Visitor Visa Refused

[Enquirer77]

My Uzbekistan girlfriend has just been refused a Visitor Visa to come to visit me in the UK. I am a Bitish citizen. The reason given by the consul was that he was not satisfied that she would return to her country at the end of her stay. He believed that we would suddenly get married and she would stay here.

First of all, I didn't think that was possible. i.e if a visitor marrried here, she would still need to return to her country and we'd have to apply for a fiance visa before she could remain in the UK? Secondly, I thought that as a minimum we'd at least need a Certificate of Approval before a marrriage could take place. Should we appeal against the decision?

Our intention was an initial friendly visit for her to the UK, followed by a visit from me to Uzbekistan, then we would decide about marriage.

We're both very upset that we've fallen at the first hurdle but we love each other very much and want to find another way forward.

I can visit her and she's already applied for an invitation for me to apply for a private visitor visa. Alternatively, I can apply for a tourist visa without an invitation.

We don't know now whether it's just best to apply for a fiance visa and see what the response is? I'm concerned that if we married in Uzbekistan, we might be refused a spouse visa following a marriage and we'd be stuck in different countries. How likely is that?

Can anyone recomend the best way forward?

[John]

Lack of "reason to return" is not an uncommon reason for rejection in your situation. Can I ask, what evidence was provided in support of the fact that she had good reasons to return to her country?

If there was no evidence showing she would indeed return before the end of the visa period then it is not surprising that the application for a VV was rejected.

But you are quite right to think that it is now impossible for the holder of a VV to get married in the UK. But nevertheless that does not in itself prove that she would return to her country.

You do not say how long the two of you have known each other. What is clear is that no one should get married merely to ease the visa situation. But as you mention marriage let's discuss that sort of thing.

Both fiancée and spouse visas are types of settlement visa. That is, the person is expected to settle in the UK. So immediately you will see that there is no question of providing evidence of "reason to return". Indeed just the opposite! It needs to be clear that the two of you love each other and she intends to live in the UK with you.

So the positive thought is .. the rejected VV application certainly shows that the relationship was on-going at a particular point in time. So rather than the rejected VV application harming any subsequent application for a settlement visa ... indeed the opposite could well be true!

I have not got a clue about how a British Citizen goes about marrying in Uzbekistan. But if that is not too much of a hurdle to jump over .... and the two of you are going to marry anyway ... well why not get married there? Doing so means that it would not be necessary later to convert a fiancée visa into a spouse visa in the UK ... application cost £335 by post or £500 in person at a PEO. It would also mean she could work in the UK as soon as she gets here, rather than after the marriage and the grant of the spouse visa in the UK.

But for any application for a settlement visa ... you will need to provide financial evidence to show that she will not need to claim certain Public Funds .... that the accommodation is suitable and certainly not overcrowded ... and that there is good "evidence of contact" ... to show that it is not a "marriage of convenience".

But if marriage is something for the future, you might true again for a VV .... but with better evidence of her "reason to return". She has a job to go back to? She owns any land?

[Enquirer77]

We have known each other for 3 months. My girlfriend is divorced and has a 12 year old son in her custody, So I thought this would be a sufficient reason for her to return. She doesn't work at present.

When I sent her my letter of invitation, it was accompanied by lots of documentary evidence showing my ability to support her. As you said, this is vital for a fiance or spouse visa application but not good evidence of a reason for her to return.

Certainly marriage is not being used here to ease a visa application. We are in love and we want meet to develop our relationship further and then decide if we want to marry. The visitor visa was supposed to facilitate that meeting.

I believe that at least one visit is required before we can apply for a fiance visa, so it is important that I now visit her in Uzbekistan and then return again for another visit to apply for the fiance visa.

If we marry in Uzbekistan, I am still worried that we might be refused a spouse visa. Is refusal of a spouse visa common?

[John]

A few points. Firstly as regards the "reason to return" I can well understand why the VV was declined. OK she has a son but presumably someone else will look after the son while she is in the UK. So who is to say the person won't just continue to look after him?

I believe that at least one visit is required before we can apply for a fiancée visa

Am I misinterpreting this? Have the two of you actually met? In the sense of being in the same room and looking at each other eyeball to eyeball?

