Schengen Visa - necessary to apply in person?

[ca.funke]

I always thought that all Schengen-Visas have to be applied for in person, no exceptions.

Now I directly know a person who applied for a Schengen-Visa with a Schengen-embassy in Beirut (Lebanon) through an agent. The "service" was USD 500, the visa was issued within one week (application dropped Monday, issued Friday, 2 months multiple entry).

Granted, the individual will come to Schengen-Land multiple times for project-work and I'm 100% positive he will return home without causing any trouble, but what's all the "personal only" fuss about, as stated on many embassies' websites?

Pre-emptive answers for upcoming questions: Lebanese citizen, 37 years, male, not married, never had a Schengen-Visa before. Usually the "best" criteria to be refused.

I'm puzzled. (and happy to meet him, also )

[86ti]

Granted, the individual will come to Schengen-Land multiple times for project-work and I'm 100% positive he will return home without causing any trouble, but what's all the "personal only" fuss about, as stated on many embassies' websites?

Search for 'bona fide visum'? Embassies have quite some leeway in issuing visas. Just read the Common Consular Instructions.

[Wanderer]

French do postal apps if u live outside 'London'. 'London' being to the French almost all of Southern England tho.....

[stmellon]

The Belgian VFS in London don't insist on personal applications only - I was able to apply on my wife's behalf. I had to pay the VFS fee, but US$500 - the guy was robbed!

[ca.funke]

US$500 - the guy was robbed!

Thanks for all the answers.

I´m quite upset to learn that this is possible in principle, while I practically lived inside the Belgian embassy in Dublin for quite a while, when one application was chasing the next. (Never got multiple-entry, which sped up our decision to move to Schengen-Land)

About the $500 - I guess he was "robbed", but his employer paid so it doesn´t really matter.

Well well, thanks again and regards from Schengen-Land

[acme4242]

I´m quite upset to learn that this is possible in principle, while I practically lived inside the Belgian embassy in Dublin for quite a while, when one application was chasing the next. Never got multiple-entry.

I tried without luck, to find some written instructions or guideline for treatment of EU family
members, specifically Visa class, multi-entry, and visa duration rules, etc.
The Common Consular Instructions. has this guideline instruction

a visa valid for one year, entitling a three month stay
during any half-year and several entries; this visa may be
issued to persons providing the necessary guarantees and
persons in whom the Contracting Parties have shown a
particular interest

You could argue that your wife, is someone of particular
interest to you.
And to require guarantees from someone who has an automatic right of entry and residence is ridiculous.

Common Consular Instructions.

Schengen Visa categories:
Category C issued under EU law
Category D issued under National law

* Category C refers to a short-term stay visa. They are issued for reasons other than to immigrate. They entitle holders to carry out a continuous visit or several visits whose duration does not exceed three months in any half-year from the date of first entry.
* Category D refers to national visa. They are issued by a Schengen state in accordance with its national legislation as with respect to the conditions (however, a uniform sticker is used). The national visa allows the holder to transit from a non-Schengen country to the Schengen state which issued the national visa within five days. Only after the holder has obtained a residence title after arrival in the destination country (or a different visa), he may again travel to other Schengen countries.
* Category D+C visa combine the functions of the visa of both categories: They are intended to allow the holder to enter the issuing Schengen state for long-term stay in that state, but also to travel in the Schengen area like a holder of a Category C visa.


2.1.3. Short-stay or travel visas: multiple-entry visas

This visa entitles aliens who seek to enter the territories of the Contracting Parties, for reasons other than immigration, to pay a continuous visit or several visits, the duration of which does not exceed three months in any half-year from the date of first entry. As a general rule, this visa may be issued for one or several entries.

