Tier-1(G) Min earnings-£25k;min quali: Back to Graduate??

[lilly09]

Is anyone going to explain to me why are you so enthusiastic about this, maybe I've not understood it right?

It's fairly obvious why it's a good thing, by increasing the minimum salary requirement it will reduce the number of dross immigrants who end up working in Tescos.

THe truth right now is that the UK doesn't need immigration to anywhere near the same extent as we've had for the last 5-10 years following Labour's open door policy which meant that they flooded the labour market.

As you've got a degree, you can go home and earn a good wage, get experience and a better than average wage at home and help improve your home country instead of contributing to the brain drain.

Whats the avarage salary in the UK?

How can they award no points to anyone earning 30K pa?

Oh and trust me, you cant get that by working in Tescos.

The average salary in the UK for full time employees is actually around £32k. I would personally have the minimum limit as this and not the £25k that they're mentioning.

And no you can't get buy working in Tesco's. But right now we've got 20% of 16-24 year olds in this country unemployed and a fair chunk of those can't get jobs in supermarkets because immigrants are doing their 2nd and 3rd jobs in there to send more money back home.

I dnt care about any of that.

I just finished uni and got myself a PSW which will last me 2 years.

Regardless of the market n whatever, I got myself a job soon as I graduated which very few of my fellow student friends could do) and it is in my own field. Unfortunately, they wont offer me top notch salaries of 40+ with one or two years of experience and getting around the avarage salary that you mentioned above will give me very little points if any if this new proposed scheme is accepted.

So does that mean even though I have a job and at the start of my career I have to leave the UK?

[meats]

It's fairly obvious why it's a good thing, by increasing the minimum salary requirement it will reduce the number of dross immigrants who end up working in Tescos.

THe truth right now is that the UK doesn't need immigration to anywhere near the same extent as we've had for the last 5-10 years following Labour's open door policy which meant that they flooded the labour market.

As you've got a degree, you can go home and earn a good wage, get experience and a better than average wage at home and help improve your home country instead of contributing to the brain drain.

Whats the avarage salary in the UK?

How can they award no points to anyone earning 30K pa?

Oh and trust me, you cant get that by working in Tescos.

The average salary in the UK for full time employees is actually around £32k. I would personally have the minimum limit as this and not the £25k that they're mentioning.

And no you can't get buy working in Tesco's. But right now we've got 20% of 16-24 year olds in this country unemployed and a fair chunk of those can't get jobs in supermarkets because immigrants are doing their 2nd and 3rd jobs in there to send more money back home.

I dnt care about any of that.

I just finished uni and got myself a PSW which will last me 2 years.

Regardless of the market n whatever, I got myself a job soon as I graduated which very few of my fellow student friends could do) and it is in my own field. Unfortunately, they wont offer me top notch salaries of 40+ with one or two years of experience and getting around the avarage salary that you mentioned above will give me very little points if any if this new proposed scheme is accepted.

So does that mean even though I have a job and at the start of my career I have to leave the UK?

If you don't qualify for a visa then yes, the same as would happen to a UK national if they went abroad.

[lilly09]

Whats the avarage salary in the UK?

How can they award no points to anyone earning 30K pa?

Oh and trust me, you cant get that by working in Tescos.

The average salary in the UK for full time employees is actually around £32k. I would personally have the minimum limit as this and not the £25k that they're mentioning.

And no you can't get buy working in Tesco's. But right now we've got 20% of 16-24 year olds in this country unemployed and a fair chunk of those can't get jobs in supermarkets because immigrants are doing their 2nd and 3rd jobs in there to send more money back home.

I dnt care about any of that.

I just finished uni and got myself a PSW which will last me 2 years.

Regardless of the market n whatever, I got myself a job soon as I graduated which very few of my fellow student friends could do) and it is in my own field. Unfortunately, they wont offer me top notch salaries of 40+ with one or two years of experience and getting around the avarage salary that you mentioned above will give me very little points if any if this new proposed scheme is accepted.

So does that mean even though I have a job and at the start of my career I have to leave the UK?

If you don't qualify for a visa then yes, the same as would happen to a UK national if they went abroad.

Aw and why wouldnt I exactly qualify?

Cos I dnt make £50,000 a year?

[meats]

The average salary in the UK for full time employees is actually around £32k. I would personally have the minimum limit as this and not the £25k that they're mentioning.

