EEA1 refusal for Indian husband, slovakian wife..please help

[katka1311]

Hi all...thank you for all of your advices, I really need them..here is the letter to the ECM and I would like you to read it, give any comments, suggestions what do I miss or should include in it...please read..

To the attention of the Entry Clearance Manager,
Dear sir.

I just received a refusal of my EEA family permit application reference number: MSAC/130110/000031/1 which I applied for under EEA Regulations.

The ECO’s reasons and supporting evidence is the following:

“You, and your Slovakian wife and your daughter propose to settle in the UK permanently. Although you have funds in India, you must show that your EEA national is economically active in the UK. You have not evidenced this and therefore I must refuse your applicationâ€

[86ti]

Looks ok though you may want to make clear that when you refer to 'regulations' you mean the EEA Regulations 2006.

[katka1311]

Hi 86ti...
thanks for helping me with this..I really appreciate it very very mych...
well....I've just sent the e-mail this morning...let's see what happens....you are right, I should have mentioned which regulations I'm reffering to, but again, at the beginning I made it clear that I applied under the EEA Regulations....well, hopefully the ECM will get my point...
one more thing...do you think they kept our application form, or entered in the comp and how about the supporting doc? do they usually make copy of them? because they've returned them to us, except the application..I am just wondering in case they ask us to fax a copy of the application we do not have nothing in our hands..

[86ti]

They certainly keep everything on file. The most important point now is to make yourself understood to the ECM. Just wait for their answer.

[katka1311]

all right...lets wait..and see..one more question/ sorry my mind is going crazy now, just cannot cool down/ do you think I should fax the letter aslo, or the e mail should be enough?

[86ti]

It's probably not a bad idea to fax it too.

[katka1311]

Hi 86ti..
see what I've found on the Chapter 3 http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary of the HO's webs:
1.3 Relevant rights given by Directive 2004/38/EC
Initial period of residence
EEA nationals and their family members are entitled to come to the UK for an initial period of 3 months without the requirement to exercise a Treaty right. Should the EEA national wish to live in the UK on a longer-term basis s/he must be a qualified person. Please see Chapter 1 for more information on “qualified personsâ€

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

is the problem that we both do not work at the moment here in India/ we came here from US to apply, so my husband left his job, and I was home with our baby/, but now that she is passed 2yrs I can work, and this is what I WANT to do in England...so does my husband...just do not know how to put all this in the VAf5 app form..

Why did you decide to go to India to apply rather than doing it in the US?

As I understand what you have said, what you are doing is planning to go to the UK to explore and to find work. I assume that if it works out well, and you find work, then you may decide to stay. And if you do not find work, then you may not stay. Is this right?

[katka1311]

Hi, my husband and I did not have legal papers in US /however our case was still in progress with the lawyer/, that is why we decided to come to India, as far as I understood you have to apply in a country where you are legally resident..about UK...we do want to work there, and I am sure if there is a will there is a way also....if not right away both of us, but maybe in couple months.....

[86ti]

Hi, my husband and I did not have legal papers in US /however our case was still in progress with the lawyer/, that is why we decided to come to India, as far as I understood you have to apply in a country where you are legally resident

You do not have to be legally resident, see http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/eunati ... t#13627112 .

[katka1311]

maybe, I misunderstood....I also went in NY back then to the British HC and they were asking for permits to stay in NY, but we did not have any,only our B2 visas...does not matter anymore, we are here in India..we have to figure out our way from here....besides that I am still hoping for the answer from the HC, lets see if they write back...towards the end of the month if nothing happens I will try to reapply again, but I doubt that they will believe me, that this time we want to go for a "visit' only....

[86ti]

II will try to reapply again, but I doubt that they will believe me, that this time we want to go for a "visit' only....

You do not have to declare at all why you want to got to the UK, neither do you have to tell them how long you are going to stay.

[katka1311]

so the answer is to the questions on the very first page: purpose of your visit, how long you intend to stay and date you want to go...just leave blank, as you have suggested before?

[katka1311]

and page 4, q:6.3 have you ever been refused to a visa for any country inc the UK in the past 10 yrs..do we have to mention our refusal of EEA ?

[86ti]

Yes, I think you can leave many parts of the VAF5 form simply blank. You may also want to mention the refusal (they obviously know about that anyway). But in any case write a cover letter explaining why you did it and also why you think you can do it that way. Refer again to the previously mentioned law.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You should definitely mention the visa refusal. But it should not be a big deal.

I have a couple of questions:
(1) Are you filling out paper application forms, or are you doing them online?
(2) When do you want to go to the UK?

[katka1311]

[quote But in any case write a cover letter explaining why you did it and also why you think you can do it that way. Refer again to the previously mentioned law.[/quote] what do you exactly mean, 86ti? why did I apply again? that is what you mean..sorry, sometimes I am a bit slow...

[katka1311]

Answers to your questions:
1. we filled the appl on paper. is it better online? what aare the benefits if we fill them out online?do they still have to be printed out on paper?
2. we were planning to go first or second week of March.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Paper is fine. Actually it is better since you can put the answers you want rather than answering what they insist you must answer.

