Spousal Visa Application - Pakistan

[HeartGambler]

Just to clarify there is no mandatory requirement to sunmit a Nikah nama in urdu with a certified translation in english. You could simply go to registrar who can do the original in Nikah Nama in English ther are loads in Karachi including Mosques. This way u get your original Nikah Nama done in English and then no need for translation and that also works for you CNIC in Pakistan and the UK for British Passport.

I submitted mine and there was no issue with the BHC, I used the same to get NICOP from Pak Embassy London for both my wife and son and also got my wifes Name changed (to Husband) on her British Passport with the same Nikah nama and never had to provide any translataion nor did ever had any urdu nikah nama.

Also it was never registered with any Union Counicl just the Nikah Registar.

But the funniest bit of all is that I still have no received my spouse visa and submitted my passort yesterday after I recieved the call letter so lets see how long does it take now.

I guess I am one of the luckiest person on this forum as the decision of BHC to refuse my spouse visa did not affected me at all as I had a valid student visa so when they refused my visa I got the ticket and went back, was there at the birth of our Baby Boy and then fought my own appeal even judge was confused as to how come I was in the country and then came back here Karachi to re-submit my passport.

[batleykhan]

Just to clarify there is no mandatory requirement to sunmit a Nikah nama i urdu with a certified translation. You could simply go to register which can do the original in english ther are loads in karachi including Mosques. Then u grt your original Nikah nama in english and then no need for translation and that also works for you CNIC in Pakistan and the UK for British Passport.

I submitted mine and there was no issue with the BHC, I used the same to get NICOP from Pak Embassy London for both my wife and son and also got my wifes Name changed (to Husband) on her British Passport with the same Nikah nama and never had to provide any translataion nor did ever had any urdu nikah nama.

Also it was never registered with any Union Counicl just the Nikah Registar.

But the funniest bit of all is that I still have no received my spouse visa and submitted my passort yesterday after I recieved the call letter so lets see how long does it take now.

I guess I am one of the luckiest person on this forum as the decision of BHC to refuse my spouse visa did not affected me at all as I had a valid student visa so when they refused my visa I got the ticket and went back ther fought my own appeal even judge was confused as to how come I was in the country and then came back here Karachi to re-submit my passport.

You have completely lost me with your comments. What are you saying or implying?

[lubzy]

Hi, is anyone able to clarify the process for receiving a call letter after an allowed appeal? The local post office in my husband's area of Lahore is unreliable and he hasn't received a couple of letters sent to him from the AIT. Should our solicitor also receive a copy?

Also, I saw that Mr Batley Khan wrote a letter to BHC some while ago querying the lengthy delays in processing visas after allowed appeals, to which he received a detailed reply. Has the time taken to process these now shortened to within the timeframe? Is anyone aware of the "official" target timeframe for these settlement allowed appeal visas?

My husband won his appeal on 16th November, received the determination on 24th November and the 28 days appeal time runs out on 22nd December. I know Xmas and New Year holidays are looming but how soon after this date can we expect to receive a call letter?

Many Thanks

[HeartGambler]

Hi Lubzy,

The Call Letter is issued to Only to the applicant and your solicitor will not receive a copy. But the good thing is its a registered mail so someone will have to sign and majority of the registered mail get delivered by the Pakisatn Post.

If you do not receive the call letter then it would be a lengthy and difficult process to get it re issued as it is issued by the BHC and not the AIT and I am sure you knoww how difficult it is to get through to them and not to mention there is no way to talk to them on phone its just email or fax.

I won my appeal on the 26/10/2009 got my determenation on the 02/11/2009 my call letter was issued exactly after 30 days that is 26/11//2009 but due to Eid holidays I received it on the 05/12/2009 and I submitted my passport on the 10/12/2009.

[HeartGambler]

The nikkah nammah that you submitted, was it issued by an official of the local union council?. The original nikkah nammah should be in Urdu( with a certified english translation accompanying it).

