what form for child registration MN1 or S2/S3

Harshid · Post by **Harshid** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:28 pm

Dear all,

I am eligible for Settlement (ILR) in March 2010. We just had a baby boy born to us before couple of months in August 2009. I have not register the child nor applied for his passport to Indian embassy yet. I am thinking on applying for MN1 registration directly after acquiring my PR in March 2010 as we do not have any travel plans till June 2010.

Just a quick note regarding MN1 from â€“ and its guidance in section 1.9 states to enter the child present nationality. Or if the child is stateless (without any nationality) application should be made on S2 or S3.

Would I have to declare my child stateless and fill S2 or S3 from, if I have not registered his birth with Indian embassy at the time of registering the child as British Citizen?

I was only trying to avoid the registration/passport/FLR/ILR fees & the paperwork (not to mention the traveling) associated with it.

Harshid · Post by **Harshid** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:13 pm

Can i please encourage all members on here (especially senior, sage, etc.) to kindly spare a few moments on my query about what form to use if the child is not registered with Indian embassy by the time he is eligible for British registration?

many many thanks in advance.

Post by **JAJ** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:27 pm

Harshid · Post by **Harshid** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:38 pm

Many thanks JAJ for the prompt response.

I literally have the MN1 to my hand at this moment and section 1.9 of that form ask's for child's present nationality.

Can i say his nationality is Indian even thought the child is not registered with the Indian embassy or should i leave that section blank?

Please advise.

Many thanks.

taliska · Post by **taliska** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:40 pm

Is the other parent a British citizen? If both are applying for settlement then it may be best just to wait and apply for the child to be registered as a British Citizen in march. If you apply now and both parents are on work permit you would have to apply for ILR for the child first then apply for naturalisation which is costly as would have to pay 2 fees. The child would take the nationality of it's mother at birth if the mother is not on ILR or a BC so the child is not 'stateless'

Post by **JAJ** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:15 am

taliska wrote:Is the other parent a British citizen? If both are applying for settlement then it may be best just to wait and apply for the child to be registered as a British Citizen in march. If you apply now and both parents are on work permit you would have to apply for ILR for the child first then apply for naturalisation which is costly as would have to pay 2 fees.

Child cannot get ILR now.

The child would take the nationality of it's mother at birth if the mother is not on ILR or a BC so the child is not 'stateless'

No that is wrong, and in any case, British law cannot dictate what foreign nationality (if any) that child takes.

As far as I understand, child will not become an Indian citizen until registered as such. Child is stateless meanwhile.

donpetuchi · Post by **donpetuchi** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:52 pm

Citizenship by Descent
Person born outside India on or after 10 December 1992 are considered as citizens of India if either of their parents is a citizen of India at the time of their birth

Although you have not formally registered the birth, your child is already an Indian citizen. See quote above

Harshid · Post by **Harshid** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:58 pm

Thankyou for the valuable information that the child is Indian even though he is not registred with Indian embassy.

JAJ- I am on work permit now and my wife is on dependent visa. we both have Indian Passports. Y do you think the child cannot get ILR.??

When i apply for ILR in March 2010, I can apply ILR for my wife and child as dependents. cant i? If my application is successful my dependants also gets ILR.

Please correct me if i am wrong

Many thanks in advance.

taliska · Post by **taliska** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:01 pm

when you apply for ILR you can apply for the child to be registered as a British Citizen in March.

Sorry didn't mean to say that you should apply for ILR(in my previous post) now for the child I meant you would have to apply for the child as a dependent whilst on work permit and then apply for registration of the child as a British Citizen when you get ILR. This would be too costly so best just to register the child when you get your ILR

JAJ if a child is born in England to someone on a temporary visa the child cannot be registered as a British citizen. The 1983 immigration act changed the rules so children born in the united kingdom would not automatically be entitled to citizenship and parents would have to be permanent residents to be then able to register a child as a British citizen. I child who lives with their indian parents who are here on work permits would be considered as indian by the HO, not stateless or else a lot more people even on temporary work permits would have children who would be entitled to register as British.

The UK is not like USA and France, Canada and some other countries who once a child is born on their soil the child becomes a citizen

Post by **John** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:25 pm

when you apply for ILR you can apply for the child to be registered as a British Citizen in March.