In the case of aliens who need to travel frequently to one or several Schengen States, for example on business, short-stay visas may be issued for several visits, provided that the total length of these visits does not exceed three months in any half-year. This multiple entry visa may be valid for one year, and in exceptional cases, for more than a year for certain categories of persons. (see V, 2, 2.1)

V
2. Decision-making procedure for visa applications
2.1. Choice of type of visa and number of entries
A uniform visa pursuant to Article 11 may be:

- a travel visa valid for one or more entries, provided that
neither the length of a continuous stay nor the total length
of successive stays exceeds three months in any half-year,
from the date of first entry;

- a visa valid for one year, entitling a three month stay
during any half-year and several entries; this visa may be
issued to persons providing the necessary guarantees and
persons in whom the Contracting Parties have shown a
particular interest. In exceptional cases, a visa valid for
more than one year, but for no more than five years, may
be issued to certain categories of person for several entries;


2.2. Long-stay visas

Visas for visits exceeding three months shall be national visas issued by one of the Member States in accordance with its national legislation.

==========================================

SINGLE-ENTRY SHORT-STAY VISA
- Type of visa: the short-stay visa bears the identification code C.
- The duration of the visa's validity is calculated as follows: from the date of departure (e.g. 01.02.00). The period is fixed as follows: date of departure + duration of stay + period of grace of 15 days.
- The duration of the stay may not exceed 90 days in any six-month period.

MULTIPLE-ENTRY SHORT-STAY VISA
- The duration of validity is calculated from the date of departure + 6 months maximum on the basis of the documentary evidence provided.
- The duration of the stay may not exceed 90 days in any six-month period . The duration of the stay is that of the cumulative total of successive stays. This is also based on the documentary evidence provided.

SHORT-STAY TRAVEL VISA
- This is a multiple-entry short-stay visa which is valid for over 6 months, 1, 2, 3 or 5 years in exceptional cases (e.g.V.I.P.s).
- Same rules apply to the duration of the stay(90 days maximum).

I read in one >reply< for the Irish, that Family members of EU citizens should be issued with Class-D multi-entry Irish Visas.
But that might be worthless, and Irish Consulates don't know or follow their own rules.

[Prawo]

As of April 2010 the Community Code on Visas will come in force with more detailed instructions, replacing all preceding regulations.


.

[acme4242]

As of April 2010 the Community Code on Visas will come in force with more detailed instructions, replacing all preceding regulations.
.

Thank you very much, At last, Something written down.
And something to think about.

Chapter IV
Issuing of the visa
Article 24
Issuing of a uniform visa

2. Without prejudice to Article 12(a), multiple-entry visas shall be issued with a period of
validity between six months and five years, where the following conditions are met:

(a) the applicant proves the need or justifies the intention to travel frequently and/or
regularly, in particular due to his occupational or family status, such as business
persons, civil servants engaged in regular official contacts with Member States and
EU institutions, representatives of civil society organisations travelling for the
purpose of educational training, seminars and conferences, family members of
citizens of the Union, family members of third-country nationals legally residing in
Member States and seafarers, and

(b) the applicant proves his integrity and reliability, in particular the lawful use of
previous uniform visas or visas with limited territorial validity, his economic
situation in the country of origin and his genuine intention to leave the territory of the
Member States before the expiry of the visa applied for.

[Obie]

The directive makes provision for memberstate to facilitate the entry of family member of EEA national, and did not oblige them to facilitate multiple entries.

Facilitation of multiple entries is purely at the discretion of memberstate and outside the scope of Directive 2004/38EC.

It would have been nice if it wasn't

[eliasuk4u]

Facilitation of multiple entries is purely at the discretion of memberstate and outside the scope of Directive 2004/38EC.

It would have been nice if it wasn't

True. I just got a schengen visa issued single entry for a duration of 1 month despite visiting schengen dozen times in the last 2 years. I also had a schengen visa for 6 months mulitple entry. I do believe that multiple entries is purely at the discretion of member state.

[acme4242]

The 2004/38/EC obligation to afford 'every facility' extends to the issue of
multiple-entry visas, this is the legal assessment by the EU commission,
not me

See the EU commission Legal assessment in the Semmig vs Ireland Petition

Legal assessment
Conditions and time frames for issuing visas

This obligation to afford 'every facility' to family members of EU citizens also, in the
Commission's view, relates to the nature of the visa issued. When it is clear that the person in
question has to travel frequently in a given Member State in the context of exercising his right
to free movement, he should be issued with a multiple-entry visa with a long period of
validity. The time frame for issuing such a visa should also be sufficiently rapid to comply
with the obligation to afford 'every facility'.