On it should be yours signature, your wifes signature, the signature of the witnesses, the signature of the Alim who carried out the nikkah, along with signature of the UC official

If it does not have the Union Council seal/stamp,then its not valid and therefore the ECO was right to refuse you.

If the nikkah nammah was not signed and registered with the Union Council, the BHC would not accept it and therefore to them your marrige is not valid and they are right to refuse you.

Whilst the type of nikkah nammah that you carried out maybe generally accepted in Pakistan, I am afraid for visa purposes they are not good enough as the BHC will only accept nikkah carried out in accordance with above legislation and officially registered with the local UC.

I am afraid this is bad news for you and your spouse. It will mean that you will have to go back to AJK, carry out the nikkah again, register it with UC and then make fresh application for your spouse and start all over again

Islamically wise your marriage is ok and valid but not for visa purposes unfortunately.

Just to clarify there is no mandatory requirement to sunmit a Nikah nama in urdu with a certified translation in english. You could simply go to registrar who can do the original in Nikah Nama in English ther are loads in Karachi including Mosques. This way u get your original Nikah Nama done in English and then no need for translation and that also works for you CNIC in Pakistan and the UK for British Passport.

I submitted mine and there was no issue with the BHC, I used the same to get NICOP from Pak Embassy London for both my wife and son and also got my wifes Name changed (to Husband) on her British Passport with the same Nikah nama and never had to provide any translataion nor did ever had any urdu nikah nama.

Also it was never registered with any Union Counicl just the Nikah Registar.

But the funniest bit of all is that I still have no received my spouse visa and submitted my passort yesterday after I recieved the call letter so lets see how long does it take now.

I guess I am one of the luckiest person on this forum as the decision of BHC to refuse my spouse visa did not affected me at all as I had a valid student visa so when they refused my visa I got the ticket and went back, was there at the birth of our Baby Boy and then fought my own appeal even judge was confused as to how come I was in the country and then came back here Karachi to re-submit my passport.

Mr Khan I was correcting some of your comments that a Nikkah nama should not necessarily be in URDU it can be in English (Not translation).

[fazan_alam786]

Hi Guys,

I am new to this all.... I have been though the whole post since last year 2008 by sammie... btw congrats to u that u have got ur husband visa... btw I wish whoever has got there visa congrats... and whoever is waiting... i hope Allah is with them at all tyms...

My real concern was really that I have sent the papers and doc to the Mirpur office via my wife... they have confirmed by a solicitor that papers are all fine and that we have attached now a declaration letter that states that our marriage has been confirmed.... I have been told that loads of peoples cases have gone to appeal only becasue of this Union Council Stamp...

All you got to do is get a solicitor to witness that his is a geniune marriage... Inshallah she will be going to the office on wednesday to admit all papers... please do make dua's and I do the same for everyone else...

I will keep you guys posted..

Allah Hafiz

Fazan

[batleykhan]

Here is an extract from the Muslim Family Law Ordinance 1961 which makes it compulsary to register the marriage with a Union Council.

If this is not done the BHC will not accept the marriage certificate and therefore will not accept the marriage as being valid.

This is reason why b92753 visa was refused and others will be if the appropiate nikkah nammah is not provided ( In Urdu with English translation. The translation is provided for the benefit of teh English ECO who can not read Urdu)

5. Registration of marriage.
(1) Every marriage solemnized under Muslim Law shall be registered in accordance with the provisions of this Ordinance.

(2) For the purpose of registration of marriage under this Ordinance, the Union Council shall grant licenses to one or more persons, to be called Nikah Registrars, but in no case shall more than on Nikah Registrar be licensed for any one Ward.

(3) Every marriage not solemnized by the Nikah Registrar shall, for the purpose of registration under this Ordinance be reported to him by the person who has solemnized such marriage.

(4). Whoever contravenes the provisions of such-section (3) shall be punishable with simple imprisonment for a term which may extent to three months, or with fine which may extend to one thousand rupees, or with both.