And no you can't get buy working in Tesco's. But right now we've got 20% of 16-24 year olds in this country unemployed and a fair chunk of those can't get jobs in supermarkets because immigrants are doing their 2nd and 3rd jobs in there to send more money back home.

I dnt care about any of that.

I just finished uni and got myself a PSW which will last me 2 years.

Regardless of the market n whatever, I got myself a job soon as I graduated which very few of my fellow student friends could do) and it is in my own field. Unfortunately, they wont offer me top notch salaries of 40+ with one or two years of experience and getting around the avarage salary that you mentioned above will give me very little points if any if this new proposed scheme is accepted.

So does that mean even though I have a job and at the start of my career I have to leave the UK?

If you don't qualify for a visa then yes, the same as would happen to a UK national if they went abroad.

Aw and why wouldnt I exactly qualify?

Cos I dnt make £50,000 a year?

I said if you don't qualify then you won't get a visa, i didn't say why you would or wouldn't qualify in 2 years time as no one knows what the rules will be then.

[push]

Nobody needs to get worked up about it. What is good for a person may not be so good for others. Please bear in mind that the purpose of these recommendations is to ensure that the immigration does not have a negative impact on the residents and that only who are needed for the growth of the economy are allowed.

That said, the MAC recommendations clearly say that they do want to attract those who are highly skilled and at the same time those who although enter through the highly skilled route and end up taking jobs meant for resident low/medium skilled manpower.

Re questions raised re upping the min earning requirement, I guess market remuneration is a fair and quantifiable assessment of how skilled the role is and what is the demand supply gap. Re those on Student VISA and then moving on to PSW and Tier-1 route - (1) Student VISA does not come with a guarantee to work in UK, (2) If even after working in UK for 2 years one can not meet the UK Average earnings benchmark (I am not commenting on the appropriateness of the level of the benchmark here), then it would not be incorrect that the market does not see such a person as highly skilled and is not willing to pay the premium. I am not trying to be judgmental here but just providing a perspective to the MAC recommendations.

Lastly, if you have any doubts about earning potential of those who are Bachelor Degree holders - look at the following table (should be an eye opener)

[mno2uk]

In my opinion, its a good criteria as its already working rather than going for the new recommendations. Moreover, someone who is already earning that have amount in their own country ( and almost obvious will be having family and extensive social circle/life would not be interested in it).

The new recommendations are discouraging and it will not help the govt as such as there are very few such candidates and plus if at all there are a few then that won't be young blood - which is what the govt. of various developed nations are looking at when it comes to immigration visas.

===========
Good luck to all
===========

Actually it is all about what kind of applicants Government is targeting.
Ask yourself who do you prefer to migrate to your country in that kind of economical crises. A new graduate ? or experienced one.. According to MAC recommendations pdf to gov .. they are obviously trying to have experience well earned applicants. Because it is not so much .. they need to lower the educational requirement to Bsc. We all wait and see what will happen in couple of months.

[meats]

The new recommendations are discouraging and it will not help the govt as such as there are very few such candidates and plus if at all there are a few then that won't be young blood - which is what the govt. of various developed nations are looking at when it comes to immigration visas.

Rubbish, immigration to the UK is meant to benefit the UK. That cannot be said of about 90% of immigrants to the UK during this Labour government's time in power. The 'young blood' as you put it will invariably be starting off at the same position as UK graduates, so why do we need them when we have sufficient UK graduates going for the same jobs? With an earning threshold of £25k+ then more often than not the immigrant will have had a few years experience, which will be of more value to the UK than a fresh graduate of which we have plenty enough already.

[lilly09]

The new recommendations are discouraging and it will not help the govt as such as there are very few such candidates and plus if at all there are a few then that won't be young blood - which is what the govt. of various developed nations are looking at when it comes to immigration visas.

Rubbish, immigration to the UK is meant to benefit the UK. That cannot be said of about 90% of immigrants to the UK during this Labour government's time in power. The 'young blood' as you put it will invariably be starting off at the same position as UK graduates, so why do we need them when we have sufficient UK graduates going for the same jobs? With an earning threshold of £25k+ then more often than not the immigrant will have had a few years experience, which will be of more value to the UK than a fresh graduate of which we have plenty enough already.