If not well yes it certainly is a requirement that the two of you have actually met before a settlement visa is applied for. But if you have not actually met, then aren't the two of you rushing this a bit?

Coming back to the son! What would be the intention if she gets a settlement visa? Would he also move to the UK? That is, would a child settlement visa be applied for? In which case, does she currently have Sole Custody of her son? Because without that no settlement visa would be issued for the son.

Settlement visa turned down? If the tests ... financial ... accommodation ... "evidence of contact" ... are passed then there is no reason for the settlement visa application to be turned down.

[Wanderer]

I believe that at least one visit is required before we can apply for a fiance visa, so it is important that I now visit her in Uzbekistan and then return again for another visit to apply for the fiance visa.

You need to have met and until you have what you do have amounts to no more than a penfriend.

Take a look around the forums on http://www.rwguide.com and learn something about women from the Former Soviet Union. My gf is russian and belive me face time is important before you can move on from the penfriend stage.

Two quick nuggets of advice - don't send her money and don't fall in love with a virtual person, it could be a Fat Yuri trying to relive you of your cash.

And speak to her on the phone.

Steve

[Wanderer]

Couple of other things:

If an Uzb. private visa is anything like a Russian Private Visa (and it prolly is) don't bother, takes too long and she would have to provide so much info and proof os earnings, property ownerships, permissions if rented, waivers if you cost Uzbek Gov money etc.....

Tourist visa easier but you should be aware, agan if Ubz has not changed their visa rules from Soviet days a visitor visa is for 30 days and to marry you need to have been resident for over 30 days. Catch 22!

Check with thier consulate tho...

Steve

[philgeorge999]

>My Uzbekistan girlfriend has just been refused a Visitor Visa to come to
>visit me in the UK. I am a Bitish citizen. The reason given by the consul
>was that he was not satisfied that she would return to her country at the
>end of her stay. He believed that we would suddenly get married and
>she would stay here.

If someone applying for a UK visitors visa admits that they have a girlfriend/boyfriend/fiance in Britain then they will be rejected 90% of the time. From 3rd world countries, rejections are more like 99% of the time. Never EVER admit to romantic attachments on a visitors visa application. The automatic assumption of consular officials is always that the applicant will overstay in Britain.

>First of all, I didn't think that was possible. i.e if a visitor marrried here,
>she would still need to return to her country

No, many people from poor countries do just stay on illegally once they're here.

>We don't know now whether it's just best to apply for a fiance visa and
>see what the response is? I'm concerned that if we married in
>Uzbekistan, we might be refused a spouse visa following a marriage
>and we'd be stuck in different countries. How likely is that?

You could apply for a fiancee visa provided you can convince them that you know each other well. Fiancee visa applications from 3rd world countries are non-trivial, though much easier than visitors visas.

You can marry in Uzbekistan if you like... but before doing so, check with the British mission there that they accept such marriages, and ask what evidence they would require.

[Enquirer77]

Thanks John!
No, the two of us have not met face to face yet, The purpose of the VV was to arrange the first meeting and a stay of several weeks in the UK. The next visit was to be some months later so that I could meet her family, then after that we would decide about marriage. The whole timsescale would potentially be something like 9 months before a possible marriage. We have spoken on the phone several times

Yes, she has sole custody of the son and we would be bringing him to the UK.

She has also had to make two arduous trips to the Britosh Embassy in Almaty, Kazakhstan because the British Embassy in Tashkent, Uzbekistan is now not processing visa applications.

[olisun]

have a look at this thread also

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=6219

[John]

No, the two of us have not met face to face yet, The purpose of the VV was to arrange the first meeting and a stay of several weeks in the UK.

Hey get real here! You have not even met face-to-face and already the subject of marriage has come up!

Long-distance relationships are fraught with potential problems. I should know ... my wife is from Thailand .... and we indeed first "met" chatting on ICQ .... and then on the phone ... then I flew to meet her in Thailand ... and as they say ... the rest is history!

Now at least for Thailand UK citizens do not need to obtain a visa before arriving. 30 days permission to stay in the country is granted on arrival. But you have chosen to start a relationship with a Uzbekistan person so you have the added complication that not only does she need a visa to come to the UK ... and you have already discovered that is not straight forward ..... but also you need a visa to visit her! Oh such joy!

