AIT appeal for refusal of US citizen for entry to UK

Tashie80 · Post by **Tashie80** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:43 am

Hello

First time posting and hoping that somebody may have been in a similar situation. My partner (US citizen) and myself have been in a relationship for 2 1/2 years. For a while (since early 2008) we have been discussing spending a 'prolonged' period of time together because at the moment the most we get is 2-3 week trips every 3-4 months, however with MSN, Skype and calling cards we are in contact every spare minute of the day. However after many emails and phonecalls trying to gain advice on what our options are we took the advice to check the UKBA website. On this site is a questionnarie that you fill in to see if you need a visa, we completed it and it said NO he didnt need a visa to visit the UK for up to 6 months. We phone worldbridge to confirm this- which they did, so we booked the flight. He arrived on Nov 26th (thanksgiving and his birthday) only to be held for 5 hours and then to be refused entry. The immigration officer disliked the fact that he had resigned from his job (although both of us confirmed that he has a job offering commencing in May 2010- when his return ticket was booked for). When given my phone interview I answered honestly, explaining that the reason he chose to come here is mainly because I am completing my Bsc in intensive care nursing and have until sept 2010 to complete my dissertation- therefore unable to leave for a long period of time, he also confirmed this in the interview. Everything else asked was answered honestly and our answers were all the same- no discrepancies. However, they took his passport and made him return to the US on Nov 28th- Heartbreaking!! I spoke to the immigration department numerous times explaining that we had thought that we had done everything correctly and had followed the guidance on the websites we had been referred to, the immigration officer agreed that the information was not necessarily correct and that other people had been through similar situations- how can this be?!? I was also told that on my partners previous (and first ever) visit to the UK (April 09- for my bday) his passport had been double stamped?!? He had not been informed about this, and we are still left unsure why this happened and why noone had mentioned it to him before, although they used this to 'flag him up' on this trip, obvioulsy information that can be used against an individual- but why? We were also advised that he was not to try to come back anytime soon- why? That if he obtained a visa in the US they may still decline him entry when he gets to the UK- why?.... Anyhow (to the point of the question) he sent a fax to the AIT on the 27th Nov, stating that he felt discriminated against (double stamp in passport- amongst other things from the interview e.g. comments about his socio-economic status) and that his human rights were breached. They responded after he left with an appeal date for Feb 2010. I called to ask if the rep could be myself or does it have to be legal- they said I could rep for him. The questions this raises are:
1) What can they do to help- My partner is back in the US now, can they allow him to return? take the information/refusal of entry off his passport/immigration details?
2) Should I get a legal rep... im a nurse who works for the NHS so my knowledge af laws/legislations is not so great
3) If i do have to represent is it a very intimidating process?
and
4) Any advice on what to state in his witness statement/documentation bundle and should I submit a witness statement myself?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice

meats · Post by **meats** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:51 am

His human rights haven't been breached, it's not a human right to have automatic access to every country in the world. You're correct in that he doesn't need a visa to enter the UK and i'm surprised that he was questioned by immigration. Is there something that you haven't told us, such as a criminal record etc? As for your questions:

1) I don't think he'll get back to the UK until at least May 2010 after he's started his new job. The fact that he resigned from his job and then came over here doesn't help his cause as they might think that he will look for work here. It's all well and good saying that he won't but when he has a girlfriend in this country there's no real incentive for him to return. That might not be the case in your situation but the immigration officer might not agree and it will be them who will be in the shit if he does overstay and not you.

2) To clarify the double stamp perhaps, won't help with the refusal at immigration.

3) People have spoken about their experiences on here, use the search function.

4) You weren't present so i don't think you can submit a witness statement. Submit your phone conversation with them if you want.

Also you've posted this in the PSW section of the forum. He came here solely to visit or did he come to work? If he came to work then yes he does need a visa so if that's the case then the rejection was correct and you've got no chance whatsoever with an appeal.

