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Hmmm! I wonder if the Home Office were aware of the "sticker" aspect when they decided that OCI constitutes a citizenship. I would have thought that one of the essential elements of a citizenship must be the availability of a travel document issued by the country whose citizenship it is.lemess wrote:....OCI exists as a sticker in a foreign passport (unlike most 'proper' dual citizenships). A BS or BPP passport with an OCI sticker would be instantly invalid and therefore unusable.
They probably decided that OCI was a 'citizenship' because the Indian authorities decided to *call* it that. However if there is no passport available in that status, and presumably no access to Indian consular protection, then one does have to question whether it is a 'citizenship' - all categories of British nationality do carry entitlement to a UK passport (even if it isn't worth much) plus consular protection.ppron747 wrote: Hmmm! I wonder if the Home Office were aware of the "sticker" aspect when they decided that OCI constitutes a citizenship. I would have thought that one of the essential elements of a citizenship must be the availability of a travel document issued by the country whose citizenship it is.
This could come up in a number of ways:It seems to me that there might be room to challenge the Home Office ruling. This wouldn't, presumably, help BSs & BPPs, if they can't get OCI anyway, but it might help the odd BOC (if there are any) who has been told (or is told in the future) that he has rendered himself ineligible for section 4B registration because he has already acquired OCI.
Amen.JAJ wrote: In the meantime, PIO seems a preferable status that avoids these complications.
Very simply NO and NO.rahul_yanina wrote:Hi guys,
I have asimple question which may be difficult to answer - if I apply and get the OIC stamp on my British passport, is there a risk of losing British citizenship? I got BC last December.
Additionally if I then go and settle in India is there a risk of losing BC?
There is also specific provision in the law for BC to be revoked if it later becomes clear that BC was obtained by fraud or by supplying false information.Lemess wrote:The only way you can lose BC is by renouncing it or in the exceptional case where the home secretary chooses to do so in the public interest which is extremely unlikely.
Needless to say, answering "yes" to that will see the application declined. And if answered "no" and that later turns out to be wrong then BC can be revoked.4.10 Have you ever been involved in financing, planning, preparation, commission or attempted commission of terrorist acts or in supporting acts of terrorism either within or outside the UK or have you been a member or supporter of an organisation which has perpetrated or supported acts of terrorism in furtherance or its aims?
Lemess, as you rightly say, that is about intention at the time of application. But in an extreme case if someone becomes naturalised, gets their British Passport soon thereafter, and then flies off to live elsewhere, that must at least place doubt on the accuracy of the answer given.3.3 If you are not married to a British citizen tell us in which country you intend to have your principal home if you are naturalised.
Well if you do that too blatantly and soon after getting naturalised then I think there is at least a theoretical danger of BC being removed. That assumes of course that you were not married to a British Citizen when you made your application.rahul_yanina wrote:Additionally if I then go and settle in India is there a risk of losing BC?
John , as you say - it may be theoretically possible but probably uneforceable and it just wouldn't make sense for anyone to pursue individual cases like this. Even if you go off and live somewhere shortly after naturalising, you may have every intention of returning to make the UK your main home - it is simply impossible to prove otherwise. I think realistically unless you have supplied blatantly false information on your naturalisation form there is very little danger of your British citzenship being stripped.John wrote:[Well if you do that too blatantly and soon after getting naturalised then I think there is at least a theoretical danger of BC being removed. That assumes of course that you were not married to a British Citizen when you made your application.
But if you have simply had a change of mind after becoming naturalised then there is no danger of you having BC withdrawn on grounds relating to your Q3.3 answer.
Well the moot question is how can one decide whether the applicant 'simply changed mide' or provided false information' unless the applicant is made to take a lie detector test etc.?John wrote:Lemess, as you rightly say, that is about intention at the time of application. But in an extreme case if someone becomes naturalised, gets their British Passport soon thereafter, and then flies off to live elsewhere, that must at least place doubt on the accuracy of the answer given.3.3 If you are not married to a British citizen tell us in which country you intend to have your principal home if you are naturalised.