(5). The form of nikahnama, the registers to be maintained by Nikah Registrars, the records to be preserved by Union Councils, the manner in which marriage shall be registered and copies of nikhanama shall be supplied to parties, and the fees to be charged thereof, shall be such as may be prescribed.

(6) Any person may, on payment of the prescribed fee, if any, inspect at the office of the Union Council the record preserved under sub-section (5), or obtain a copy of any entry therein.

[b92753]

Hi Batley Khan,

My brother in law went to the union council in mirpur to get his nikah namh stamped and they told him that union council in AJK dont stamp nikah namah as this the MFLO 1961 is not extended in to AJK therfore you have to get it stampped from the Mufti Office in mirpur.

But the ECO specifically asking for union council stamp cos of the MFLO 1961. But union council in mirpur saying they have no authority to stamp nikah namah as this is the job of the mufti.

So dont really know what the ECO want? or what should be done in this situation.

[RASHI]

Hi, b92753 is right, This does not apply to AJK, its only Mufti who does it in AJK, there was no objection when i applied for my wifes visa,(by the way my wife is still waiting for her passport to be stamped since 12-5-2009 after an allowed appeal, its over 7 monts now) BUT last week my sister was told to appeal as she needs to register the marriage with a Union Council.

This is just another excuse, if ECO can't find anything they will come up with something. And i read in the newspaper that 90% of application were rejected from islamabad for one or another reasons to go for appeal in last few months.......

[batleykhan]

Hi Batley Khan,

My brother in law went to the union council in mirpur to get his nikah namh stamped and they told him that union council in AJK dont stamp nikah namah as this the MFLO 1961 is not extended in to AJK therfore you have to get it stampped from the Mufti Office in mirpur.

But the ECO specifically asking for union council stamp cos of the MFLO 1961. But union council in mirpur saying they have no authority to stamp nikah namah as this is the job of the mufti.

So dont really know what the ECO want? or what should be done in this situation.

I have looked at several cases of marriages from AJK and have noticed that they have nikkah nammah signed and sealed with teh UC stamp, so I cant understand why some UC in AJK do them and others dont. If you say that the MFLO does not extend to AJK , then why are the ones that I have seen with my own eyes being done.

Are you sure they are not asking for a bribe to do it.?.

There are a lot of people from your area in UK, maybe ask them how they did it.

You have two options, to register the marriage like the ECO is demanding, or provide him with documentary evidence stating that the MFLO does not extend to your area and that you should be exempt.

Remember you have to do something quick as you only have 28 days to appeal, otherwise you will have to start fresh again

[b92753]

Hi Batley Khan,

I also agree with you, as i have seen several Nikah Namah with UC stamp. Foexample my dad who got married nearly 40 years ago he has a stamp and also my sister who got married 10 years ago also has the UC stamp.

Im just confused- Pakistan is seriously a messed up country. My dad is also intent on the fact that UC stamp nikah nama in mirpur. But mufti, union council in mirpur say they dont. So dont know what to do.

[batleykhan]

Im just confused- Pakistan is seriously a messed up country. My dad is also intent on the fact that UC stamp nikah nama in mirpur. But mufti, union council in mirpur say they dont. So dont know what to do.

Pay the Mufti some money ,and I am sure he will stamp it for you........ what a state our country is when you have to pay a Mufti a back hander to get things done. That why I hate my country and am glad I live in UK.

I think if I was in your shoes, I would forget that and make a new application for a fiancee visa. If and when she arrives here in UK get married at a registered office ( you obviiosly are married islamically).

Unless you want to go back and get married somewhere where they will seal and stamp it for you and then reapply for visa again

[b92753]

Im just confused- Pakistan is seriously a messed up country. My dad is also intent on the fact that UC stamp nikah nama in mirpur. But mufti, union council in mirpur say they dont. So dont know what to do.

