Forged Visa

Jed · Post by **Jed** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:02 pm

My Ukrainian fiancee did not return to the Ukraine when her visa expired in April. I decided not to marry her when I discovered that she was only using me to stay in the UK.

Within two weeks of the expiry of her fiancee visa she informed me that she had obtained a business visa for 12 months. I was immediately suspicious and reported this to the Home Office. She also obtained a business visa for a male friend in the Ukraine who joined her in the UK in the summer. She has now admitted to me that she paid a substantial sum of money for a forged visa for herself and her friend. She has also hinted that she may arrange for others to come here illegally from Ukraine. She's also working illegally and earning a very large tax free income which she is transferring to the Ukraine on a regular basis.

It's now been 7 months since I informed the Home Office of this, and so far no action has been taken. In the interim she has accrued substantial savings which are safely deposited in the Ukraine. I'm extremely angry she is being allowed to get away with this. I'm now thinking of going directly to the police, but they may just refer me back to the Home Office. This is extremely frustrating. Do you have any suggestions about what other action I can take? Is it normal for the Home Office to be this sluggish in taking action against blatant abusers of the immigration system?

Any advice would be welcome.

Post by **John** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:00 pm

Jed, how do you know the visa was forged? Why I ask that is that visas don't just exist in the person's passport .... they also exist in the IND computer system.

So when the person arrives in the UK using that visa it would have been scanned .... and if indeed it was forged .... well the person would not have got into the UK. So suspect you are not being told the whole story.

Working illegally? Same issue ... if the visa is real then she would not be illegal would she.

Jed · Post by **Jed** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:38 pm

John

All I know is what she's told me. She told me the visas were forged. Why would she lie about this? Also there is no way she would have been issued with a business visa legally, or any visa for that matter. Her friend had a visa application rejected last year and she said she arranged for a forged business visa for him so he wouldn't have to go through the Embassy in Kiev again. She hasn't left the UK, therefore her passport hasn't yet been scanned.

I don't understand about the IND records. If a visa is forged surely the IND wouldn't have a record of this; and if it's a good forgery it could get through scanning equipment.

Post by **John** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:30 pm

Why would she lie about this?

As a wind-up? If so, it seems to be working!

If a visa is forged surely the IND wouldn't have a record of this; and if it's a good forgery it could get through scanning equipment.

These days a UK EC has the same sort of characters as on the name/pic of your British passport. A bar code is probably not correct technically but it is that sort of thing. So when the ECO at the UK port of entry scans the visa he/she should get confirmation of that visa on their computer screen. So as you say .... "the IND wouldn't have a record of this" .... exactly! The IND computer system would fail to find it! For the person presenting that false visa, well lets just say it would be a big problem!

Now if it is the case that someone is being bribed to issue real (real in the sense that they are in the IND computer system) visas, well that is more credible ... well as regards the person succeeding in getting through immigration control at the UK port of entry. But would staff in a British Mission stoop to that? If that is being suggested then I suspect the Home Office would be rather interested!

Kayalami · Post by **Kayalami** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:52 pm

There have been cases of ECO's issuing genuine visas overseas to those not deserving of such...the old adage of every man/woman has their price in action.

Jed...you've done your duty as a good citizen.. best to leave it at that and get on with your life. Afterall you've had a narrow escape. Try to learn from the experience and make sure you know your intended spouse as best as you can before taking things further.

The media often point to such marriages being sham but theere are plenty of sham marriages between British Citizens on other (read non immigration) grounds to include the pretty young girl waiting for the rich old man to kick the proverbial bucket. In any case IND resources have to be utilised appropriatley i.e. they can't chase everyone...at some point in time her come uppance will occur. Take care.

Jed · Post by **Jed** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:40 pm

John

I don't think she's winding me up. From her information and my own knowledge, and her reaction when I confronted her with this, I have no doubt at all that both her and her friend's visas are fraudulent. However, your reply is certainly very interesting. I didn't know about the airport visa scanning process.

She certainly obtained her visa in the UK. I know this for sure. I also got the impression that her friend sent his visa to her to obtain the visa stamp and then it was returned to him in the Ukraine.

I think the problem may lie here in the UK and not in the Mission in Kiev. The implication of this is that Home Office staff can be 'bought'. It hardly instils me with confidence in the system; it may explain their inaction over the last 7 months. It's also possible an investigation may take this long. Conspiracy theories abound.

I'm unsure now whether to go to the police or leave it in the hands of the Home Office.

anonymous10 · Post by **anonymous10** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:55 am

The HO might be carrying out a covert investigation and people might be under surveillance already. You never know. I would not expect HO to give a great deal of publicity if they have not identified everybody involved in the fraud. I would advise you to hang onto the copy of the complaint you filed and leave the rest to the HO.

rogerroger · Post by **rogerroger** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:34 am

for a corrupt person visas could be a lucrative business.

issual of a visa for x thousand pounds (tax free) is quite an incentive for a corrupt person

Jed · Post by **Jed** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:14 pm

The frustrating thing is ,apart from the criminality of the visa stuff, is that she's working part time illegally and earning a substantial income which she's stashing away in the Ukraine; tax free of course. The dragging out of this affair gives out the wrong signal to other future abusers of the system; and is a slap in the face to genuine visa applicants, and UK citizens who fund the Home Offfice out of their taxes.

Sometimes justice has to be seen to be done.

However, I'll leave it with the HO.