You have probably already discovered the website of the Uzbekistan Embassy in the UK. Much guidance there. As a general principle you will find it distinctly easier to get a visa to visit her, compared to her getting a visa to visit you. I am surprised you even considered doing it the other way round. Yet another reason why her UK VV application was rejected!

The advice must be ... you get a visa to visit her .... indeed do visit her .... and slow down ... only after meeting in person should there be talk of marriage or anything like that. After you have visited her then there is a better chance that a well-prepared visitor visa application might succeed. I suspect that the previous effort did not come close to being well-prepared.

The two of you speak on the telephone? If you are paying more than 4p per minute for those calls then do say and I shall point you in the right direction.

If someone applying for a UK visitors visa admits that they have a girlfriend/boyfriend/fiancé in Britain then they will be rejected 90% of the time. From 3rd world countries, rejections are more like 99% of the time. Never EVER admit to romantic attachments on a visitors visa application. The automatic assumption of consular officials is always that the applicant will overstay in Britain.

Phil, I don't think it quite that bad, but it is certainly very difficult. Which is why I emphasise above about the need for the application to be well-prepared. I know of quite a few people who have successfully obtained VVs for their girlfriends, or boyfriends, in Bangkok and that was even with a full admission of a "romantic attachment".

Indeed I would say that no one should ever lie when making a visa application. As they say .... get caught in the lie and wave the visa goodbye! The ECOs in the British Missions are not daft ..... they know that people could well be romantically attached ... pretending that is not the case stops any chance of a visa.

[Enquirer77]

My girlfriend has already applied for my private visitor invitation through the OVIR office, processing time 1 month. Then it goes to the Ministry of Internal Affairs and hopefully after another 5 days they then send rhe invitation to the Uzbekistan embassy in London, who in turn send the invitation tome,rhen I can apply for the visa.This visa should be valid for 6 months. Alternatively, I could apply for a tourist visa, valid for 30 days, without an invitation. This can be obtained within 3 days.

I plan to visit in mid Jan. I'll let you know what happens.

John, regarding the cheaper phone charges, were you going to suggest Skype.com? Free Internet phonecalls.

[John]

Hope the visa application all works out.

regarding the cheaper phone charges, were you going to suggest Skype.com? Free Internet phonecalls

With Skype do you get a detailed list of the calls made? In other words, thinking ahead to when she applies for a UK visa, is there good evidence of the calls being made? "Evidence of contact" is very important.

Skype? Do the two of you both have broadband? If not, is the call quality OK?

I was actually going to draw your attention to this excellent website where lots of cheap providers are listed. We regularly look at the Thailand page on that site. We are currently paying just 1p per minute for calls from the UK to Thailand ... both landlines and mobiles. Amazing!

[Enquirer77]

John,
Thanks for the phone info.
I have loaded the free Skype software but we have not been able to try it yet. My girlfriend does not have Broadband and I think the speech quality will not be good without it. I tried the test recording on mine and even that had dropouts. I'm not sure about the call logging but we certainly keep copies of all our correspondence and my BT phone bills.

[Wanderer]

My girlfriend has already applied for my private visitor invitation through the OVIR office, processing time 1 month. Then it goes to the Ministry of Internal Affairs and hopefully after another 5 days they then send rhe invitation to the Uzbekistan embassy in London, who in turn send the invitation tome,rhen I can apply for the visa.This visa should be valid for 6 months. Alternatively, I could apply for a tourist visa, valid for 30 days, without an invitation. This can be obtained within 3 days.

Please believe me with regard to private visas - they are next t oimpossible to get, dealing wiht OVIR is a nightmare, belive me. My girlfriend made eight visits to OVIR in an attempt to get me a private visa (early days!) and we gave up - OVIR is world famous for it's innefficiency.

Go tourist visa.

I met my gf via similar channels to John and he's spot on. I don't care how many emails you've exchanged or phone call you've made, you won't know will you meet. Till then she's a penfriend. Don't go over the top, I've seen hundreds who have.

This is not a the forum for this tho, try:

www.rwguide.com

www.russianwomendiscussion.com

and if you can read Russian (can you?):\

www.antidate.com from the girls perspective..

Steve