Tashie80 · Post by **Tashie80** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:01 am

Oooops... Ive just seen that im in the PSW section- sorry. Thanks your your response anyhow. No he does not have a criminal record nor has he done anything (as far as we know) to warrent the double stamp. He did not come here with the intention to work and yes his girlfriend is in the UK but does not mean he doesnt have incentive to go home, inactual fact if all works out we will relocate to the US- immigration officers base everything on assumption and past experiences i guess but that really doesnt help the innocent who have been misadvised and then trapped in this horrendous system

meats · Post by **meats** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:15 am

Tashie80 wrote:Oooops... Ive just seen that im in the PSW section- sorry. Thanks your your response anyhow. No he does not have a criminal record nor has he done anything (as far as we know) to warrent the double stamp. He did not come here with the intention to work and yes his girlfriend is in the UK but does not mean he doesnt have incentive to go home, inactual fact if all works out we will relocate to the US- immigration officers base everything on assumption and past experiences i guess but that really doesnt help the innocent who have been misadvised and then trapped in this horrendous system

I don't blame you for wanting to get out of the UK. The fact that he resigned from his job and his new one doesn't start until May 2010 would've gone against him big time. That being said i'm still surprised that he was questioned by immigration, hence me asking whether there was something you hadn't told us such as a criminal record etc.

System is horrendous, we can thank Labour for that and they're multicultural experiment which has ruined this country beyond belief. No wonder Labour also got rid of the Treason Law because they'd all be banged up for life if they hadn't as soon as they are booted from power next year.

Post by **vinny** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:16 am

Tashie80 wrote:Oooops... Ive just seen that im in the PSW section- sorry.

Topic moved.

See also Help/advice needed for UK visiting visa

mochyn · Post by **mochyn** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:19 pm

Given that he was intending to stay in the UK for 6 months then finances may also be a factor.He has resigned his job so no regular income for the 6 months and if you are studying then they would estimate how much he would need to live on.Also if he was searched and found documents in his luggage or person that were work related then that would also be a reason for refusal.
An Australian who came to the UK was refused as she had brought a set of knives with her and she was a chef.Although she stated she was only going to cook for her friends and not look for work, she was not granted entry.
Remember a visa does not entitle you to enter the UK, you must satisfy the immigration officer

Tashie80 · Post by **Tashie80** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:15 pm

again we had this covered (or so we thought) he came with savings and also was due to receive regular monthly payments from his dad- which the officer called ad-hoc payments (another assumption for her) also i had details of my savings which they didnt ask for. Yes im studying but that is alongside a full time job. I earn a decent enough amount to fully support us and I also have the option of doing extra agency work, had money been that tight- all of this was expalined to the immigration officer. Anyhow, appreciating the advice but does anyone know what the AIT can do- they gave us a hearing, but is this just a paper pushing exercise with no chance of a good result for us?

mochyn · Post by **mochyn** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:41 pm

Never give up hope, there is always a chance that the refusal will be overturned by the tribunal.
If there is any further documentation that you think that they might need,supply it.
You cannot have too much documentation.
Make sure you have all the bases covered

Jack_Hammer · Post by **Jack_Hammer** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:07 pm

Here is my experience, MY GF was American, we stayed together over 2 years, she visited me in the UK a couple of times. The first time she visited me, the immigration officer asked her the purpose of her visit. We gave the same answers. They even called me when she arrived at the airport and asked, how we know each other, how long is she going to stay etc.
She told me that they were not very nice with her just because they are treated the same in the US.

I tell you, there is a lot of resentment when it comes to the US citizens entering the UK. However, if you provide all the details, and you are able to support yourself and the visitor... it is unlikely that they refuse entry. Most of the time, they refuse entry when one of you lie.

In any case, they suppose to provide a reason to decline entry.
________
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andyb123 · Post by **andyb123** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:37 am

Tashie80 wrote:again we had this covered (or so we thought) he came with savings and also was due to receive regular monthly payments from his dad- which the officer called ad-hoc payments (another assumption for her) also i had details of my savings which they didnt ask for. Yes im studying but that is alongside a full time job. I earn a decent enough amount to fully support us and I also have the option of doing extra agency work, had money been that tight- all of this was expalined to the immigration officer. Anyhow, appreciating the advice but does anyone know what the AIT can do- they gave us a hearing, but is this just a paper pushing exercise with no chance of a good result for us?