Thankyou for all your contributions and a Merry Christmas.

Smit · Post by **Smit** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:22 pm

Jed,

I understand your frustrations mate.

Funnily enough, I have a new person working in my team who was previously working in the compliance and removals department at IND in Croydon.

She was telling me that they used to get thousands if not millions of letters every day about immigration offences and that they simply didn't have the resources to investigate into each and every one of them. Although many were valid complaints and led to removals, a good number were also spiteful or false (e.g. by jealous relatives, friends, business partners, neighbours etc).

If she's drawing income illegally, you may also want to alert HMRC about possible tax offences and remind IND about your former complaints.

Smit

Jed · Post by **Jed** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:57 pm

Hi Smit

I wondered if the IND were being overwhelmed.

There's no point in me writing any more to the IND. I've written several letters with information and even got my MP to write to them.

However, I'll look into the tax question. I assume the HMRC is the Tax Office.

Thanks

kp1 · Post by **kp1** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:05 pm

can you not contact the police to speed things up? i mean, clearly you are quite keen on getting this woman 'sorted'

Post by **John** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:53 pm

Jed, HMRC = Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs = the combined Inland Revenue + Customs & Excise. The merger took place earlier this calendar year.

lemess · Post by **lemess** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:06 pm

I echo that thought re: the police.shouldn't they be the first port of call when you suspect someone may be breaking the law ? I guess they coud involve the IND or HO should they feel necessary.

Of course the police would be subject to the same resource constraints as arguably they are busy solving murders and the like but if nothing else is working it may be worth trying.

buntosanya · Post by **buntosanya** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:11 pm

Jed

Why don't you just let her be and forget what she did to you and move on.

About her being caught, fine if it is so destined. If not mother luck has smiled on her and i don't really think you should go out of your way to pay her back in her own coin.

IMHO, don't forget what goes round comes round. humn

yodiyokun · Post by **yodiyokun** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:18 am

Jeds, I think kayalami and bunto are right.
You have done the needful by informing the HO. I think you should divert your energies to somewhere else and forget her.

Jed · Post by **Jed** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:38 am

I wasn't going to reply again to this post thread. However I want to answer some of the points made.

I appreciate what you are saying about letting things be and getting on with life. However, my point is that, leaving aside my own perceived personal injuries, she has committed several criminal offences, including the serious one of 'facilitation', ie people smuggling. Moreover, in the 7 months since I informed the Home Office of this, she has been earning illegally a substantial income (certainly more than I earn) which she has been transferring to a bank account in the Ukraine.

Therefore every week that goes by without action being taken by the Home Office, she is being allowed to profit from her criminal behaviour. Even allowing for the number of cases the Home Office has to investigate, 7 months seems to me an inordinate amount of time for them to act, over what seems to me to be a straightforward case; particularly when one reads the pronouncements of Home Office officials and ministers saying they will act swiftly on cases of immigration abuse.

I don't wish to prolong this thread unduly, but for me this situation is completely unsatisfactory and I would have thought it would be for most people.

tgs · Post by **tgs** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:08 pm

Jed wrote: Within two weeks of the expiry of her fiancee visa she informed me that she had obtained a business visa for 12 months.

My understanding is in order to have a business visa you have to be associated with a company. Something like this: she works for a company in the Ukraine - they pay her expenses in the UK but her salary is not paid in £. Taxes will in paid under Ukraine law and therefor does not pay UK taxes and she has no NI number and can't claim any NHS benefits. She will not be able to register with a GP. IND will see her being in the UK on a business trip.

I wonder:
1. Is she registered with a GP (maybe on a previous VISA)? What she will do if she needs a doctor ?
2. Is she being paid in pounds or the Ukraine currency ?

Jed wrote: I was immediately suspicious and reported this to the Home Office.

Neither IND or Inland revenue will care about this, but IND will raise questions if she is in breach of the purpose of a business visa.

Jed wrote: She also obtained a business visa for a male friend in the Ukraine who joined her in the UK in the summer. She has now admitted to me that she paid a substantial sum of money for a forged visa for herself and her friend. She has also hinted that she may arrange for others to come here illegally from Ukraine. She's also working illegally and earning a very large tax free income which she is transferring to the Ukraine on a regular basis.

Forged ? Again he has a business visa but a business visa doesn't allow you be resident and work here.

Working ? You right here with a business visa she is not suppose to be working, but she is allowed to conduct business. Very thin line but not easy to proof if she is working or simply conducting business.

The money is not earned by her but by the company she is representing here in the UK. The UK client pays the Ukraine company and the Ukraine company pays here (can be in £). So she is under Ukraine tax laws.

Jed wrote: It's now been 7 months since I informed the Home Office of this, and so far no action has been taken. In the interim she has accrued substantial savings which are safely deposited in the Ukraine. I'm extremely angry she is being allowed to get away with this.

Wait untill her VISA expires and she want to stay longer, then she will have to do some explaining, especially if it looks like she has been in the UK the full 12 months. Then your letter to IND will be of significant value when they review her case.

About the tax thing: She only has to pay taxes at year end. She have to account for her earnings in the Ukriane.

Also beware she probably havn't told you everything, simply because she doesn't understand what is happening. I myself isn't an expert on Immigration law and I made assumptions around things that wasn't clear. At the end of day criminals get cought because they get caught unexpected. Sounds like she is giving herself more and more rope. If she is commiting an offence she will caught sometime, yes it takes a long time.

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