You, ''meats'' are you actually british or just retarded? Srsly whats good about this scheme if you are an immigrant yourself?

[meats]

The new recommendations are discouraging and it will not help the govt as such as there are very few such candidates and plus if at all there are a few then that won't be young blood - which is what the govt. of various developed nations are looking at when it comes to immigration visas.

Rubbish, immigration to the UK is meant to benefit the UK. That cannot be said of about 90% of immigrants to the UK during this Labour government's time in power. The 'young blood' as you put it will invariably be starting off at the same position as UK graduates, so why do we need them when we have sufficient UK graduates going for the same jobs? With an earning threshold of £25k+ then more often than not the immigrant will have had a few years experience, which will be of more value to the UK than a fresh graduate of which we have plenty enough already.

You, ''meats'' are you actually british or just retarded? Srsly whats good about this scheme if you are an immigrant yourself?

I'm British and i want what's best for Britain. That is what immigration is about, getting the best for the country regardless of what country it is.

[lilly09]

The new recommendations are discouraging and it will not help the govt as such as there are very few such candidates and plus if at all there are a few then that won't be young blood - which is what the govt. of various developed nations are looking at when it comes to immigration visas.

Rubbish, immigration to the UK is meant to benefit the UK. That cannot be said of about 90% of immigrants to the UK during this Labour government's time in power. The 'young blood' as you put it will invariably be starting off at the same position as UK graduates, so why do we need them when we have sufficient UK graduates going for the same jobs? With an earning threshold of £25k+ then more often than not the immigrant will have had a few years experience, which will be of more value to the UK than a fresh graduate of which we have plenty enough already.

You, ''meats'' are you actually british or just retarded? Srsly whats good about this scheme if you are an immigrant yourself?

I'm British and i want what's best for Britain. That is what immigration is about, getting the best for the country regardless of what country it is.

Oh I see now.....

[vinata]

While i agree that the proposed scheme is not particularly good for immigrants, i believe it is fair. It is also obvious that there would be fewer applicants who could qualify for the new criteria, but in the same time only those who are really highly skilled would be able to apply.

I have seen too many low qualified people or non-qualified at all who simply exploited the system in order to work, and in fact, most of them earn now between 17,000 and 25,000. So, do they really highly skilled? The answer is obvious.

I believe it all happened because the government had an objective to let younger people into the country so they can pay tax and support retiring persons in the UK. Now, the shift is towards skills and experience, no matter whether you are young or not. In a couple of years, the emphasis could be on something else, but it is highy unlikely the immigration system would become more comfortable for immigrants in the future.

The reality is that (if you read the polls) once you are an immigrant, you are happy with immigration rules because they offer you a route to a citizenship. But once you are a citizen, you would no longer favour the immigration system, as all newcommers are likely to compete with you and take out your jobs. And, believe me, most of my friends with indefinite leave to remain now think that immigration levels should be substantially reduced and immidiately. So, this issue is twofold and the only way to balance this situation is to introduce more effective immigration barriers. I could be wrong, but this post comes from my experience.

[gordon]

What's clear is that limiting T1 to those with master's degrees or higher, excluded more of the high-earners (earnings proxy for skill or experience) than was desirable. I agree with meats's assessment that the system is aiming to attract graduates with demonstrated skill/experience, rather than young graduates from abroad without experience, which may be more speculative. At any rate, do recall that the earnings bands (and the country bands' multipliers) have not moved in three years, and have not been adjusted for the sterling depreciation or inflation. The proposed changes might overshoot the mark a bit, but not by very much across the spectrum, and certainly not by the time the changes are implemented. That said, I will note that the increased weighting of skill or experience in money terms may work well when drawing people from the private sector, but it might be troublesome for people outside the private sector (at least, from where I stand in the HE sector).

The crucial element is that the MAC have made these recommendations to select out those applicants whom they might consider more marginal in terms of their contribution to the UK economy or the labour force. But there's nothing that prevents a student who moves on to PSW from thereafter moving into tier 2, if he doesn't qualify for tier 1. Maybe all that is saying is the system would classify such a graduate as skilled (if he can get into tier 2), but not sufficiently highly skilled to qualify for tier 1. It's not the end of the world.

I'll be interested to see how the recommendations are integrated into policy.

