can an illegal has been student of ireland get marrige legal

[essex_builders]

i have been student of ireland,due to visa expirement i became illegal.now a days i am living illega in ireland.i have a polish lady to whom i want to get marriage.can i get marriage with her legaly.
what kind of documents i need.as i have pps,bank accounts.
will they give me permission for marriage or not.as i have been a previous students before becoming an illegal.pls help me.

[Ben]

i have a polish lady to whom i want to get marriage.

Is she your girlfriend then?

[scrudu]

i have been student of ireland,due to visa expirement i became illegal.now a days i am living illega in ireland.i have a polish lady to whom i want to get marriage.can i get marriage with her legaly.
what kind of documents i need.as i have pps,bank accounts.
will they give me permission for marriage or not.as i have been a previous students before becoming an illegal.pls help me.

Sigh .. getting kinda tired of seeing posts like this on this Board .. seems to be a lot of people trying to legitimise their illegal status by marrying EU citizens. Seems that the DoJ may have been right when they spouted about the "risk of marriages of convenience" .. despite the fact that it affected legitimate couples negatively.

[ciaramc]

I was thinking the same thing the post is suspicious...I think the DoJ should be allowed to check if married couples live together if there is suspicion that it is a marriage of convenience......they do it all the time in Italy!

But are you allowed to get married in Ireland if your illegal? I would think not?

[scrudu]

I was thinking the same thing the post is suspicious...I think the DoJ should be allowed to check if married couples live together if there is suspicion that it is a marriage of convenience......they do it all the time in Italy!

But are you allowed to get married in Ireland if your illegal? I would think not?

There are no checks on your immigration status when marrying in Ireland. There were plans to do so, but that bill was never passed. I agree on the checks being a good idea, but lots of training and funding would be required to expand the DoJ's role to cover this. Not likely any time soon
Personally I don't think it's enough to check whether a couple are living together, but that they have an established relationship history.

[Obie]

Wow wow i am feeling quite intoxicated now.

I don't believe any contributor should be ostracised from the forum for seeking advise, however much that advise clashes with our moral views of things.

Just for the record:

I am strongly against marriages of convenience and abuse of rights. But i don't think myself or anyone in this forum is qualified to judge anyone motive here.

Article 35
Abuse of rights
Member States may adopt the necessary measures to refuse,
terminate or withdraw any right conferred by this Directive in
the case of abuse of rights or fraud, such as marriages of convenience.
Any such measure shall be proportionate and subject to
the procedural safeguards provided for in Articles 30 and 31.

If you and your girlfriend are in a genuine relationship and your reasons for seeking the partnership are not simply for the rights, why should you not be allowed to get married, simply because you cannot show several years bank statement or bills or joint mortgage.Bollocks.

[ciaramc]

Obie - We are not ostracising anyone...I said I didn't know if someone can get married while illegal in Ireland...in Italy the rules have now changed so you no longer can...we are simply commenting that his post left a little to be desired???? And did not describe his future wife or girlfriend simply a "Polish lady friend"???? This set off a few bells for me!

I totally agree with checking out these marriages.....the system is being abused alot and it is the genuine couples and family members who are suffering!

[Obie]

Ciara i cannot bring myself to accuse you of any wrong doing. I was just expressing a thought. Which might be wrong.

What you said is quite a good observation. However i noted on the duplicated post he sent, he stated his Polish girlfriend.

If he is trying to engage in any abusive or violation of rights activities, you could be rest assured i will not tolerate or accommodate it for a minute .

Remember i am in the system. So i know what it feels like, to know that punitive measures are being applied to you because of other peoples actions.

[D1mitry]

I totally agree with checking out these marriages.....the system is being abused alot and it is the genuine couples and family members who are suffering!

A fairly justified but problematic position though. An honourable immigration ministersuggested watching polish/lithuanian female populus as a hot product on the marriage convenience market. Equally, should JFK immigration personnel search Irish travellers for signs of one way trip in the light of the illegal irish in the states plight? Dont trhow the water with the baby, no more not less.