The problem with the AIT process is that they will only look at the evidence you submitted originally and make a call on wether the ECO was right to refuse based on that evidence, it's not a chance to re-submit new evidence... for that you need to make a fresh application

INSIDER · Post by **INSIDER** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:42 am

Tashie,

You should of course bear in mind that your boyfriend does not actually have a right of appeal against the decision of the IO to refuse him entry.S88/89 applies. His appeal will be confined to either a Human rights allegation that they have been breached in some way or a claim under the race relations act. To be honest HR is a very complicated area of law and given what you have said you may well wish to enrol the services of a qualified legal advisor if as it seems you feel strongly about the refusal.
However, my candid advice to you is to forget the appeal route,you may well be throwing good money away. Apply for a visit visa at the nearest UK consulate, make sure your boyfriend provides the consulate/embassy with all information to show that while he is in the UK he is a genuine visitor. Basically he will have to show that he has strong ties to his home country and therefore an incentive to return home at the end of his visit, confirmation from his employer will help here. He will also need to show evidence of his ability to support himself in the UK without recourse to public funds or employment. Your support and a letter from you as his sponsor would help.
Having this visa would almost certainly guarantee his entry. He could only be refused at the port of arrival on two grounds; either there has been a change of his purpose since issuance of the visa or a change of his circumstances. So, for example if he arrived at port and told the IO, or it was found out that that he wished to work in the UK that would amount to a change of purpose for which he would be refused with effectively no right of appeal. On the other hand if for example you withdrew your sponsorship because you fell out with him {lol} prior to his arrival but after the visa was issued then that is a change of circumstances forwhich he would be entitled to a full in-country right of appeal.
With regards to the "double-stamping" I am guessing you are talking about what in the trade we call a coded landing. If it is, then this tells me that on his arrival at that time there were doubts about his visit. How long did he visit for on that occasion? An IO is under no legal obligation to tell a passenger that they have been coded and it is certainly not regarded as discriminatory. Some IOs will happily tell a passenger they have been coded and explain the reason why, it all depends on the individual IO and the reason for coding.
Hope this candid advice helps.

@Jackhammer

Your claim that IOs[?] resent US nationals entering the UK is far too general. They don't. What they do resent is the US nationals who come to the UK and think that simply by virture of the fact they are US nationals they should be allowed entry. More often than not they don't feel they have to complete a landing card, they come completely unprepared; no evidence of support, no evidence of a return ticket, no contact details other than perhaps a phone number of a sponsor I can go on....

Meats

Because he is a non-visa national does not mean he is not subject to immigration control. IOs have the power to question all passengers subject to immigration control about the reason for their visit. The depth and length of questioning would normally depend on the person in front of the IO their reasons for coming to the UK and the answers to questions already asked.
Certainly, someone pitching up at the control and requesting the maximum time allowed to stay in the UK as a visitor with no visible or formal means of support would arouse suspicion and consequently in depth questioning. Remember in the rest of Europe the time allowed visitors is half that of the UK and that is throughout schengen on one visit so you cannot, for instance, stay three months in France and then move to Italy for a further period of time. Although I do know some countries are exempt from this rule because of reciprocal agreements.

meats · Post by **meats** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:52 am

INSIDER wrote: Meats

Because he is a non-visa national does not mean he is not subject to immigration control. IOs have the power to question all passengers subject to immigration control about the reason for their visit. The depth and length of questioning would normally depend on the person in front of the IO there reasons for coming to the UK and the answers to questions already asked.
Certainly, someone pitching up at the control and requesting the maximum time allowed to stay in the UK as a visitor with no visible or formal means of support would arouse suspicion and consequently in depth questioning. Remember in the rest of Europe the time allowed visitors is half that of the UK and that is throughout schengen on one visit so you cannot, for instance, stay three months in France and then move to Italy for a further period of time. Although I do know some countries are exempt from this rule because of reciprocal agreements.

I know that, i was just surprised that he was stopped at immigration being an American citizen. I'm guessing that he must've said something that triggered something off in the immigration official's mind when asked a question or 2 whilst getting his passport stamped. Only time i've been questioned at immigration control was in New Zealand and that was just asking if i had any shoes covered in mud that might harm their environment...oh and how long i intended to stay but i had an onward flight to Fiji so no problems there.

