DoJ calls 4 review of EU law due to growing # of Sham M'ges

[scrudu]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 36298.html

[quote]Ahern tells EU partners residency laws must be reviewed

JAMIE SMYTH Social Affairs Correspondent

THE GOVERNMENT has told its European partners that EU residency laws need to be reviewed to combat the growing number of “sham marriagesâ€

[IrishTom]

Back to Latvia and Pakistan with the happy couples. Persist with this Dermo. We are being taken for a ride.

[jhbmike]

On this issue, I whole heartedly support the justice minister on this. Being married to a Latvian national myself, I am deplored that these sham marriages take place whilst attaching a negative stigma to legitimate marriages to citizens from baltic states.

[sovtek]

On this issue, I whole heartedly support the justice minister on this. Being married to a Latvian national myself, I am deplored that these sham marriages take place whilst attaching a negative stigma to legitimate marriages to citizens from baltic states.

Yet they provide no evidence in this article nor does the MoJ that any of the 389 marriages are a "sham"
I remember Lenihan gettin on da Q and A and giving "evidence" that there were loads of sham marriages that needed to be stopped and it justified him having the authority to certify marriages.
Bowman asked him what his evidence was...wait for it...
Lenihan: "well everyone knows that it's happening"

[Ben]

I remember Lenihan gettin on da Q and A and giving "evidence" that there were loads of sham marriages that needed to be stopped and it justified him having the authority to certify marriages.
Bowman asked him what his evidence was...wait for it...
Lenihan: "well everyone knows that it's happening"

Is that seriously what he replied?!

[MAKUSA]

Makes it difficult for legit applications.

[sovtek]

I remember Lenihan gettin on da Q and A and giving "evidence" that there were loads of sham marriages that needed to be stopped and it justified him having the authority to certify marriages.
Bowman asked him what his evidence was...wait for it...
Lenihan: "well everyone knows that it's happening"

Is that seriously what he replied?!

Yup and unsurprisingly Bowman let him away with it.

[sovtek]

Makes it difficult for legit applications.

Thats the intention. Its an excuse and not the reason they want to bring back their illegal prevention of the freedom of movement.
Anyway I'm going through defacto relationship applications and they pretty much make you consumate your relationship in front of an official and will still deny you. Make no mistake its war on immigrants for the government.

[jhbmike]

goog for him. Everybody does know what is happening, but yet nobody wants to anything about it. If you have nothing to hide then you should not have to be worried about being investigated.
Every body cries - my rights, my civil liberties. Come on give me a break, this situation has to be rectified.

[scrudu]

I don't think anyone is saying that the full 384 are sham marriages, but what are the chances of 384 Pakistani's meeting and falling in love with 384 Latvians and deciding to live in Ireland? Kinda slim methinks. Sounds more like there's some organisation behind this.

I agree with the ideas behind the Directive, but the fact that it means that simply producing a marriage certificate is enough to allow residency in any EU State is quite worrying. A lot more documentation is required under Irish National law to prove a relationship/marriage. The marriage cert in itself is not enough.

[acme4242]

quote from
http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 72358.html

The Latvian authorities are apparently amazed at Ireland's lax controls over arranged or bogus marriages.

Last month, Latvian police said that they have been informed by the garda that such "marriages" are "not a crime" in Ireland.
If it had happened in Latvian we could have put them in prison

There is not one piece of Irish Legislation written that makes it a
punishable offense

All the draconian Irish Immigration legislation of
recent years has been to remove rights and dignity of Genuine Marriage.
And match the British in their contempt for the institution and its citizens.

I can still see McDowell introducing his 'Fields of Athenry" legislation
allowing him to deport the spouse of Irish Citizens for criminal offenses.
He said it was to combat bogus marriages.

It really seems they want to maintain the allegations of sham
marriages, so they can keep introducing further draconian
Immigration legislation at will. While at no point simply making
bogus marriage an offense. And respect Marriage and the family.

Note, the 2004/38/EC directive rights do not apply to bogus marriages

Do you see what Ahern is doing here, he wants to take away EU family
rights, while still not making bogus marriage a crime.

I spoke with Dermot Ahern a few years ago, and expressed my
concern about the removal of family rights,
His reply was, "So sue me"

[archigabe]

While all of the marriages might not be sham marriages, I think it would be a good idea to request documentation for relationship history, even though it's not legally required.