Abuse is imminent, no matter how hard the legislation. implementing the system that will first deprive immigrants before robbing own people of freedoms is a risky and potentially self-harmful business.

[scrudu]

Wow wow i am feeling quite intoxicated now.
I don't believe any contributor should be ostracised from the forum for seeking advise, however much that advise clashes with our moral views of things

Obie: Seriously, get off your high horse. No one is ostracising anyone. And it is not that the OP is "clashing with moral views", the fact is that it sounds like the OP is seeking to do something illegal. I am sure the terms of use on this site discourage this

If you and your girlfriend are in a genuine relationship and your reasons for seeking the partnership are not simply for the rights, why should you not be allowed to get married, simply because you cannot show several years bank statement or bills or joint mortgage.Bollocks.

No one is discussing about whether they should be allowed get married or not. The point is whether a person should be granted Immigration status simply on the fact they have married an EU citizen, if the reason this marriage was contracted was to get a visa. This is called a "marriage of convenience" and should be prevented.

Another message by the same poster said the following:

i have been a student of ireland ,then ia came in uk without visa,now again i came in ireland but still living illegal immigrant,bcoz extention date of my visa is expired.
i have my gir friend.can i get marriage with her legaly as i am now illega.so plz what kind of docouments i need.
i have pps.banck details every things

So this person has entered the UK illegally, then had re-entered Ireland illegally, and direcly states that he wishes to marry his girlfriend because he is now illegal. As far as I can read this poster is looking for advice to carry out a Marriage of Convenience. As I and many other posters on this site were put through a million hoops and rings to "prevent marriages of convenience" I have a personal as well as philosophical issue with those who have caused Immigration Authorities be so cautious.

[Obie]

Obie: Seriously, get off your high horse. No one is ostracising anyone. And it is not that the OP is "clashing with moral views", the fact is that it sounds like the OP is seeking to do something illegal. I am sure the terms of use on this site discourage this

What high horse. To the contrary. If i ever get the opportunity of meeting you, you will realise i am nothing of the sort.

I do think you are using strong legalistic language for something you have little or no proof about.

I was simply expressing my thought, which is perfectly within my rights and not accusing anyone of anything

No one is discussing about whether they should be allowed get married or not. The point is whether a person should be granted Immigration status simply on the fact they have married an EU citizen, if the reason this marriage was contracted was to get a visa. This is called a "marriage of convenience" and should be prevented.

That is fine, suggest to the EU commissioner to remove the rights of family member from obtaining residency through their marriage, or implement probationary period. Fine by me. I have always said, if i find an Irish girl i like, i will not give the authority the satisfaction of scrutinizing our relationship. He or she can come to my home country.

However ,as has been ruled by UK judges, in the COA cases. No authority should have the right of restricting someone regardless of their status from getting married. It is a human right.

So this person has entered the UK illegally, then had re-entered Ireland illegally, and direcly states that he wishes to marry his girlfriend because he is now illegal. As far as I can read this poster is looking for advice to carry out a Marriage of Convenience. As I and many other posters on this site were put through a million hoops and rings to "prevent marriages of convenience" I have a personal as well as philosophical issue with those who have caused Immigration Authorities be so cautious.

If you care to read his statement carefully, you will realise he had an Irish student visa, which for reasons best known to him, he failed to renew. Therefore he entered the state legally.

If you have any concrete/ undisputable evidence that his relationship to the girlfriend is purely to obtain a residency and not even 1 % is out of love for his girlfriend or there is a relationship existing. I might me compelled to retract some of my earlier statement.

Until such a time, i maintain my view that i think the OP appears to be ostracised by some member, whose names i didn't mention incidentally, on the forum.

[El shaddai]

I am in support of Obie 100%, why some members like to judge people through their stories and problems? why cant they give an advice to the OP or remain silent forever rather than pokenosing into people s private life. This is not good enough and guys need to always think twice before they say anything about anybodies life.Give advice if you can or mind your own business.Good day!!!

[scrudu]

I do think you are using strong legalistic language for something you have little or no proof about.