Tashie80 · Post by **Tashie80** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:09 am

Thank you for all your postings and information. Disapointly, Im still far from being with my boyfriend anytime soon as it seems the system has messed us up!! At present I doubt he would get a visa now as he is currently unemployed and presumably he would need 6 months of wage slips to take as proof of employment when applying for the visa. Had we been informed correctly initially he would still be in employment and would have current wage slips to produce, therefore giving us a better chance. Im just angry at the fact that we are just silenced with no one to talk to or complain to about the lack of information given to the regular civilian surrounding these situations. Why offer people the choice of coming for 6 months if that will cause concerns anyway, why not state that they advise you not to come for the whole duration that they offer. Why do they assume that everyone wants to overstay in this country (i know people do, but not everyone wants to)- i mean how are you to survive (as a decent law abiding person that is), you CANT rely on public funds as what proof of citizenship/unemployment will you have if your not legally supposed to be in this country?? I dunno, just dont seem to be able to progress or move on from this and it seems like we have to spend the next 6-8 months apart before we attempt anything else, so excuse me if i sound sad, miserable and angry (I am normally a happy person)....

meats · Post by **meats** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:12 am

Tashie80 wrote:Thank you for all your postings and information. Disapointly, Im still far from being with my boyfriend anytime soon as it seems the system has messed us up!! At present I doubt he would get a visa now as he is currently unemployed and presumably he would need 6 months of wage slips to take as proof of employment when applying for the visa. Had we been informed correctly initially he would still be in employment and would have current wage slips to produce, therefore giving us a better chance. Im just angry at the fact that we are just silenced with no one to talk to or complain to about the lack of information given to the regular civilian surrounding these situations. Why offer people the choice of coming for 6 months if that will cause concerns anyway, why not state that they advise you not to come for the whole duration that they offer. Why do they assume that everyone wants to overstay in this country (i know people do, but not everyone wants to)- i mean how are you to survive (as a decent law abiding person that is), you CANT rely on public funds as what proof of citizenship/unemployment will you have if your not legally supposed to be in this country?? I dunno, just dont seem to be able to progress or move on from this and it seems like we have to spend the next 6-8 months apart before we attempt anything else, so excuse me if i sound sad, miserable and angry (I am normally a happy person)....

To be fair to the UKBA and HO the information about visit visas is available on their websites and what is needed to satisfy immigration.

Tashie80 · Post by **Tashie80** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:13 am

@Insider
He came for 2 weeks in April. Also is it true that you have to wait 1 year after being refused to try to re-enter the country?

Thanks everyone, sorry for sounding so grumpy and negative earlier- it just gets me down sometimes ;-(

INSIDER · Post by **INSIDER** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:28 pm

Tashie80 wrote:@Insider
He came for 2 weeks in April. Also is it true that you have to wait 1 year after being refused to try to re-enter the country?

Thanks everyone, sorry for sounding so grumpy and negative earlier- it just gets me down sometimes ;-(

Not true, unless it is specifically mentioned on the refusal notice he would have been given. He could in theory have arrived the next day and sought entry.

However, if he is coming back then he must be able to satisfy the IO that he is a genuine visitor. If nothing has changed for the better since his last refusal then it is highly unlikely he would be granted entry. This is why it would be much better for him to apply for a visa before any future departure first. At least if it is refused he would not have lost his airfare and wasted time in flying halfway across the world.

INSIDER · Post by **INSIDER** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:36 pm

meats wrote:
INSIDER wrote: Meats

Because he is a non-visa national does not mean he is not subject to immigration control. IOs have the power to question all passengers subject to immigration control about the reason for their visit. The depth and length of questioning would normally depend on the person in front of the IO there reasons for coming to the UK and the answers to questions already asked.
Certainly, someone pitching up at the control and requesting the maximum time allowed to stay in the UK as a visitor with no visible or formal means of support would arouse suspicion and consequently in depth questioning. Remember in the rest of Europe the time allowed visitors is half that of the UK and that is throughout schengen on one visit so you cannot, for instance, stay three months in France and then move to Italy for a further period of time. Although I do know some countries are exempt from this rule because of reciprocal agreements.
I know that, i was just surprised that he was stopped at immigration being an American citizen. I'm guessing that he must've said something that triggered something off in the immigration official's mind when asked a question or 2 whilst getting his passport stamped. Only time i've been questioned at immigration control was in New Zealand and that was just asking if i had any shoes covered in mud that might harm their environment...oh and how long i intended to stay but i had an onward flight to Fiji so no problems there.

You are right on the money:

IO:How long are you here for?
Passenger: Six months

IO: Purpose of visit?
Passenger: To see my girlfriend

Any IO who chose not to pursue such an encounter further is in the wrong job.

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AIT appeal for refusal of US citizen for entry to UK

AIT appeal for refusal of US citizen for entry to UK