[Sky_High]

. .....And, believe me, most of my friends with indefinite leave to remain now think that immigration levels should be substantially reduced and immidiately. So, this issue is twofold and the only way to balance this situation is to introduce more effective immigration barriers. I could be wrong, but this post comes from my experience.

In this case your friends should request HO to cancel their ILR and pack their bags and go home.
I am not against this new proposal. UK has full right to change immigration critria. But these ruls should not apply to immigrants already in the country. If you read MAC's report you can see that UK still wants more young people. Fact is that UK population is getting older and we all live in a welfare state so we need more young people to pay our pension or UK can not maintain its status of a welfare state. Some one 55 years old with good experience and 50+ earnings etc could get T1 and citizenship but just after working 10 years he/she will be another penshioner. (May need to use more NHS services, care services ......etc) but some one 25 years old who is BA/BSC and could earn 25K+ (After getting few years experience it will increase) and has 40 year to retire, he will pay a lot more taxes and contribute more before he/she gets retire.
PWS: I think that MAC report is right. A lot of people are working in unskilled positions. Believe me if govt accept MAC suggestion that students first get a job offer in short period and than apply for PWS T1 than there will be huge reduction in these visas. If you do not have right to work in first place, what ever you tell to potential employer, you will not be invited for interview. This is going to be egg and hen situation. Employer wants VISA, HO wants work. So again this is a clever way of stopping visas in this catagory. Because fee from international students runs British universutues so they will not say that they are stopping this scheme.
Every one is in confusin. One way UK need more immigrants to keep progressing, paying pension, getting young people. Go to hosiptal, go to care home, go to banks or financial centers, go to IT companies, go any where and you will see that immigrants are contribution and working hard for UK. If Govt doe not believe that immigration is creating billions for UK they will stop it next morning. On the other hand UK is small country and can not afford more people. Immigration is causing huge pressure on schools, NHS and other services. ..................... So no one know the solution of immigration.

[MJNair]

God! Another change..
I hope they woun't apply these changes for people already in the UK on HSMP/Tier 1.
Does anybody think otherwise??
Even when you consider UK earnings, the salary in different parts of the country differ for the same skill and same experience. Like the salary in London is a lot more when compared to other places.
Maybe the MAC should consider this and give a % uplift for people earning from postcodes other than the London ones.

[push]

God! Another change..
I hope they woun't apply these changes for people already in the UK on HSMP/Tier 1.
Does anybody think otherwise??

Not really, apart from the earnings threshold

Even when you consider UK earnings, the salary in different parts of the country differ for the same skill and same experience. Like the salary in London is a lot more when compared to other places.
Maybe the MAC should consider this and give a % uplift for people earning from postcodes other than the London ones.

That certainly is a good suggestion but again reflects the demand supply relationship. The problem with the argument is that it will then open floodgates for various such demands - IT guys would say they dont earn as much as Bankers and those in real economy would cry foul as well. Where do you draw the line then? Everything can not be so objective

[confusedhsmp]

While i agree that the proposed scheme is not particularly good for immigrants, i believe it is fair. It is also obvious that there would be fewer applicants who could qualify for the new criteria, but in the same time only those who are really highly skilled would be able to apply.

I have seen too many low qualified people or non-qualified at all who simply exploited the system in order to work, and in fact, most of them earn now between 17,000 and 25,000. So, do they really highly skilled? The answer is obvious.

I believe it all happened because the government had an objective to let younger people into the country so they can pay tax and support retiring persons in the UK. Now, the shift is towards skills and experience, no matter whether you are young or not. In a couple of years, the emphasis could be on something else, but it is highy unlikely the immigration system would become more comfortable for immigrants in the future.

The reality is that (if you read the polls) once you are an immigrant, you are happy with immigration rules because they offer you a route to a citizenship. But once you are a citizen, you would no longer favour the immigration system, as all newcommers are likely to compete with you and take out your jobs. And, believe me, most of my friends with indefinite leave to remain now think that immigration levels should be substantially reduced and immidiately. So, this issue is twofold and the only way to balance this situation is to introduce more effective immigration barriers. I could be wrong, but this post comes from my experience.

Well said!

HO implemented all recommendations by MAC for Tier 2 recently. So expect everything to change, including Degree. Its all a spin Push!