As with any poster on this site, the only information anyone has to go on, is the information offered by the poster him/herself. I have read and re-read both posts by the OP and believe he has clearly stated that he wishes to gain residency by marrying his girlfriend simply to change his current illegal status.

If you care to read his statement carefully, you will realise he had an Irish student visa, which for reasons best known to him, he failed to renew. Therefore he entered the state legally.

Incorrect. He presumably entered Ireland legally (no evidence in post) but at least he had a Student visa at some point. He then travelled illegally to the UK and then returned to Ireland. When he returned to Ireland his visa status was at that point expired, so his re-entry to Ireland was illegal. His other posts on this forum requesting information about whether it's possible to visit Belfast from the ROI without ID checks suggests how he did that.

If you have any concrete/ undisputable evidence that his relationship to the girlfriend is purely to obtain a residency and not even 1 % is out of love for his girlfriend or there is a relationship existing. I might me compelled to retract some of my earlier statement.

I think his post quite clearly displays this. You do not need me to invent information. I as you can only rely on the information given by the OP. Notice also that the OP has not made one comment on this thread. Had he posted to add further information that he was in fact in a relationship and was considering marriage for reasons other than to get to stay in Ireland legally, i may reconsider my opinion. Based on his posts so far, it looks very unlikely at this time.

Until such a time, i maintain my view that i think the OP appears to be ostracised by some member, whose names i didn't mention incidentally, on the forum.

Since only Ciaramac and I responded, I'm guessing it's one or both of us. If you look at the definition of the word ostracise Obie, I think you will find it quite clear that no one is ostracising him. I started my comments by saying how tired I was getting of people looking for advise on how to legitimise their Illegal status in EU States by marrying EU citizens. Ostracise has nothing to do with it.

1. to exclude, by general consent, from society, friendship, conversation, privileges, etc.: His friends ostracized him after his father's arrest.
2. to banish (a person) from his or her native country; expatriate.
3. (in ancient Greece) to banish (a citizen) temporarily by popular vote.

El Shadai: The forum is meant to be a place to share information and advise between forum members. It is not intended to be a place where people can engage in illegal activities. I see no reason to remain silent simply because I do not wish to help a person should they wish to engage in illegal behaviour. Stand by if you want, but don't ask me to do so. See also, Basic Rules for Members (and all other users): reads (http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=3)

3. There can be no 'discussion' or 'advice' regarding how to engage in illegal activities (such as but not limited to: how to illegally acquire copyrighted material, work permits, visas, passports or other documents), and no links to websites providing such information.

[Obie]

Scrudu, with all due respect ,i think you are blindly angry and prone to being quite judgmental. You also appear quite abrasive and confrontational.

By definition, to Ostracise: is to banish, exclude, snub , shunning .

By any yardstick, some of the responses that the OP has been receiving, especially from you, fits perfectly well into that description, wouldn't you say ?

You talk about, "Tired of seeing these type of posts", "Illegal trying to legalise their status", "seem the DOJ was right when they spouted about marriage of convenience" were not very subtle, were they?

Some of the languages you used are very rabid in there nature, and are of the sort i will not even expect to here from the Irish who are bending over backwards to get their undocumented citizens living in the US legalised.

Incidentally, those people in the USA are committing a criminal act by virtue of their presence in the USA, and the Irish are still supporting their decriminalisation.

It serves no justifiable purpose swotting up those garbage from Irish tabloids and irresponsible broadsheets and regurgitating it on a forum. A place where everyone should feel welcome.

I have reservations about some of the posts i read, and i have reserved my right on several occasion not to comment on the ones i feel are seeking advise on unscrupulous activities. As the previous contributor suggested.

Therefore i will strongly suggest you consider doing the same, in the interest of the forum.

If however you think the activities are illegal and breech/contravene any criminal code in the Irish constitution, feel free to report them to the forum authorities, whom i am sure will duly assess the post and take appropriate actions.

[El shaddai]

Scrudu,all i care is that you should talk to people with respect and dont be a Chief Judge ok? just calm down and stop taking things personal.

