EU Treaty Refused

[CMoses]

Just got a refusal for my in-laws (South African) for a residence permit on the basis I did not prove sufficiently that they are dependent on us. I am Uk and husband naturalised Irish. I wrote them a letter back quoting Directive 2004/38 and SI 656 that I dont need to prove that, that they are direct family and have an automatic right to live with us. Is this correct?

[Obie]

Yes,they are right Children over 21 and family members in the Ascending Line need to provide evidence that they are dependant on you to qualify as Family member, or membership of the same household as you to be considered as Other family members (Article 3).

If they are unable to produce this, they will not qualify.

[CMoses]

I trawled through both the SI 656 and Directive 2004/38 and couldnt find a reference to prove this in relation to "qualifying" family members. We had already provided to them letters froom the South African government denying them pensions and explained that they are too old to work there (they are 55 and 72) and have no other family in SA to support them. Is there any other way I can prove dependency? They only became dependent on us since moving here in April 2009, before that they were working and retired.

[Obie]

[quote=" Regulation 2006"]
“qualifying family memberâ€

[CMoses]

Thanks for that.. We have written to them explaining the situation and ages (sorry 66 and 72) that they are retired, had a small pension (€5,000) and therefore the South African Government would not give them a state pension. (We sent them a original of that letter). Only daughter in SA has a brain tumour and cannot support them. They are on VHI here. They are living with us in our property here that we own, which we have proved to them. I cannot think of any other way of proving their dependency, they have no money in their bank account here (we sent them a statement) and they are still insisting documentary evidence from the relevant authority in South Africa, or that they are a member of the household. Does that mean household here? How do we prove that... letter to them from the hospital, Social welfare for thier PPS numbers... I cant think of anything else, they just seem to disregard individual circumstances, which I think is in breach of EU Directive?

[Obie]

I am not a great fan of the Department of Justice EU Treaty Rights section, but on this occasion, i think they are somehow right.

You have shown them sufficient evidence that your parents will have difficulty providing for their financial needs, but you have failed to provide evidence that you have been supporting the needs which they are unable to provide for. Without that , the memberstate are not oblige to process residency as they cannot be considered as Dependant Direct relatives in the ascending line.

The support should have been established before they came to Ireland, not after they arrived.

If you have evidence that they lived with you under the same roof recently, then you will qualify aswell.

You best option will be to consider applying for a stamp3, Once they have lived with you for a whiles and you have the necessary evidence of support, you can apply for EU fam.

If you parent have medical condition, for which they need your care, they will qualify for resident card too.

I hope my explanation is clear enough.

[CMoses]

Hi there, they have been living with us for 7 months and we have been feeding, clothing etc them. We didnt support them in South Africa, as they were working and just retired when they found out they wouldnt get a pension. They they came here to us. How can we prove dependency or that they are members of the household then for the last 7 months.. that seems to be my problem. Your time is much appreciated x

[Obie]

You should have opened an account, and make regular monthly remittance to them via the account.

You could get a letter from the medical insurance provider, showing you are the person paying their monthly or annual premium fee.

Also get a letter from the landlord showing they live under your household and that you are the payer of the rent .

You might need to consider applying for Stamp 3 or going to Northern Ireland, for a while with your dependant relatives and returning back, if all options prove futile.

Swearing an affidavit that you have been providing their needs might also help.

I wish you all the best.

[CMoses]

Thanks for all your help. Will try and get some documents together from the VHI, which we paid for, and do some Affidavits.

[CMoses]

I received a letter back from DOJ referring to my letter saying that under the Directive and SI 656 their request is not applicable. They wrote within 2 days saying that the contents of my letter have been noted and that they will be in contact with me in due course regarding same. I suppose they have summoned all the might of their legal team now!! In the meantime, two days ago I sent proof of: VHI that we paid for and they are dependents on our VHI, car receipt that I paid for and registered in my mother in laws name, proof of car ownership in her name, and receipt for car insurance that I paid for the insurance of her car. Also bank statement since May that the only money in her account is from us. Also letters from PPS with our address on, proving that they are a member of our household. Do you think that this will be enough?