By January we will be out of Recession. Alan Johnson will Appear on Andrew Marr Show and announce that they are now lowering the bar to bachelors degree but placing tougher requirement on Earnings. Not forgetting that -> 'immigrants should "play" by the rules.'

HUH!

[silverTR]

so people , when should we expect the changes?

[push]

While i agree that the proposed scheme is not particularly good for immigrants, i believe it is fair. It is also obvious that there would be fewer applicants who could qualify for the new criteria, but in the same time only those who are really highly skilled would be able to apply.

I have seen too many low qualified people or non-qualified at all who simply exploited the system in order to work, and in fact, most of them earn now between 17,000 and 25,000. So, do they really highly skilled? The answer is obvious.

I believe it all happened because the government had an objective to let younger people into the country so they can pay tax and support retiring persons in the UK. Now, the shift is towards skills and experience, no matter whether you are young or not. In a couple of years, the emphasis could be on something else, but it is highy unlikely the immigration system would become more comfortable for immigrants in the future.

The reality is that (if you read the polls) once you are an immigrant, you are happy with immigration rules because they offer you a route to a citizenship. But once you are a citizen, you would no longer favour the immigration system, as all newcommers are likely to compete with you and take out your jobs. And, believe me, most of my friends with indefinite leave to remain now think that immigration levels should be substantially reduced and immidiately. So, this issue is twofold and the only way to balance this situation is to introduce more effective immigration barriers. I could be wrong, but this post comes from my experience.

Well said!

HO implemented all recommendations by MAC for Tier 2 recently. So expect everything to change, including Degree. Its all a spin Push!

By January we will be out of Recession. Alan Johnson will Appear on Andrew Marr Show and announce that they are now lowering the bar to bachelors degree but placing tougher requirement on Earnings. Not forgetting that -> 'immigrants should "play" by the rules.'

HUH!

I think you meant vinata. I am not really taking any sides here-Just putting the debate in some perspective.

[mvent00]

Well said!

HO implemented all recommendations by MAC for Tier 2 recently. So expect everything to change, including Degree. Its all a spin Push!

By January we will be out of Recession. Alan Johnson will Appear on Andrew Marr Show and announce that they are now lowering the bar to bachelors degree but placing tougher requirement on Earnings. Not forgetting that -> 'immigrants should "play" by the rules.'

HUH!

I am sure HO would not implement these recommendations as these are, because by doing so, number of Tier 1 applicants will decrease to a significantly low level, which of course they do not want.

[confusedhsmp]

@push

ops. vinata indeed.

@ Mvento

Thats exactly what they want.

If you read the report, there is a table of earnings which clearly shows that around 67% of the applicants are earning £40000+ as hsmpians OR tier1ers. As such it makes sense for the HO to raise the earning bar and have as many of these people and get rid of lower earners. leaving £25k-£40k mainly for younger applicants.

The proposal is more about having middle aged high earners (hence the change in age criteria aswell) than getting young low earning applicants.

[silverTR]

I am sure HO would not implement these recommendations as these are, because by doing so, number of Tier 1 applicants will decrease to a significantly low level, which of course they do not want.

mvent00 may be this is just they want.

[vinata]

@push

If you read the report, there is a table of earnings which clearly shows that around 67% of the applicants are earning £40000+ as hsmpians OR tier1ers. As such it makes sense for the HO to raise the earning bar and have as many of these people and get rid of lower earners. leaving £25k-£40k mainly for younger applicants.

The proposal is more about having middle aged high earners (hence the change in age criteria aswell) than getting young low earning applicants.

The problem with this new proposal is that it concerns past earnings of the new applicants, and not those who extend their current stay in the UK. So, if you have already worked in the UK for 3 years, it is likely you could be earning over £40,000pa. But the problem arises when it comes to the new applicants.

From the proposal it follows that someone with masters degree aged between 30 and 35 and with UK experience would need to show his previous earning of at least £40,000 or an equivalent to those converted from another currency. So, just think about it. If someone lives in China, India, Pakistan or Africa, how likely is that they could have earned that amount in their own country? And even if they did, such applicants won't probably want to apply for a visa to the UK because their own lives in their own countries would probably be well settled. Personally, if I could have earned that amount in my own country, I would have not immigrated to the UK, as there would have been no point in doing this.

Consequently, the number of the new applicants would drop very sharply. But it could be exactly what this government really want to do. Who knows....

