Sponsor for mother's husband?

[Hampstah]

Hi,
I have been asked by my mother to sponsor her husband of 3 years, who recently had his leave to remain refused. His intention is to return to his home country of Pakistan and reapply, presumably to return under a spouse visa. It is this application l will be acting as sponsor for.

So far l have only been asked to provide a short note and 3 months bank statements OR payslips to show l am able to support him. These documents will go with him to Pakistan.

I have been unable to find any information as to what this means for me legally, what help this will provide, and even if the documents my mother has asked for will be appropriate.

Any advice would be extremely welcome.

[bash_h]

Hampstah,

Im sure other people will be around to give you advice but in the meantime you'll have to provide things like

1. Your nationality
2. Your mothers Nationality - (Her husbands is Pakistani i presume)
3. Why his LTR was refused?

and a bit more background.

[olisun]

presumably to return under a spouse visa. <== how can a child sponsor a spouse visa ?

[John]

Hampstah, you really do need to give more information, particularly about your mother's status.

Is she British? If not, her nationality? And her immigration status in the UK?

Without knowing such things it really is impossible for anyone to give you any guidance.

And when you say that her husband's application was refused, I think you also need to explain about his immigration status in the UK. Could it simply be that he has fallen foul of the "no switching" rule that was introduced on 01.04.03? If that is the case then he will indeed need to go back to his country and apply for his spouse visa there.

[Hampstah]

1&2) My mother and myself are English. (100% British)

3) He married my mother whilst he was still in the process of claiming asylum. He withdrew his application when he married my mother and reapplied as a spouse. He didn't think his case for asylum was sufficient in any case.

The case has just come up and gone through the various levels of appeal and his application has been rejected all the way, despite being married to my mother and claiming no benefits at any time. I believe the basis for the appeals was compassionate grounds, as being married does not appear to be enough? I note they have stopped asylum applicants marrying now until they are formally allowed to remain.

He now intends to return to Pakistan voluntarily before he is effectively deported, and reapply from Pakistan under a spouse visa, with me acting sponsor as my mother is not employed.

I think you can get a third party sponsor for spouse visas, which l am assuming is myself in this case. This is why l have asked, as the whole thing is very unclear!

[John]

Hampstah, back in 2003 the UK Government was getting really "cheesed off" by the number of in-UK applications to convert to a spouse visa in the UK. Accordingly they tightened up very significantly and such applications can now only be made by those in defined circumstances, such as where the person has a fiancé(e) visa issued overseas, or where a CoA (Certificate of Approval to Marry) has been obtained in the UK prior to the marriage.

So I am not surprised that her husband's application has ended up being refused. So he does indeed need to return to Pakistan and apply for a spouse visa there. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it is a shame that he didn't do that three years ago. If he had he might well be British by now.

You might have a better idea of the process if you go to this webpage and then download a form VAF2 and also the INF4 guidance. And do note that the application fee in Pakistan will be about £260 ....payable in local currency ... currently defined as Rs. 28600 as per this webpage.

[Hampstah]

Hi,
l've read the links, thanks for those. They lead me to think the following:

I can only act as a sponsor for a visit visa, which is nothing to do with a spouse visa and has a maximum period of 6 months.

By the applicant applying under a spousal visa from Pakistan, my mother is automatically the sponsor.

Is this correct? In which case there is nothing l can do.

[John]

I think that your mother is the sponsor, but you can act as an additional sponsor, as necessary, to ensure that the financial test and accommodation test are met.

[bash_h]

Bear in mind that the BHC in islamabad takes about 4 months to make a decision on a spouse visa. Therefore its in your interest to provide all the correct paperwork + evidence, because if it gets rejected (after a 4 month wait) the appeal process isnt exactly quick

[Hampstah]

Bash,
I have heard the same, so on to the final part of my plea for information..