Why wait until March? Why not submit a new application tomorrow?

[katka1311]

Well, I am hoping that the ECM will read my letter, and somehow change his decision..they said, they will answer in 20 days to my mail, but it was just an automati response. so maybe I am waiting unneceserly, maybe I should apply right now....but than again, they say that if our circumstances did not change there is a big chance of a refusal again...
and honestly, nothing has changed in our circumstances, we are just two people /and our daughter/ who want live and work in a country where we have every right to do so. so i am very afraid, and confused as you could see my previous post how , and what to submit in our new application..how to change our circumstances...would YOU suggest to pretend that we are just visiting? e.g. for 3 months...
I am so sorry everyone who has been reading this thread, I know I keep asking the same questions, but the reason is that this is a big headache for me, and I just want to do the things the right way. With my first application I was very honest and straightforward, did not hide anything, but now, I have to make up stories, in order to get this permit..deep inside I am very disappointed.
Besides all, do you think the ECM actully WILL read my mail/fax/ or the mail did not even get to him..how can I check this?

[86ti]

You don't have to make up anything. The crucial point now is that the ECM sees that a mistake was made.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

would YOU suggest to pretend that we are just visiting? e.g. for 3 months...
I am so sorry everyone who has been reading this thread, I know I keep asking the same questions, but the reason is that this is a big headache for me, and I just want to do the things the right way. With my first application I was very honest and straightforward, did not hide anything, but now, I have to make up stories, in order to get this permit..deep inside I am very disappointed.
Besides all, do you think the ECM actully WILL read my mail/fax/ or the mail did not even get to him..how can I check this?

I would STRONGLY suggest you do not "make up stories" or "pretend" anything. They can and should reject your visa application if you do this.

But what exactly did you put down on the original application? That you were going to go to the UK and live there the rest of your lives and be buried there? If so, you have your life planned out a lot further than I do.

I suspect, and please correct me if I am wrong, that you are planning to go to the UK to find a place to live and to find a job.

I would guess that if you do not find a job after seriously looking, you will decide to leave the UK. At least that is what I would do if I were in your situation. (Being jobless in the UK is not very pleasant!) But who knows what the future brings.

Focus on the first three months after your arrival in the UK. What are you going to do in that time?

It is unclear from your postings if you would like to go to the UK as soon as possible, or are happy for it to happen sometime later this year.

You need to calm down and breath and relax. You and your family have a right to go to the UK. This is just a stupid and needless delay. But it is only a delay.

[katka1311]

Well...
regarding to your question when we are planning to go, my answer is...we came to India, and planned to do this whole visa thing in 4 months the most....we came here in November, so our time to go was by the end of February...in January we applied, giving it about a month to get the paperwork done, so we are ready to go end of Feb or beggining of March..now what happend just about a week after our refusal my 2 yr old daughter get sick, and get admitted to a hospital. with a very bad pneummonia. Since then our life is more complicated than ever. All of us "moved" to the hospital for an uncertain amount of time, we worry about our daughter's health, but also worry about the application..somehow we hope that by the time the BHC should answer our letter/20 days/ our daughter should be fine, and we would be all happy and ready to leave by the beggining of March. This is the best outcome we hope for.
About the UK, our plan is the following. Go there, and as soon as we arrive we want to search for jobs, I know it is hard, but both of us understand that we both have to work, in order to be able to take care of our daughter..so in the first three months, I want to find an accomodation and jobs for both of us..and possibly send our daughter to nursery/ if this is how they call it in UK/,so yeah, this is how we put it down on the application. Live and work. we also todl them that as soon as we reach we will try to find a job, and again I know it is not that easy, but my husband is a chef, so I hope at least he woudl find a job easier/right away/. and what would happen if nothing comes out..we simply did not count on that. Maybe we are naive, but again, i believe that somewhere even if not a perfect job, but we could get emplpyed.
about lying...I do not want to , I am not even good at it, but some people were suggesting to form our applic the way we woudl just "visit". But after having all our paper on file, I guess we really just should submit the same applic. with a cover letter pointing out our reason of reapplying, and maybe our rights. Am I correct?
thank you for both of you giving me some hope, probably I am just too stressed out, by being suprised about the refusal, and the sickness of our daughter.

[katka1311]

But what exactly did you put down on the original application? That you were going to go to the UK and live there the rest of your lives and be buried there? If so, you have your life planned out a lot further than I do.
well...this is exactly how we put it, except saying that we planning to dye there.... any suggestion what would be the right way of putting it?

[86ti]

Look, we are really spinning in circles here. You already have been adviced of your rights and have been given tips what to do. Now it is time for you to fully comprehend your situation and fight for your right. The BHC knows about your intentions and in any future application, wherever you make it, you will have to declare the refusal. You will now have to make yourself heard to the BHC (just reapply!) and if they won't listen you will have to appeal (you can also try to contact SOLVIT but don't expect too much from them) on the same grounds.