Well if you do that too blatantly and soon after getting naturalised then I think there is at least a theoretical danger of BC being removed. That assumes of course that you were not married to a British Citizen when you made your application.rahul_yanina wrote:Additionally if I then go and settle in India is there a risk of losing BC?
But if you have simply had a change of mind after becoming naturalised then there is no danger of you having BC withdrawn on grounds relating to your Q3.3 answer.
That's why I think these things are unenforceable as they call for subjective judgements and it is impossible to interpret these consistently in the absence of any rules of thumb. Also, I think the key overriding feature in case of ex- Indian nationals is that even if it was obvious they had no intention of staying in the UK and it could be proven they had lied on the naturalisation application, it would not be possible to strip them of BC as doing so would leave them stateless which is not allowed under the british nationality act. This is the reason that Abu Hamza is still a British Citizen - he is no longer Egyptian and would be stateless if his BC were to be revoked ! This explains how Blunkett's attempt to withdraw it from him failed in the courts. The bottom line is that unless you hold 'proper' dual nationality with your British citizenship ( and OIC is not that) , naturalisation as a British citizen is an essentially irreversible process.basis wrote:Well the moot question is how can one decide whether the applicant 'simply changed mide' or provided false information' unless the applicant is made to take a lie detector test etc.?
And how can one define 'too blatantly' OR 'soon after' ?
It's odd that a future intentions requirement doesn't apply to naturalisation applicants who are spouses of British citizens. Not does it apply to "section 4" registration applicants.lemess wrote: John , as you say - it may be theoretically possible but probably uneforceable and it just wouldn't make sense for anyone to pursue individual cases like this. Even if you go off and live somewhere shortly after naturalising, you may have every intention of returning to make the UK your main home - it is simply impossible to prove otherwise. I think realistically unless you have supplied blatantly false information on your naturalisation form there is very little danger of your British citzenship being stripped.
At least under current policy, the Home Office do view OIC as a 'nationality' but a conclusive view could only be given by the courts.lemess wrote: The bottom line is that unless you hold 'proper' dual nationality with your British citizenship ( and OIC is not that) , naturalisation as a British citizen is an essentially irreversible process.
The key test of whether OIC is a nationality is whether stripping someone who has it of their british citizenship would render them stateless. As the OIC is a visa sticker in the British passport, no BC = no british passport = no OIC.JAJ wrote:At least under current policy, the Home Office do view OIC as a 'nationality' but a conclusive view could only be given by the courts.lemess wrote: The bottom line is that unless you hold 'proper' dual nationality with your British citizenship ( and OIC is not that) , naturalisation as a British citizen is an essentially irreversible process.
As I say the *existing* view of the Home Office is that OIC is a second-tier category of Indian nationality, in the same sense as British subject status or US nationality without citizenship (people from American Samoa have this).lemess wrote: The key test of whether OIC is a nationality is whether stripping someone who has it of their british citizenship would render them stateless. As the OIC is a visa sticker in the British passport, no BC = no british passport = no OIC.
Statelessness is not a permissible after effect of revocation of british citizenship and OICs are not Indian citizens or entitled to an Indian passport. Therefore it is fairly certain that an OIC's BC is safe.
Not really - I think the point is that married couples' intentions as regards where they're going to live should be joint intentions. To require the spouse of a British citizen to intend to continue to live in UK could conflict with the intentions of the BC spouse. IMO, the only way you could introduce a "future intentions" requirement for 6(2) applicants would be to have the BC spouse co-sign the application, which (in cases where the applicant is the wife) would be harking back to the bad old days of "wifely duties". IMO anyway, as I saidJAJ wrote:It's odd that a future intentions requirement doesn't apply to naturalisation applicants who are spouses of British citizens.....
But - as I said when you last said that - only when it was "not conducive to the public good" for that individual to continue to be a CUKCJAJ wrote: In the British Nationality Act 1948 there was a clause which allowed naturalised UK citizens to be stripped of citizenship if they lived overseas for 7 years and didn't register an intention to retain UK citizenship....