I have been requested to provide:
3 months bank statements originals
3 months pay slips originals
Photocopy of passport showing number and photo.
A note/letter outlining who l am and making my intention to act as financial sponsor.

This makes me a little leery to be honest. Can you confirm these as necessary?

[bash_h]

How about accomodation? Where will they stay? In the letter make sure you put it ALL the information in as much detail as you can. In your bank statements are you showing a surplus every month? that is, at the end of every month is there enough money to cover their expenses as well, should they come over? What about savings?

[ilm]

Hampstah,

Your mother husband's application will have to demonstrate that a fixed set of rules are satisfied. I assume you have read the relevent details on the ukvisas website?

One of them is that he can support himself without recourse to public funds. Ultimately it is his responsibility to prove this and I guess this is where you come in. If he, and your mother, cannot prove this themselves you will have to be aware of exactly what support you are likely have to provide, will have to demonstrate this in the letter and provide documents/payslips/contract/employment history to prove you can do this.

Answering your question it may well be the documents you have been asked to provide are not really necessary, but conversly it may be that this is not enough. Always provide as much evidence as you can was the advice given to me.

I would also suggest that as this guy is your mothers husband the letter from you should also detail your relationship with this man, your opinion of his marriage with you mother, and also give details of contact you have already had with him, even provide pictures of the three of you together.

Ultimately there is not a list of what to provide for an application as the emphasis is on the applicant to prove they meet the rules. As a financial sponsor I would suggest you understand fully what is required.

[Kayalami]

Hampstah,

My 0.02p to add to all the other useful comments from the forum. The Entry Clearance Officer in Pakistan will take a view on how long your support will be provided. I believe case law has ruled against applicants who depend on third party support for the long term - IMHO such period for spousal cases is max 3 months and even that depending on your finances and/or location e.g. London is pushing it. Only children have seen case law rule for them on long term third party support. The ECO's in Pakistan are likewise some of the toughest out there so don't expect any slacking on documentation on your part. With respect to its nationals the very real issue of historic long term fraud at visa posts in Pakistan (also other sub continent posts) has lead to almost a guilty till proven innocent environment. Expect the ECO to also ask:

1. Why is your mother not in employment?

2. From 2 - she must then be on benefits?

3. What skills does the husband have?

4. Will 3 lead to a job?

5. What will be the pay for that job?

6. What is the nature of the sponsors job = full time? stable company unlikely to fold soon? If self employment expect to provide contracts, tax filing docs etc.

As a last thought - 3 months bank statements and pay slips won't wash. I would suggest no less than 12 months as a minimum. ECO wants to see pattern and ascertain how your mother has 'survived' since her marriage. Likewise don't submit photocopies..its amazing what you can do with a laser printer nowadays - send originals...for the passport send certified copies (solicitor will do this for a fee) of your and your mother's bio data pages.

good luck

[Hampstah]

Thanks all for your advice.

The info you have provided will form the basis of my actions over the next few days.

One question and l hope this doesnt offend anyone:
In providing originals and passport details am l not seriously opening myself up to identity theft?

[Kayalami]

In providing originals and passport details am l not seriously opening myself up to identity theft?

My understanding is that the documents will be in the following hands - you, the applicant and the visa officer - so where is the ID theft expected?

[Hampstah]

On paper and in a perfect world l agree. Think of online fraud...the only people that should see the cc details are you and the secure vending site, so it's amazing that anyone ever gets their cc details skimmed from online use right??

Given the info provided, originals which will sit for months on a different continent where the system is run by authorities (in the words of the applicant himself) rife with corruption, l am thinking that maybe there are some steps l should take to pre-empt any likelihood.

Anyway l'll be going to the CAB tomorrow, and see if l can get certified copies for the bank statements and payslips etc.. after all l might need them myself should l need to buy a house for example!

Many thanks to all for your contributions they have been extremely helpful.

[John]

Am I missing a point here. If it is such fraud that you are worried about, and to my recollection no one has posted about that on this Board before, don't you think that the copies would be as useful as the originals?