Pay the Mufti some money ,and I am sure he will stamp it for you........ what a state our country is when you have to pay a Mufti a back hander to get things done. That why I hate my country and am glad I live in UK.

I think if I was in your shoes, I would forget that and make a new application for a fiancee visa. If and when she arrives here in UK get married at a registered office ( you obviiosly are married islamically).

Unless you want to go back and get married somewhere where they will seal and stamp it for you and then reapply for visa again

Thanks Batley Khan, This was the reason why my sisters visa was refused.

Also my Brother who got married last year is going to send his paper work off for his wife. He is self employed and accountant has created his projected financial statmenets and will submit his online return in the next few weeks. He will be sending paper work off soon. Would he need a letter from the tax office saying that he has registered with them and will be submitting online return ? Or is the projected accounts and actual accounts from the accountant sufficient ?

thanks

[batleykhan]

Thanks Batley Khan, This was the reason why my sisters visa was refused.

You obviously havent learnt your lesson than have you?

Accounts done and certified by the accountant should be enough. Any proof or evidence from Tax Office is usually always helpful.

Tell your brother not to hurry. Most refusals are usually becos people try and hurry things up and end up messing the whole application.

Pm me your email address and I will send him a good article that I have written about the procedure and docs required for spouse visa. he should read it carefully to save himself a lot of hassle later on

Ps

let us know what you do anyway with your problem. I still think best bet is to start a fresh and apply for fiancee visa to solve your problems .

[MohammedKhan2009]

Hiya,
My mrs got the call, to say come and collect her papers, they told her the application was rejected, due to using phone cards and that they cant trace which number have rang with the cards. They said we have 28 days to appeal, so how would I go about this and what would I need to do, to show them that we are in touch?

Thanks

Mohammed Khan

Case was submitted 26th Oct 2009
Rejected 16th Dec 2009

[c4551m]

Hello

I am about to apply student dependent visa for my wife.
I have gone through the information on the home Office website this time.But need further more information from all you guys from your personal experience,I did apply visit visa for my wife 5 months back which got refused.

will this affect the application this time as I am applying her on student dependent visa ?

How Long is the TB certificate Valid ?

My Dad supports financially,do I need any Affidavit of Support letter,as I am the main sponsor.

Is the requirement abit different from the marriage settelment visa?

waiting for your replies
thnks in advance/

[b92753]

Hiya,
My mrs got the call, to say come and collect her papers, they told her the application was rejected, due to using phone cards and that they cant trace which number have rang with the cards. They said we have 28 days to appeal, so how would I go about this and what would I need to do, to show them that we are in touch?

Thanks

Mohammed Khan

Case was submitted 26th Oct 2009
Rejected 16th Dec 2009

Hi Mohammed Khan,

Was that the only reason for refusal? Did you add any pictures of your wedding ? letters from each other ? emails etc ??

Everyone Please Note - adding phone cards does not give your application any credibility. As the calls can not be traced.

Those who are wanting to apply in future; should avoid using phones cards and use either the following services which will provide them an audit trail of their calls:

1) Register on www.vopium.com- Which is exactly like calling from telephone cards but alot cheaper and allows you to view/print your bills online showing your spend and the numbers you have called

2) Buy either a Lyca mobile Sim card or Lebara and request for print out of your bills from them.

3) Also ask your partner in pakistan to call you several times a week and prior to submitting their application they can go in to their service providers franchise office i.e (ufone, telenor or jazz) and request a print out of their call history. They will charge you around 50 rupees.

So please please learn from others peoples mistakes- From what i can recall Batley Khan had previously mentioned that dont add phone cards as they dont prove anything. (by adding them were just giving the ECO's reasons for refusal)

The refusal of Mohammed Khan shows that the ECO will refuse on the smallest of reasons. It could be possble that if he hadnt put the phone cards in his application he may have not got a refusal. So it is best not to add phone cards in the application in future and do the above instead.

