Query on Right of Abode

[raikal]

After naturalization, can I go for Right of Abode and get the sticker on Indian passport ?
Is that allowed according Indian Nationality act. What confuses me is to Right of Abode we first need to be naturalized thus by losing Indian nationality.

I have seen few people doing this but do not know if that is legal !

Thanks

[JAJ]

After naturalization, can I go for Right of Abode and get the sticker on Indian passport ?
Is that allowed according Indian Nationality act. What confuses me is to Right of Abode we first need to be naturalized thus by losing Indian nationality.

I have seen few people doing this but do not know if that is legal !

Thanks

Once you become a British citizen your Indian passport is invalid as you would no longer be an Indian citizen.

It's really a simple choice:

- you can be a British citizen plus have PIO or OIC status with India, or
- you can stay an Indian citizen and not be a British citizen

[ppron747]

It is my understanding that you automatically lose Indian citizenship upon acquisition of the citizenship of another country.

Because it is automatic, it means that, even if the Indian government don't know you have acquired another citizenship, you're not an Indian citizen any more, and you are almost certainly breaking Indian law by continuing to hold an Indian passport. The same applies with Kenya, I believe.

Certificates of Entitlement to the Right of Abode are endorsed with the section of the UK Immigration Act 1971 under which the holder has the right of abode. In this case, it would be section 2(1)(a) of the Act, and anyone wishing to check would quickly see that section 2(1)(a) says that the individual is a British citizen.

So, except in a few cases which wouldn't apply here, people who get certificates of entitlement put into their Indian passport are actually carrying proof that they're not Indian... I don't know how many people do it, but if they do so, they are relying on the Indian immigration authorities' ignorance of British nationality and immigration law. Is it safe to do this? I don't know - I would be uncomfortable with it, myself. If someone were looking for an opportunity to cause trouble, examining a certificate of entitlement would be the ideal opportunity...

[lemess]

I suspect that any request to put a right of abode endorsement that derives from british nationality on an indian passport will be rejected by the home office as I am pretty sure they are aware that India does not allow dual nationality which means that a british citizen cannot possess a valid Indian passport.

[JAJ]

I suspect that any request to put a right of abode endorsement that derives from british nationality on an indian passport will be rejected by the home office as I am pretty sure they are aware that India does not allow dual nationality which means that a british citizen cannot possess a valid Indian passport.

I'm not so sure. Clearly Indian citizenship is lost when an Indian citizen becomes naturalised or registered as British, or obtains a British passport.

However it is possible for an Indian citizen to have acquired British citizenship at birth and in that circumstance a Right of Abode stamp could be placed on an Indian passport.

It is also possible for an Indian citizen to hold Right of Abode without holding British citizenship - for example, a person born in India between 1950 and 1982 with a UK born mother would typically have Indian citizenship plus Right of Abode.

But going back to the original question it's really a simple choice - if you want to be a full Indian citizen, then don't become a British citizen.

[lemess]

However it is possible for an Indian citizen to have acquired British citizenship at birth and in that circumstance a Right of Abode stamp could be placed on an Indian passport.

The Indian constitution expressly rules out citizenship of any other nation for Indian nationals. A right of abode sticker that derives from british citizenship on an Indian passport indicates the simultaneous holding of another citizenship in addition to the Indian one - which is impossible. Either the sticker or the passport would have to be invalid by definition.

An Indian citizen cannot acquire british citizenship at birth and remain an Indian citizen. He may have an entitlement to british citizenship but as soon as he chooses to exercise it by registration, he would cease to be an Indian citizen and his Indian passport would be invalid.

[JAJ]

An Indian citizen cannot acquire british citizenship at birth and remain an Indian citizen. He may have an entitlement to british citizenship but as soon as he chooses to exercise it by registration, he would cease to be an Indian citizen and his Indian passport would be invalid.

If someone is born in India to a UK born or naturalised British parent, then they are a British citizen by descent *automatically* and no application for citizenship by registration is normally required.

Although you are correct now regarding children born in the UK to Indian parents - they need to be registered as Indian citizens and they won't be eligible for that if they have British citizenship. However some UK born children who were born before the Indian law change in 2004 may have acquired both citizenships at birth simultaneously at birth. As long as such children are not issued with British passports, how can they lose their Indian citizenship?

[lemess]

Interesting. The application form for a new indian passport says :

I hereby declare that ________________________________ born in UK has not applied for or acquired U.K. citizenship / travel document.
Should I approach the British authorities for such a travel document, I undertake to inform the High Commission of India, London
immediately so that Indian travel document may be withdrawn.

Implying that one could simultaneously have British and Indian citizenship as long as one does not apply for a british travel document. The issue is whether the right of abode sticker counts as a travel document. If not it seems that one can effectively be a dual citizen of the UK and India in this situation - as long as one does not apply for a UK passport.

I was not aware of that !

[JAJ]

Interesting. The application form for a new indian passport says :

I hereby declare that ________________________________ born in UK has not applied for or acquired U.K. citizenship / travel document.
Should I approach the British authorities for such a travel document, I undertake to inform the High Commission of India, London
immediately so that Indian travel document may be withdrawn.

Implying that one could simultaneously have British and Indian citizenship as long as one does not apply for a british travel document. The issue is whether the right of abode sticker counts as a travel document. If not it seems that one can effectively be a dual citizen of the UK and India in this situation - as long as one does not apply for a UK passport.

I was not aware of that !