Well not quite. After one or both parents has got their ILR, and no doubt the child gets their ILR at the same time, then the born-in-the-UK child can be Registered as British.

JAJ if a child is born in England to someone on a temporary visa the child cannot be registered as a British citizen

You are confusing two issues, so what you say is liable to confuse. The place of the birth is factual, so we know whether or not the child was born in the UK. So once one or both parents get ILR then the born-in-the-UK child can be Registered as British.

Accordingly, say mother visits the UK and unexpectedly give birth early, leaves the UK, and months or years later comes back to the UK on say HMSP etc., and ends up with ILR, well yes, the born-in-the-UK child can be Registered as British even though their mother was just a visitor when she gave birth.

Post by **JAJ** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:33 pm

taliska wrote:. I child who lives with their indian parents who are here on work permits would be considered as indian by the HO, not stateless or else a lot more people even on temporary work permits would have children who would be entitled to register as British.

The Home Office has no say on whether a child is Indian or not. In any case, even if a UK born child is stateless, child does not have any entitlement to registration until the age of 5.

Harshid · Post by **Harshid** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:44 pm

ust to let you know guys, the child is not an Indian citizen by descent unless his birth is registered at the Indian embassy with in one year of this birth.

Please see the following details which i found on ministry of home affairs website, Govt of India
"By Descent (section 4)

A person born outside India on or after 26th January 1950 but before 10th December 1992 is a citizen of India by descent, if his father was a citizen of India at the time of his birth. A person born outside India on or after 10th December 1992, is considered as a citizen of India if either of his parents is a citizen of India at the time of his birth. From 07th January 2004, a person born outside India shall not be a citizen of India by virtue of this Section, unless his birth is registered at an Indian consulate within one year of the date of birth or with the permission of the Central Government, after the expiry of the said period. An application, for registration of the birth of a minor child, to an Indian consulate under Section 4(1) shall be made in Form I and shall be accompanied by an undertaking in writing from the parents of such minor child that he or she does not hold the passport of another country."
_________________

keshgrover · Post by **keshgrover** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:38 pm

Harshid wrote:ust to let you know guys, the child is not an Indian citizen by descent unless his birth is registered at the Indian embassy with in one year of this birth.

Please see the following details which i found on ministry of home affairs website, Govt of India
"By Descent (section 4)

A person born outside India on or after 26th January 1950 but before 10th December 1992 is a citizen of India by descent, if his father was a citizen of India at the time of his birth. A person born outside India on or after 10th December 1992, is considered as a citizen of India if either of his parents is a citizen of India at the time of his birth. From 07th January 2004, a person born outside India shall not be a citizen of India by virtue of this Section, unless his birth is registered at an Indian consulate within one year of the date of birth or with the permission of the Central Government, after the expiry of the said period. An application, for registration of the birth of a minor child, to an Indian consulate under Section 4(1) shall be made in Form I and shall be accompanied by an undertaking in writing from the parents of such minor child that he or she does not hold the passport of another country."
_________________

Harshid I agree with you as I have gone through same stuff recently. Your child will be considered as Indian citizen regardless weather or not s/he has been registered with Indian authorities. When you apply for his/her citizenship you can write nationality as Indian. My nephew got BC through same way. WITHOUT any problem using from MN1.

Regards.

Harshid · Post by **Harshid** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:42 pm

Thanks Keshgrover,

but i find it difficult to digest that a child's present nationality would be classed as Indian without registering the childs at Indian emabssy, when the ministry of home affairs, Govt of India website says otherwise, especially for child born outside India after 7th Jan 2004..!

All i am trying to understand what's the proof/evidence to support the argument that the child is Indian, if i put him as Indian on the MN1 form

Can someone go in more detail on this one please.?
Many thanks.

keshgrover · Post by **keshgrover** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:10 pm

Harshid wrote:Thanks Keshgrover,

but i find it difficult to digest that a child's present nationality would be classed as Indian without registering the childs at Indian emabssy, when the ministry of home affairs, Govt of India website says otherwise, especially for child born outside India after 7th Jan 2004..!