[VASEY]

I agree phonecards dont prove anything LEBARA is the best way to go,

however Mohammed got a quick response, and interesting to see if he submitted photos etc,

provide a list Mohammed and we will post what was missing.

if you keep track and and send this off to them with appeal, also if you have sent/received any mail show copies of this, if the time from you leaving Pakistan and and applying was short, than provide an explanation.

if you provide the relevant docs im sure they will review and inshallah change their mind.

[batleykhan]

Hiya,
My mrs got the call, to say come and collect her papers, they told her the application was rejected, due to using phone cards and that they cant trace which number have rang with the cards. They said we have 28 days to appeal, so how would I go about this and what would I need to do, to show them that we are in touch?

Please give the full reasons as per the refusal notice and you may get help and further advice.

Also when did you get married, how long you have been apart from your wife and how did you keep in contact with her during your seperation?

Boy its the same old things with us Pakistanis. We spend a bloody fortune on wedding , travelling etc, and then when it comes to ringing our loved one, we become tight arses and use cheap phone call cards( instaed of ringing 5 mins per week from our landline - probally costing about a tenner a month) knowing full well that evidence will be required for the visa applications.

Its plain stupidy if you ask me. We only have ourselves to blame for such refusals.

[b92753]

Hiya,
My mrs got the call, to say come and collect her papers, they told her the application was rejected, due to using phone cards and that they cant trace which number have rang with the cards. They said we have 28 days to appeal, so how would I go about this and what would I need to do, to show them that we are in touch?

Please give the full reasons as per the refusal notice and you may get help and further advice.

Also when did you get married, how long you have been apart from your wife and how did you keep in contact with her during your seperation?

Boy its the same old things with us Pakistanis. We spend a bloody fortune on wedding , travelling etc, and then when it comes to ringing our loved one, we become tight arses and use cheap phone call cards( instaed of ringing 5 mins per week from our landline - probally costing about a tenner a month) knowing full well that evidence will be required for the visa applications.

Its plain stupidy if you ask me. We only have ourselves to blame for such refusals.

thats it Batley Khan you tell them.

[MohammedKhan2009]

I didnt know about them not accepting phone cards as proof, only found this forum after the application had already put in.

My mrs said thats the only reason they refused the application due to the phone cards, insha-allah tomorrow she is going to parcel the papers over to me and then I can appeal from the UK.

Anyone have any ideas, how long appeals usually take?


This things I included in the application were:

1. Sponsorship declaration from myself.
2. Certified copy of my passport.
3. Original marriage certificate together with full certified English translation.
4. Letter from my employer.
5. My wage slips x 4.
6. My P60, end of year certificate for 2008-2009.
7. Bank statements from Sept 2008 to Sept 2009.
8. Land registry documents for my address, showing my dad owns the house.
9. Property inspection report.
10. Letter from my dad, saying we can live at the address.
11. Certified copy of my dads passport.
12. Letter from Inland Revenue showing that I am working at my employers and from what date.

Sents photos of my wedding and about 25 phone cards.

I did buy a lebara sim, which I have registered, but only got that in November 2009, I use to text my mrs from my 3 network sim, which I have bill, showing this, the only thing is the contract from 3 is in my brothers name, but I use and pay the bill.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks all in advance.

Mohammed Khan

[MohammedKhan2009]

Hiya,
My mrs got the call, to say come and collect her papers, they told her the application was rejected, due to using phone cards and that they cant trace which number have rang with the cards. They said we have 28 days to appeal, so how would I go about this and what would I need to do, to show them that we are in touch?

Please give the full reasons as per the refusal notice and you may get help and further advice.

Also when did you get married, how long you have been apart from your wife and how did you keep in contact with her during your seperation?

Boy its the same old things with us Pakistanis. We spend a bloody fortune on wedding , travelling etc, and then when it comes to ringing our loved one, we become tight arses and use cheap phone call cards( instaed of ringing 5 mins per week from our landline - probally costing about a tenner a month) knowing full well that evidence will be required for the visa applications.