[mvent00]

@ Mvento

Thats exactly what they want.

If you read the report, there is a table of earnings which clearly shows that around 67% of the applicants are earning £40000+ as hsmpians OR tier1ers. As such it makes sense for the HO to raise the earning bar and have as many of these people and get rid of lower earners. leaving £25k-£40k mainly for younger applicants.

Yes that is right, but from these 67% hsmpians, a big majority appears to be doctors. Excluding these doctors and keeping in mind the recent ban on doctor in training for Tier 1 applications, this 67% will have a sudden decrease on the number of applicants. It is well known that doctors earn a lot, perhaps the most highly salaried persons in UK. That is why, in report, they also quoted that education level should be decreased to bachelor's degree as most of the doctors fall under this category, and not master's degree. HO recently imposed bans on doctors in training for Tier 1 applications; they must have a solid reason for that. In a matter of few months it is highly unlikely that they would lift that ban. These recommendations appear to be a bitter pill for HO to swallow. We cannot compare these with recent recommendations accepted for Tier 2 applications. May be I am wrong but that is what I think.

[confusedhsmp]

@push

If you read the report, there is a table of earnings which clearly shows that around 67% of the applicants are earning £40000+ as hsmpians OR tier1ers. As such it makes sense for the HO to raise the earning bar and have as many of these people and get rid of lower earners. leaving £25k-£40k mainly for younger applicants.

The proposal is more about having middle aged high earners (hence the change in age criteria aswell) than getting young low earning applicants.

The problem with this new proposal is that it concerns past earnings of the new applicants, and not those who extend their current stay in the UK. So, if you have already worked in the UK for 3 years, it is likely you could be earning over £40,000pa. But the problem arises when it comes to the new applicants.

From the proposal it follows that someone with masters degree aged between 30 and 35 and with UK experience would need to show his previous earning of at least £40,000 or an equivalent to those converted from another currency. So, just think about it. If someone lives in China, India, Pakistan or Africa, how likely is that they could have earned that amount in their own country? And even if they did, such applicants won't probably want to apply for a visa to the UK because their own lives in their own countries would probably be well settled. Personally, if I could have earned that amount in my own country, I would have not immigrated to the UK, as there would have been no point in doing this.

Consequently, the number of the new applicants would drop very sharply. But it could be exactly what this government really want to do. Who knows....

Thats the danger of this report the HO should look at. But then again MAC has also recomended revising the earing multiplier, which if lowered would clear up some of the net effect, highly unlikely but probable for most developing countries excluding India and Nigeria.

@ Mvento

Thats exactly what they want.

If you read the report, there is a table of earnings which clearly shows that around 67% of the applicants are earning £40000+ as hsmpians OR tier1ers. As such it makes sense for the HO to raise the earning bar and have as many of these people and get rid of lower earners. leaving £25k-£40k mainly for younger applicants.

Yes that is right, but from these 67% hsmpians, a big majority appears to be doctors. Excluding these doctors and keeping in mind the recent ban on doctor in training for Tier 1 applications, this 67% will have a sudden decrease on the number of applicants. It is well known that doctors earn a lot, perhaps the most highly salaried persons in UK. That is why, in report, they also quoted that education level should be decreased to bachelor's degree as most of the doctors fall under this category, and not master's degree. HO recently imposed bans on doctors in training for Tier 1 applications; they must have a solid reason for that. In a matter of few months it is highly unlikely that they would lift that ban. These recommendations appear to be a bitter pill for HO to swallow. We cannot compare these with recent recommendations accepted for Tier 2 applications. May be I am wrong but that is what I think.

Exactly, and the figures are from 2007. The report builds on this flawed data not relevant anymore.

[/u]

[sthita]

I am 32 from India.

Currently, my PGDBA is not recognised by Naric after assessment. No points on age. 40 points on income.

Should I take a risk now and apply as I have the required funds and a valid IELTS test score?

Or should I wait hope that the changes will work to my benefit?

If these changes happen, I may stand to get

Age: 10 points

Education: 30 points
(if revision of qualifying inst. 35 maybe)

Income: Tricky if they revise the multiplier.
I should get atleast 35 points on income. Any estimates on how much that can be? Under current multiplier of 5.3 the equivalent is 72000 gbp.


What happens if I change jobs in between. I hope there is no discontinuity clause.