[jhbmike]

Maybe a system similar to what they use in the States would be a go idea. I know its not perfect but might be a step in the right direction.

[Southern_Sky]

'Bogus' marriages investigated
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0125/immigration.html


''It's understood that the scam involves a bogus company set up here by Asian men who advertise well-paying jobs for former Eastern bloc women.

They are supplied with false documents in order to secure residency rights for their Asian "husbands", some of whom are believed to have paid up to €10,000 for the marriage certificate.

The court heard that Mr Shafi was one of more than 20 cricket players from Pakistan who arrived here on a seven-day visa for a supposed cricket match in July, 2008, but that the entire "team" disappeared after gaining entry to the State.''

http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 31389.html

[Obie]

I think it would be a good idea to request documentation for relationship history, even though it's not legally required.

Do you recon a lack of relationship history should preclude a family member of their rights under the directive.

The government is wrong in what they are doing. Their overtone is overshadowed in beloved and buried in sin.

You can't say that marriages involving two people from dissimilar culture are of convenience.

You can't say because a overstaying student gets married to an EU citizens, therefore the marriage is convenience.

By definition a marriage of convenience is a marriage contracted soley for the puropose of acquiring immigration benefits.

If the minister has evidence of this, he could revoke the residency of these people at any time. Community law does not preclude them from doing this. Far from it.

In Metock, the minister did not question the legitimacy of a single one of these marriages.

I find it tiring, seeing this accusation all the time.

I don't think anyone is forcing Ireland to stay in the EU. If they dont want to stay or obey EU laws, they are free to leave.

I am sure they will not be missed much.

Look at the millions of Euros that Ireland is receiving for integration grants for migrants, and to develop Ireland rural areas, for them to start complaining about EU legislation is disingenous.

[MAKUSA]

Ahern is an incompetent and corrupt fool just like the rest of his party, why dont the useless immigration department carry out raids at their place of abode 10-12 months after issuing residence cards. They can catch out those messing with the system. It creates jobs as well.

[scrudu]

Less of the hysteria Obie. If questioning the correctness of EU laws is now not allowed, then perhaps we ought to leave the EU. Fortunately that's not the case right now. No one wants a draconian system which each country simply implements and then ignores the effect it has on it's citizens.

No one is saying that "marriages involving two people from a dissimilar culture are of convenience", but it would be foolish and ignorant to ignore clear statistics that pose questions. Currently it's very hard to refuse an EU1 application where the couple are married, as the marriage itself seems to be enough to prove the relationship. This doesn't seem correct to me and I think both pre-grant and post-grant checks should be carried out.

[zafarzafar]

i think getting married is every body natural right but irish govt have no policy for foreign nationals to be married and reside in the state.
alot of people are trying to get married because they think its the easy way to secure their residency. if there is a pre-marriage interview system introduce by the govt and the same interview before the residency application, you will see a significant drop in the marriages. words r not enough, Govt should do some thing in practical.

[acme4242]

For what it is worth, I agree with Obie, hysteria and all.
I have no trust in Ahern, and the Irish DOJ, while they display
incompetence and ineptness, they also display a black heart and
bad faith towards genuine families.
This is shown, in the Metock case, and the recent Moylan case.

Ahern now wants to remove the rights of marriage, from EU citizens.

Remember, the EU law specifically says, the Directive does not
apply to bogus marriage. So the only rights left, that Ahern can
take away are from genuine families. Like Metock.

[sovtek]

While all of the marriages might not be sham marriages, I think it would be a good idea to request documentation for relationship history, even though it's not legally required.

Are these marriages taking place in Ireland? If so then if applying for residency based upon defacto is anything to go by they request an insurmountable amount of documentation and still deny you. It's a ruse ffs!

[sovtek]

Ahern is an incompetent and corrupt fool just like the rest of his party, why dont the useless immigration department carry out raids at their place of abode 10-12 months after issuing residence cards. They can catch out does messing with the system. It creates jobs as well.

He is indeed incompetent and a fool but also an authoritarian bastard. There is intent in this and its not just a bumbling mistake. It's quite obvious they want to get rid of "surplus people". If you aren't working then they want you out. How they do that is make sure that no one gets permanent immigration status.
It's pretty much the same with cutting the dole and trying to lower the minimum wage. They want to bring the wages down (and in turn the living standard...for workers not themselves) and make sure everyone is scared enough to do the shit jobs that are all thats left in the labour "market". Immigration is just part of this government's strategy.