[archigabe]

I think it's everyone's responsibility to keep the discussions on this forum on a civil and LEGAL basis. I don't see how scrudu can be described as abrasive or disrespectful when she's questioning someone's motives based on the information provided.
I don't see why others on this forum need to get defensive when all she's done is point out what seems on the face of it to be a request for information to commit something unlawful.

[Ben]

I think it's everyone's responsibility to keep the discussions on this forum on a civil and LEGAL basis. I don't see how scrudu can be described as abrasive or disrespectful when she's questioning someone's motives based on the information provided.
I don't see why others on this forum need to get defensive when all she's done is point out what seems on the face of it to be a request for information to commit something unlawful.

Agreed.

essex_builders asks an ambiguous question about a controversial subject and then fails to clarify his position when asked. He ignores the thread only to create a new thread enquiring how to cross international borders without ID.

It's pretty clear to me that his aim isn't exactly true.

There's also a bit of pot calling the kettle black going around. A dose of cop-on wouldn't go amiss.

[Obie]

I am frankly speaking quite flabbergasted by the barrage of personal insult and the level of biased opinions I have received on this thread, from people I held in the highest esteem and had unequivocal respect and admiration for.

To those our sanctimonious contributors, I profoundly apologise for any perceived uneasiness I may have caused you. And I wholly apologise for standing up for someone who intends to contaminate your superior gene pool.

The difference between me and the OP is a piece of paper bearing my beloved sister’s name, which in its absence or availability I will still love her. Does that make me or any one of you better in any way than him? Absolutely not. Why should his unfortunate predicament of not been in possession of that “Passport to heavenâ€

[scrudu]

Obie, I have no idea why you feel the need to speak for the OP. Since he started this and multiple other posts, I think he is well capable of speaking for himself and his intentions.

I asked you to get down from your high horse as I didn't like the tone of your post and the attitude you took with Ciaramac (and possibly to me). I found your posts on this topic completely over the top, exhausting to read, and the last two here have vered so off the topic I have no idea what you are referring to (Irish supporing Irish illegals in US, beloved and accidents of birth having relevance on marriage?, barrage of personal insult? Who where??). If you found my comment about getting down off your high horse personally insulting, then I apologise.

I think it incongrous to suggest that your responses "were not directed at anyone in particular". You can say that "I didn't mention names directly" but since there's only been a handful of posters to this thread it's clear who your comments are directed towards. Who specifically they were directed at one could debate, but not the fact that they were directed at anyone in particular.

I strongly believe in saying nothing, if I am unable to say something edifying or positive to an individual in distress or members of the human race.

ehhh what?? Perhaps you should re-read your posts on this topic!

I'd like you to note also that at no point did I direct any personal remarks towards you and kept my posts to discuss the topic of the thread. Unfortunately I can't say the same for you. Apparently I am "abrasive and confrontational. Also I am "blindly angry and prone to being judgemental". And all this intuited from two posts. Amazing! And you have the nerve to comment about being being "personally insulted" and suffering from a "barrage of abuse"? What?? ehh .. Pot .. kettle ...??

I think at this stage, this topic has gotten complete off topic. If you wish to help the OP with his questions, then do so. I'm not sure why you've turned this thread into a debate with those who responded to the topic. Speaking for myself, I'm out of this one.

[Obie]

Scrudu, in a Nut Shell, i don't want to get into any argument with you or anybody else for that matter.

All we are trying to do, is to plead to your compassionate nature, not to make Judgmental statement about someone who requested advise on how to get married to their girlfriend when their status in the state is not regularise.

The question that was asked to him was answered, albeit in a different thread.

This is starting to get pretty messy, and lots of misunderstand is starting to develop.

I also found it unfortunate that the thread were he clarified his relationship with the lady was not found, but the one where he was asking about Identity requirement for traveling to the UK was.

I shall not be commenting anymore on this.

[Adam/Sophie]

Obie can you give advice on getting Eu fm card for my husband i am auk citizen and he non eu i am a active jobseeker on swa waiting for an appel decision on jobseekers allowance. thanks

[csr]

friends, take it easy.

did you abserve, this essex_builders starts thread on a contraversial subject and never replies to any question. he just read all the replies. I think moderator should have a look at it and ban this member.