And see the Reply from the Irish

Following the transposition of Directive 2004/38/EC a revision of guidance for Irish
missions in relation to visa processing, including documentation and verification
requirements was undertaken. This guidance issued to mission in recent weeks and
I enclose a copy for your information. I would draw your attention to the Section of
the guidance headed "Documents Required" which clarifies, in respect of such
cases, that once a Mission is satisfied with the documentation provided, a visa should
be granted, without referral to INIS (Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service).
The visa should be Multi Journey "D" Visa
:
:
Your letter identified the issue of a multi-journey visa for Mr. Semmig's wife as
answering their specific needs. As indicated above, the revised guidance directs the
issue of such visas in respect of spouses and children of EU nationals

[ca.funke]

You could argue that your wife, is someone of particular interest to you.
And to require guarantees from someone who has an automatic right of entry and residence is ridiculous.

Hi acme4242,

that´s exactly the point I brought forward in both the German and the Belgian embassies in Dublin:

• I am a citizen of Germany / Belgium (respectively)
• My wife has an automatic right of entry anyway
• We wish to visit my parents and other friends in Schengen-Land "sometimes" = short notice, whenever we wish
• If we wanted to live in Schengen-Land, we would have the right to do that also
• The point of any visa-system is to keep unwanted people out, which by definition cannot apply to people with an automatic right of entry
• So if you don´t give us a long-term-multi-entry, we will move to Schengen-land (which is what a visa seeks to avoid), because we´re sick of your games (after roughly 10 single-entry visas)

What can I say - my pleading was ignored, we were really sick of their games and thus moved to Schengen-land.

All problems solved for us, but for people who don´t want to move, the stoopid senseless game continues.

The current letters sent back and forth (commission, member-states, missions and the affected people) about all the misunderstandings in 2004/38/EC are absolutely Kafkaesque. If it hadn´t such serious consequences you may as well have the feeling you´re in the middle of a Kindergarden-play.

Now that I was involved deeply in one EU-regulated matter, I turned from being an EU-fan to an EU-enemy.

In detail: I´m still a fan of the idea of the Union, but it has to be organised in a much more citizen friendly way.

[acme4242]

My goal was to find what EU family rights are actually in writing. Specifically
related to Visa Class, multi-entry and validity rules

I am also unhappy with the EU commission, allowing incorrect, unlawful, misleading
VISA requirement to be published on Embassy websites.
If the Commission cleaned up Embassy websites from tip-off's etc and make take down
notices, this would really help.

Currently any EU Consulate can write what ever they like on their websites,
and violate the lawful EU citizens rights. There is no method to counter this.
As a citizen, if you raise the website issue with someone in charge in the Embassy, their response will be "so sue me"

If you argue your lawful rights to the Consulate desk jockey, they will say look at our website.
Solvit, have not been useful or helpful on this.

Anyway, getting back on topic
The 2004/38/EC obligation to afford 'every facility' extends to the issue of
multiple-entry visas, this is the legal assessment by the EU commission.

[ca.funke]

...I am also unhappy with the EU commission, allowing incorrect, unlawful, misleading
VISA requirement to be published on Embassy websites.
If the Commission cleaned up Embassy websites from tip-off's etc and make take down
notices, this would really help...

Hi acme4242,

we seem to think the same thing: In my >>petition<< to the Parliament I suggested one single website for EU-visa matters.

The mess as per my little >>experiment<< is still pretty much the same. Some websites were changed, but the information on the different websites regarding exactly the same thing (a visa to a Schengen-country) are so different and confusing that even a 5yr old would be able to tell that they can´t mean the same thing.

The information on this board is better than that on most embassies´ websites, which is a point on its own.

IMHO the EU has 2 options:

- grow up and deal with things properly (in visa and of course all other matters) OR
- suffer a slow, prolonged, painful and expensive death.

[acme4242]

I agree with your well written Petition, and will send a letter in support
to the commission.

While the EU commission advise website lists the visa rights

Consular officers issuing the visas may not:

* ask you to produce any documents other than a valid passport and documents attesting to your family link with a Union citizen and proof of dependence, where applicable, such as to furnish proof of means to support yourself, travel tickets, employment certificate, pay slips, bank statements, proof of accommodation, means of subsistence, medical certificate …
* ask you how much money you have to spend;
* ask you questions regarding the purpose and duration of your trip.