All i am trying to understand what's the proof/evidence to support the argument that the child is Indian, if i put him as Indian on the MN1 form

Can someone go in more detail on this one please.?
Many thanks.

I don't think so they do go in that much details. However, you can still confirm with HO over the phone to double check.

Regards

Post by **JAJ** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:44 am

keshgrover wrote: I don't think so they do go in that much details. However, you can still confirm with HO over the phone to double check.

What if the HO helpline gives wrong advice? (happens often)

Harshid · Post by **Harshid** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:36 pm

I fully agree with you JAJ, cant rely on oral advice for such senario.,
Need something in black and white.

Still cant belive if no one had been in a situation like mine..or at least no one seems to have a clear answer on here.

All i want to know, what should i put for child's present nationality on MN1 form if i have not registered child's birth with Indian embassy?

Again is it a mandatory requirement to fill in child's present nationality in section 1.9 of MN1. can i leave it blank?

Kind Regards

f2k · Post by **f2k** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:36 pm

You can put stateless as this your childs current status. also i dont think they actually check what the nationality is

Post by **JAJ** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:57 pm

f2k wrote:You can put stateless as this your childs current status. also i dont think they actually check what the nationality is

Child's nationality (or lack thereof) is irrelevant for section 1(3). You could put down "None (probably eligible for Indian citizenship but not yet registered)"

Post by **John** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:41 pm

JAJ, that makes total sense to me.

Harshid, I think you are concerned about something that is really not worth worrying about.

Harshid · Post by **Harshid** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:46 pm

Gents,

Yes, that seems like a professional approach. I will do the same.

Many Many thanks for your time !

aaeran · Post by **aaeran** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:30 pm

Hi Harshid,

I am in similar situation as you were at the time of registering your child' birth.

Please could you advise what did you finally mention as your child's nationality on MN1.

Regards,

Ankur

Mata · Post by **Mata** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:29 am

JAJ wrote:Child's nationality (or lack thereof) is irrelevant for section 1(3). You could put down "None (probably eligible for Indian citizenship but not yet registered)"

John wrote:JAJ, that makes total sense to me. Harshid, I think you are concerned about something that is really not worth worrying about.

What if the child was born in the UK to parents of different nationalities (Malawi and Jamaica) who were were not yet settled at the time the child was born? Parents now have ILR, but not married. Child does not have any passport. What would be the present nationality of the child for the purpose of section 1.9 on the MN1?

Post by **John** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:36 am

What would be the present nationality of the child for the purpose of section 1.9 on the MN1?

Well not just for the form MN1 ! Simply what is their nationality?

Needless to say I have no knowledge of the nationality laws of Malawi and Jamaica, but you need to check whether nationality of those countries has been inherited from the relevant parent.

However a quick look on the internet seems to confirm that the child has the citizenship of both Malawi and Jamaica, so if your own research confirms that, enter the names of those two countries in section 1.9 of the form MN1. It is not necessary to have a passport of a country in order to have its citizenship, so the lack of passport at the moment is irrelevant.

Insomnia · Post by **Insomnia** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:15 pm

John wrote:
What would be the present nationality of the child for the purpose of section 1.9 on the MN1?
Well not just for the form MN1 ! Simply what is their nationality?

Needless to say I have no knowledge of the nationality laws of Malawi and Jamaica, but you need to check whether nationality of those countries has been inherited from the relevant parent.

However a quick look on the internet seems to confirm that the child has the citizenship of both Malawi and Jamaica, so if your own research confirms that, enter the names of those two countries in section 1.9 of the form MN1. It is not necessary to have a passport of a country in order to have its citizenship, so the lack of passport at the moment is irrelevant.

Hi there!

I have similar situation right now. I have got ILR last month and i got 2 kids born here never registrered anywhere at all. My Mrs from a different Nationality as well. she does not sort her status out yet.
My question is here shall i use form MN1 or S2, S3 (Stateless) as both kids not registered at any embassy of their parents homeland.

They about to start school next month. How about their Referees , who can be ? Are the teachers can do that easily or GP because all the time different doctors see them. I have this problem , anyone help me in this matter please....

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what form for child registration MN1 or S2/S3

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