And why do you assume that the copies will be acceptable to the BHC?

How are you intending to send the documents? If sending such things overseas then certainly use International Signed-For service. About £3 extra, but well worth it.

[bash_h]

Certified Copies are acceptable at the BHC in Islamabad. Although if you get them certified, i have read somewhere you have to get each page in the passport certified. even the blank ones.

[sreeni]

I have never heard of any cases where the BHC it self hs commited fraud, I suppose it is theoretically possible for a BHC employee to commit fraud i would doubt they would do it and risk a decent job. I know there are some deviation from the straight line such as bribes etc to speed up the application or interview process, but I guess we just have to put our trust in God and that people are usually honest.

[Hampstah]

I can obscure details irrelevant to the application on a photocopy. I certainly don't expect they need to know my full bank account number for example.

Good lord, they need a copy of EVERY page of the passport, for what purpose?

As for the possibility of fraud: my father owns a small furnishings company and got a visit from the fraud squad after several fraudulently used credit cards had been used to make online purchases had all been used at his shop recently.

Turned out the 16 year old cleaner he had been employing had been passing details he copied down onto his mates. The real kick of this incident was that he was supposedly a close friend of my dad's daughter and my dad had only employed him to help him out.

If a western lad living in relative comfort will talk to over his best mates dad then its only fair to assume it might cross the mind of a subsistence pay cleaner in the BHC to do the same to a distant stranger on another continent, who'll probably never even find out.

[John]

Hampstah :-

for what purpose?

They don't have to tell you that! And if you don't mind me saying, you seem to be finding any reason you have to withhold documentation needed to assist the application. OK, OK, that is a bit unfair but you do appear to be approaching this matter with an air of paranoia.

Totally up to you but don't be surprised if the edited evidence you are going to provide ends up failing to assist the application.

[Hampstah]

Hmm well that would just be the HCO finding reason to be difficult then. The certification process should be sufficient, they either buy into that process or not. I'm happy to provide acres of blank passport pages, just not information that is sensitive to me and irrelevant to the application.

Note i shred all documentation before it goes in the bin, so yes l am the sort of person who would frown on sending originals half way round the world.

[John]

Totally up to you .... there are two ways that people can go into this process .... find out what is required and comply ... or question what is required and keep asking why, why, why?

Guess which set of people are likely to be more successful? No one on this Board made the rules. We are simply assisting in saying how the process works. If you don't like what you hear and choose to ignore it ... as said above ... up to you.

[bash_h]

Hampstah,
Just echoing what John says, we dont make the rules here we will just assist you on how best to complete your application.
As it has been mentioned before, if you skimp on the evidence then it will most certainly be a rejection, if it gets to appeal they could drag it as long as they want.. (And in Kalyami's words, theres a definite guilty until proven innocence factor)
All the best

[Hampstah]

Quick update, all appeals to remain were refused and my mothers husband returned to Pakistan to apply for a spousal visa from Islamabad. This got refused and now we are at a wierd stage where there is an appeal in the UK. I assume only my mother would be present for this. At no point was my suitability as a financial sponsor brought up as a problem.

In my original post l mentioned that l don't really know what being a financial sponsor means legally, allow me to expand on this: particularly l need to know if the applicants credit card debts will become my responsibility.

Due to the period of time that has passed, the applicants debit account paying the minimum on the cc's ran out some months ago. My mother has called and explained the situation to them (cc company) but stopped opening their letters/statements some months back.

I am a little angry as l envisage that these meagre sums will have swelled with penalty fee's. I am also wondering whether my mother's refusal to accept financial help from me earlier will now create massive problems for her and myself as financial sponsor.

One thing l wanted to avoid originally was becoming saddled with the debts of another due to their financial mishaps and oversight.

Should l expect to get pursued with CCJ's and bailiffs due to this?