Its plain stupidy if you ask me. We only have ourselves to blame for such refusals.

Hiya

I got married in 6 April 2009, then I returned to the UK on 18th May, I had a job when I came back but it was only part time, I started in my current job on 6th July 2009. We kept in contact by phone and texts only, I used phone cards to be honest. She put the case in on 26th Oct 2009.

Thanks for any advice in advance.

Mohammed Khan

[zoomaj]

i too submitted phonecards on my wifes app and they went thru! however they did reject me on other things! not believing i have a permanent and secure employment, although i sent a letter from the employer saying it is perm and secure, they refused my bank statements as they where print outs, however they where stamped by the bank and signed to confirm they are as good as originals, so they probably let me off the phone cards, they might have thought if they put that in then they def are taking the mick!

it seems they can do what ever they want! i got married june 08, applied in nov 08, refused Jan 09, appeal letter July 09, appeal heard Oct 09, We won mashalah! and now waiting!,

bro u got 2 choices appeal but its well over a year, or submit a fresh app, it will cost u another £700 or wot ever the price is, but it shudnt take more than a year like these bloody appeals! batley khan can u shed some advice for this brother???

[b92753]

Hiya,
My mrs got the call, to say come and collect her papers, they told her the application was rejected, due to using phone cards and that they cant trace which number have rang with the cards. They said we have 28 days to appeal, so how would I go about this and what would I need to do, to show them that we are in touch?

Please give the full reasons as per the refusal notice and you may get help and further advice.

Also when did you get married, how long you have been apart from your wife and how did you keep in contact with her during your seperation?

Boy its the same old things with us Pakistanis. We spend a bloody fortune on wedding , travelling etc, and then when it comes to ringing our loved one, we become tight arses and use cheap phone call cards( instaed of ringing 5 mins per week from our landline - probally costing about a tenner a month) knowing full well that evidence will be required for the visa applications.

Its plain stupidy if you ask me. We only have ourselves to blame for such refusals.

Hiya

I got married in 6 April 2009, then I returned to the UK on 18th May, I had a job when I came back but it was only part time, I started in my current job on 6th July 2009. We kept in contact by phone and texts only, I used phone cards to be honest. She put the case in on 26th Oct 2009.

Thanks for any advice in advance.

Mohammed Khan

Hi Mohammed,

I dont entirely agree that your refusal was only because of the phone cards. There must be some other reason behind the refusal. So once you get the refusal please let us know what the exact refusal was.

[batleykhan]

Hi Mohammed,

I dont entirely agree that your refusal was only because of the phone cards. There must be some other reason behind the refusal. So once you get the refusal please let us know what the exact refusal was.

I agree with this. Untill such time we know the exact wording of the refusal,its difficult to comment.

I have sneaky feeling that Refusal notice will probally say that they have doubt whether this marriage is subsistence because the applicant has failed to provide proof of contact with each other since the marriage.

Whilst it can be argued that yes there was conatct (phone cards)but this is no proof.

My advice to those who have got married and then returned to UK to do a number of things:

1. Keep in contact with each other by phone(provide phone bills to prove it).

2. Use email if you have internet.

3. if you cant do 2 then write letters to each other saying how you miss each other, want to be together etc.

4.All men should send about £100 every couple of months to their wifes back in Pakistan so they can buy thins for themselves. WHATEVER YOU DO, DONT GIVE IT TO FRIENDS GOING TO PAK TO PASS IT ON TO WIFE. SEND IT VIA THESE MONEY TRANSFER AND GET RECIPT FOR IT

This is good proof that you love and care for your spouse and all this will help the application.

As whether the above should appeal or reapply, it will all depend on reason for refusal. If it is above then I would appeal evenb though it may take 6-8 months.

Lets wait and see what the wording of the refusal is ( please give exact wording rather than what you or your wife thinks)