But member state consulates ignore it, they display contempt for EU
law that puts conditions upon them.
Here is one such reply I got by e-mail, from the same office
that Bobby McDonagh ran.

It would not be appropriate to provide what would in effect be legal advice on the content of the website material submitted in your emails. I can only emphasise that every visa application made to the Irish authorities is dealt with on an individual basis and in accordance with Irish and European law.

Dan Kelleher
JHA Attache
Permanent Representation of Ireland
Rue Froissart 89 - 93
1040 Brussels

[Obie]

Acme4242 i hate to disagree with you, but article 5 deals with Right of Entry. It doesn't make any provision for multiple entries visa.

So long as memberstate makes provision for entry on every occasion through the accelerated process, they are fulfilling their obligations under Article 5.

I understand the letter written to the Irish representative recommend a Multiple entry visa be issued, but that is simply a recommendation and logical suggestion, it is not legally binding, and there is no provision on the Directive for such visas to be issued. I wholeheartedly wish there were.

[acme4242]

As of April 2010 the Community Code on Visas will come in force with more detailed instructions, replacing all preceding regulations.

.

I just noticed, This new VISA code omits to say the visa should be free for EU family members !

This visa code cannot override directive 2004/38/EC , so maybe its just a mistake ?

Article 16
Visa fee
1. Applicants shall pay a visa fee of EUR 60.
2. Children from the age of six years and below the age of 12 years shall pay a visa fee of
EUR 35.
3. The visa fee shall be revised regularly in order to reflect the administrative costs.
4. The visa fee shall be waived for applicants belonging to one of the following categories:
(a) children under six years;
(b) school pupils, students, post-graduate students and accompanying teachers who
undertake stays for the purpose of study or educational training;
(c) researchers from third countries travelling for the purpose of carrying out scientific
research as defined in Recommendation No 2005/761/EC of the
European Parliament and of the Council of 28 September 2005 to facilitate the issue
by the Member States of uniform short-stay visas for researchers from third countries
travelling within the Community for the purpose of carrying out scientific research1;
(d) representatives of non-profit organisations aged 25 years or less participating in
seminars, conferences, sports, cultural or educational events organised by non-profit
organisations.
5. The visa fee may be waived for:
(a) children from the age of six years and below the age of 12 years;
(b) holders of diplomatic and service passports;
(c) participants aged 25 years or less in seminars, conferences, sports, cultural or
educational events, organised by non-profit organisations.
Within local Schengen cooperation, Members States shall aim to harmonise the application
of these exemptions.
6. In individual cases, the amount of the visa fee to be charged may be waived or reduced
when to do so serves to promote cultural or sporting interests as well as interests in the
field of foreign policy, development policy and other areas of vital public interest or for
humanitarian reasons.

Article 1
Objective and scope
2. The provisions of this Regulation shall apply to any third-country national who must be in
possession of a visa when crossing the external borders of the Member States pursuant to
Council Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 of 15 March 2001 listing the third countries whose
nationals must be in possession of visas when crossing the external borders and those
whose nationals are exempt from that requirement1, without prejudice to:
(a) the rights of free movement enjoyed by third-country nationals who are family
members of citizens of the Union,

(

[DFDS.]

The Belgian VFS in London don't insist on personal applications only - I was able to apply on my wife's behalf. I had to pay the VFS fee, but US$500 - the guy was robbed!

$500 SOUNDS GHETO/ SCAM!

[acme4242]

The Belgian VFS in London don't insist on personal applications only - I was able to apply on my wife's behalf. I had to pay the VFS fee, but US$500 - the guy was robbed!

$500 SOUNDS GHETO/ SCAM!

the new visa code says

The service fee shall not exceed half of the amount of the visa fee set

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The service fee shall not exceed half of the amount of the visa fee set

Sounds good! No visa fee, so therefore no service fee!

Note that the German embassy in London allows postal renewals for family members of EU citizens so long as it has not been more than a year since the last visa. If you are careful, you could renew continually by post from them.