HSMP extension with 85 points. He got his visa refused in 3 weeks. He received letter from HO with explanation that he got all 85 points to qualify but he has submitted false earnings documents (from India) during his initial application. I am not sure what kind false documents he has submitted but I think its either he or his consultant printed out pay slips/salary certificate to claim points or managed original pay slips from a company but he never worked there. He has master degree from UK and working in a good company. During his initial application he needed to show around Rs 50000 salary per month in India and thatâ€™s the reason he opted for false documents though he had genuine job in India with less salary. He is now confused what to do. Now senior members can anyone please suggests what can be done in this situation. Can he go for appeal? or can he go back India and apply fresh visa from there? If he goes back India then will it be a problem with same issue to apply new visa? Any one please feel free to write your opinion on this matter.

As Ramesh has suggested, please post the entire letter here. It would also be helpful for others to see what happens if they do such silly things. I am sure he has a ban.

mno2uk · Post by **mno2uk** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:14 pm

Amitc - the people who have just answered here are no novices so please adhere to what has been posted here.

mvent00 wrote:
amitc wrote:Hi Forum. I have come across a different case from my friend and just curious to know what options he has now. He has applied for HSMP extension with 85 points. He got his visa refused in 3 weeks. He received letter from HO with explanation that he got all 85 points to qualify but he has submitted false earnings documents (from India) during his initial application. I am not sure what kind false documents he has submitted but I think its either he or his consultant printed out pay slips/salary certificate to claim points or managed original pay slips from a company but he never worked there. He has master degree from UK and working in a good company. During his initial application he needed to show around Rs 50000 salary per month in India and thatâ€™s the reason he opted for false documents though he had genuine job in India with less salary. He is now confused what to do. Now senior members can anyone please suggests what can be done in this situation. Can he go for appeal? or can he go back India and apply fresh visa from there? If he goes back India then will it be a problem with same issue to apply new visa? Any one please feel free to write your opinion on this matter.
As Ramesh has suggested, please post the entire letter here. It would also be helpful for others to see what happens if they do such silly things. I am sure he has a ban.

niceguyinuk · Post by **niceguyinuk** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:23 pm

i think this happened to OP and u r telling it happened to your friend..please be honest guys when you post something in this forum...tell exactly whats in the refusal letter..without good knowledge plz dont post anything..

immig.inf · Post by **immig.inf** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:47 pm

The bad guy got the punishment for what he did.

But this is amazing that UKBA kept the secret for such a long time and disclosed it at his extension.

One more thing is that why HO did not come to know at the first application? Is it his consultant who passed on this information to HO?

niceguyinuk wrote:i think this happened to OP and u r telling it happened to your friend..please be honest guys when you post something in this forum...tell exactly whats in the refusal letter..without good knowledge plz dont post anything..

niceguyinuk · Post by **niceguyinuk** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:02 am

i think OP is a fraud guy...HO never wait to tell someone that he/she did deception during the initial application..if they find anyone used deception during their application they can cancel the visa validity..

amitc · Post by **amitc** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:08 am

Topic Deletd

InUkOnHsmp · Post by **InUkOnHsmp** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:37 am

Hi amitc,

I have been silent on this topic till now, as I do agree with you, none of us are absolutely pure and I myself hate purists. One has to admit, there are no black and whites in the world, everyone has shades.

However, that said, I do think if he has realized he made a mistake, he should now be ready to face the consequences. As a friend, you should probably have advised him to come clean now, than opt for more chicanery and deception. On the contrary, you are trying to help him get away.

This is unacceptable behavior on your part. And funnily enough I do not feel you have any regrets, going by your last post.

Sorry to be cross, but I could not be anything else after reading your post.

tvn_ramesh · Post by **tvn_ramesh** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:01 pm

amitc wrote:Hi Guys!!!
Little update on this topic....
He refused to show me the letter from HO. He got one lawyer yesterday and going for appeal.

He told me his payslips are original from the company

but he never worked in that company and

he paid Income Tax on that income

so its not possible for HO to prove his documents false.

???Red Flags???

I think he is underestimating UKBA's reach.... Once HO smelled something fishy/suspecious.. they will look to the end..
its not just your friend will be shown the door but also the company..

gordon · Post by **gordon** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:11 pm

I don't see what would be gained in an appeal, unless the applicant intends brazenly to lie about not actually having worked at the company in the home country, thus compounding the offence. 'Genuine' documents should be genuine in all dimensions, and irrelevant references to the applicant's getting the employer to issue patently untrue payslips or possibly having paid income tax, are an insult to every right-minded person's intelligence.

I appreciate that this is about a person who has built a life here etc, but it is important not to conflate mistakes and lapses in judgment. Arranging and submitting falsified documents is not a mere mistake, but instead a calculated decision to do wrong, a failure in judgment with very severe consequences. Errors and lapses in good judgment are endemic to the human condition, undoubtedly, but the point is that we must accept that major ethical lapses come with consequences of comparable magnitude.

If ever any of the rest of us have felt slightly criminalised in the visa-application process, the way this case seem to be going should be adequate explanation. It's most unfortunate.

amitc wrote:Hi Guys!!!
Little update on this topic....
He refused to show me the letter from HO. He got one lawyer yesterday and going for appeal. He told me his payslips are original from the company but he never worked in that company and he paid Income Tax on that income so its not possible for HO to prove his documents false. During his initial application HO called up that company and verified but now that person (who varified him) is not working there anymore so when HO called again this time (may be they got doubt somehow) they found out the truth.
Anyway we should stop this topic as we are here to help genuine person. But if some one did mistake earlier we should also give him good advise because we are human being and human do mistakes. Every person do mistake or cheat in their life (doesnt matter minor or major)... If caught he is guilty and if not he is the King..

Post by **ChetanOjha** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:20 pm

Random Thought
Sometimes I really don't understand why people do all these things. Is it really worth? Going all the way to commit fraud, putting so many things in the line of fire, wasting so much money and efforts to do it. And in end..got ban for 10 years. And on top of that they request forum members to advice on their case (through their friends or whatever) and insulting intelligence of other people in this forum(who are genuinely try to get things done). If they are so smart why ask in forum after they are doomed. They didn't asked in forum before commiting fraud.

On the other hand I sometime think what I would do for a better future, money,lifestyle. If I "may" have a "chance" to get all these, by tweaking some document will I do it? Answer is obvious. So can't really blame OP for doing it. I have seen so many people forging papers to get HSMP and Tier-1. I personally feel very angry when people try to outsmart and bend system to their benefit. But that does not justify wrong doing.

Anyway, he is caught and now he is theif. So lets stone him. But is it fair? He has come into this forum asking for help. We all know he is banned for 10 years(may be). So does our reply help him anyway or add salt to the injury?

sunjay · Post by **sunjay** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:48 pm

I believe he's the same guy or posted this for the same guy who posted following post:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=47456

Both of these posts are regarding 10 year ban when employer verification failed somehow.

Post by **ChetanOjha** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:59 pm

People in this forum can hardly help such people. No point continuing this thread anymore.

amitc · Post by **amitc** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:16 pm

Sorry Sunjay its not the same person or posted for the same person as per your link.

Now people started thinking its me who got refusal for false docs. I already received few mails, offering help and suggestions. But its not meâ€¦.. And also I am not going to help or advise my friend. I was bit curious about the matter but now I think we should stop this topic...

amitc · Post by **amitc** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:18 pm

Thanks guys for your opinions and comments.

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False documents-Tier 1 extn

False documents-Tier 1 extn

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