Clearly a child born in the UK to a parent with British citizenship or ILR *does* acquire British citizenship at birth, even if a British passport is not obtained.

Since 2004, a UK-born child has to be granted Indian citizenship and the Indians will not do this if the child is also British.

More interestingly is the situation of a UK born child pre-2004 (or a child born in India to a British parent). It seems that it would not necessarily be lawful to cancel the Indian citizenship of such a child on the grounds of also holding British citizenship (if no UK passport was held), however questions of Indian citizenship law can only be conclusively determined by the courts of India.

In practical terms, a child growing up in the UK will almost certainly want a British passport anyway. Having an Indian passport - even with a UK Right of Abode stamp - is going to cause real hassles for travelling outside the UK (eg school trips) as visas will be needed for almost anywhere.

[ppron747]

It's a while since I looked at the Indian legislation, but IIRC the way it works is that, while the main Act forbids the acquisition of another citizenship, there are also Regulations in secondary legislation which provide that people with an automatic claim to another citizenship are not deemed to have acquired another citizenship unless/until they acquire a passport issued by the other country.

[Dawie]

Don't you think you're giving the Indian government too much credit by thinking they will actually even find out about your British citizenship? My country, South Africa, while not outrightly forbidding dual citizenship, requires you to apply for a letter of permission to aquire the citizenship of another country (this is just a formality however, they never refuse to issue one).

However, most South Africans living in London don't bother because we have full faith in the incompetence of our government. Do you honestly think they have the time and the resources to find out that you've aquired the citizenship of another country? I don't think so.

[Smit]

Dawie,

Your point noted but it is one thing for the Govt catching up with you and another for you to comply with the law.

If SA law prohibits dual citizenship, then personally, I would not risk breaking the law by holding both SA and another citizenship, even if the SA Govt would never find out about my other citizenship.

Smit

[Dawie]

Yes I agree with you, it's preferable not to break the law. However I'm a big believer in privacy and non-interference by the state (any state) and personally I don't think my aquisition of another country's citizenship is any concern or business of the South African government regardless of what the law says.

I'm a proud South African, born and bred, but I have to be honest and say that if I had British citizenship and someone put a gun to my head and said choose between your South African and British passport, I'd have to choose the British passport. Sad but true.

[ppron747]

Don't you think you're giving the Indian government too much credit by thinking they will actually even find out about your British citizenship? .....
----Do you honestly think they have the time and the resources to find out that you've aquired the citizenship of another country? I don't think so.

A government having objections to dual nationality doesn't have to expend time and resources to find out whether an individual has acquired another citizenship.

If it is a serious objection they can, as a condition of renewing a passport, require the individual to produce a letter from (eg) the UK consulate confirming that the individual doesn't hold a UK passport, if they have any reason to suppose that the person might have British nationality. The Canadian government (which no longer has a problem with dual nationality) used to, as a matter of routine, require passport applicants to produce such letters if they had spent any time living in another country or if they were married to a citizen of another country.

The applicants make all the running, and the requirement thus has few resource implications for the government concerned.

[Dawie]

Yes, South Africa has this requirement too. However they only require a letter from the Home Office stating that you have not taken up British Citizenship IF you have been in the UK for more than 5 years (or 3 years if you are married to a British citizen). However, if you *lose* your passport, they will have no way of knowing how long you have been in the UK anyway, so it's kind of a stupid requirement. You could just simply lie and say that you were on holiday when you lost your passport and that would be that.

[JAJ]

Yes, South Africa has this requirement too. However they only require a letter from the Home Office stating that you have not taken up British Citizenship IF you have been in the UK for more than 5 years (or 3 years if you are married to a British citizen). However, if you *lose* your passport, they will have no way of knowing how long you have been in the UK anyway, so it's kind of a stupid requirement. You could just simply lie and say that you were on holiday when you lost your passport and that would be that.

But if you're South African and *really* want to keep your citizenship - wouldn't it be simpler just to pay the fee and get the necessary permission to take British citizenship.

As for other countries - some people do what you suggest, however I don't think it's much fun holding onto a passport from a country when you know you are no longer legally a citizen.

[Sunnyboy]

Hi
Just to mention that concept of Indian Passport or any other country passport is exclusive property of the issuer country and being a citizen of India one has a right to hold that as per his constitutional rights. And just to remove confusion whether that document can be held or used as per the convenience of the person certainly not. Your rights and duties are involved with that. And Non disclosure intentionally about the other country natuaalzation or acquisition of citizenship will be breach of indian law and may amount an offence . Now perhaps Indian mission do make it clear by an endorsement while issuing it , that holder will let the Indian concerned authority know about his other change of status.

Sometimes lack of understanding amongst the citizen of a country do create a confusion about Passport.

Seconly if it amounts an offence and would not be a good while applying for any other country passport as you need a disclosure for your criminal records

Thirdly if you have given any dexlaration on oath about relinquishing your earlier nationality then you are supposed to be keepimg your record clesr and not trying to brech laws of any country.

[Dawie]

Well, the penalty for becoming a citizen of another country without first applying for permission from the South African embassy in London is that you automatically lose your South African citizenship HOWEVER you do not lose your right to live and work in South Africa as anyone who was or is South African by birth or descent has got the right to permanent residency even if they renounce their South African citizenship or it is taken away from them. So in other words you will go from being a South African citizen with UK permanent residency to being a UK citizen with South African permanent residency. Crazy, isn't it?