Deaf/dumb Brother-in-Law visit visa rejected

[moonlight123]

My uncle originally sponsored my brother-in-law a visit visa alongside his family (mum/dad & sister)

They got a 2 yr visit visa. They came here once - stayed for 2 months - and went back.

Next year they came again and went after 2 months however my bro-in-law stayed on.

My bro-in-law is 22 and is deaf & dumb (no chance he can work!) and prefers it here as opposed to pakistan so he stayed on for a total of 5 and half months before going back.

Now he has applied for a visit visa without any sponsorship alongside his family.
His mum, dad & sister got their visa renewed but his was rejected due to him overstaying his visa (2 months + 5 and a half). He could apparently only stay 6 months in 2 yrs - he didnt know that.

Now he likes visiting the UK as everyone treats hims as an equal but since his visit visa is rejected we are not sure what the best route is to get one?

How do we counter immigration saying he has overstayed? I know they must be thinking he was working but this lad is deaf and dumb - he cant work.

He is now very upset and I am very confused on what direction we need to take. I would like to appeal but what do we say????

I would be very grateful if you guys/gals could advise

Thanks

moonlight123

[Ben]

pakland

Sorry, where?

[Wanderer]

pakland

Sorry, where?

Parkland?

[moonlight123]

pakland

Sorry, where?

Parkland?

whoops

meant Pakistan

[Wanderer]

On what criteria did he apply for work visa? Tier 1 or Tier 2?

This will all sound a bit dubious to the ECO, overstaying and reapplying...

[moonlight123]

On what criteria did he apply for work visa? Tier 1 or Tier 2?

This will all sound a bit dubious to the ECO, overstaying and reapplying...

He didnt apply for a work visa. Straight visit visa. He cant work anyway as his disability prevents him.

Overstaying was purely him jus enjoying it here - back in Pakistan a disability is a bad thing yet here he felt comfortble and experienced more of a normal life. He was under the impression cant stay for more than 6 months at a time.

[Kitty]

Did they actually say "we are refusing you because you have overstayed", or did they say that because of the duration or frequency of his previous visits they doubted whether he was a genuine visitor?

My understanding of the long-term visit visa is that the same rules apply as with an ordinary one: each trip may be no more than 6 months long, and visiting for more than 6 months in any 12 might cause the ECO to be suspicious of the true reason for travelling to the UK. But that's not the same as "overstaying".

[moonlight123]

Did they actually say "we are refusing you because you have overstayed", or did they say that because of the duration or frequency of his previous visits they doubted whether he was a genuine visitor?

My understanding of the long-term visit visa is that the same rules apply as with an ordinary one: each trip may be no more than 6 months long, and visiting for more than 6 months in any 12 might cause the ECO to be suspicious of the true reason for travelling to the UK. But that's not the same as "overstaying".

I will verify exact wording but I think the issue is they doubt he is a genuine visitor but what I find confusing is why they would doubt a deaf & dumb person? He isnt capable of working - he doesnt even wear a hearing aid.

[Wanderer]

On what criteria did he apply for work visa? Tier 1 or Tier 2?

This will all sound a bit dubious to the ECO, overstaying and reapplying...

He didnt apply for a work visa. Straight visit visa. He cant work anyway as his disability prevents him.

Overstaying was purely him jus enjoying it here - back in Pakistan a disability is a bad thing yet here he felt comfortble and experienced more of a normal life. He was under the impression cant stay for more than 6 months at a time.

U did say work visa didnt u - I noticed u edited...

[geriatrix]

1. The concern could be that he might stay back in UK for reasons other than work (e.g. - better quality of life for challenged individuals, lack of evidence of ties with home country etc.).

2. Did the 2nd (five and half months) trip end within 12 months of the date of entry on the 1st visit? If yes, he stayed seven and half months in given 12 calendar months. Therefore, rightly denied as having overstayed before.

regards

[Rozen]

why they would doubt a deaf & dumb person? He isnt capable of working - he doesnt even wear a hearing aid.

Just because he has a disability does not accord him preference over the laid down rules. It's not about his disability! It's about him staying for more than the allowed six months within the twelve month period. He broke the rules, whether knowingly or not! It's as simple as that! Sorry.

[Pakhtoon]

Writing Pakland instead of Pakistan ??? WTF ???

[moonlight123]

On what criteria did he apply for work visa? Tier 1 or Tier 2?

This will all sound a bit dubious to the ECO, overstaying and reapplying...

He didnt apply for a work visa. Straight visit visa. He cant work anyway as his disability prevents him.

Overstaying was purely him jus enjoying it here - back in Pakistan a disability is a bad thing yet here he felt comfortble and experienced more of a normal life. He was under the impression cant stay for more than 6 months at a time.

U did say work visa didnt u - I noticed u edited...

I edited pakland to pakistan - too busy writing email i didnt realise I wrote pakland! I never edited any further.

[moonlight123]

Writing Pakland instead of Pakistan ??? WTF ???

dont worry...its not end othe world.

and pakistanis in the Uk do refer to pakistan as pakland now & again.
It was a mistake as mentioned above - too busy in the flow of the message that I forgot I wrote that!

[moonlight123]

why they would doubt a deaf & dumb person? He isnt capable of working - he doesnt even wear a hearing aid.

Just because he has a disability does not accord him preference over the laid down rules. It's not about his disability! It's about him staying for more than the allowed six months within the twelve month period. He broke the rules, whether knowingly or not! It's as simple as that! Sorry.

true say.

so even though he had a 2yr visa he cant stay more than 6 months within a 12 month period?

[Wanderer]

why they would doubt a deaf & dumb person? He isnt capable of working - he doesnt even wear a hearing aid.

Just because he has a disability does not accord him preference over the laid down rules. It's not about his disability! It's about him staying for more than the allowed six months within the twelve month period. He broke the rules, whether knowingly or not! It's as simple as that! Sorry. :(

true say.

so even though he had a 2yr visa he cant stay more than 6 months within a 12 month period?

True.

[moonlight123]

why they would doubt a deaf & dumb person? He isnt capable of working - he doesnt even wear a hearing aid.

Just because he has a disability does not accord him preference over the laid down rules. It's not about his disability! It's about him staying for more than the allowed six months within the twelve month period. He broke the rules, whether knowingly or not! It's as simple as that! Sorry.

true say.

so even though he had a 2yr visa he cant stay more than 6 months within a 12 month period?

True.

what are our options to get his visa accepted again?
what do we do?

[Pakhtoon]

This is the first time I am hearing that Pakistan is sometimes called Pakland.

Some countries do have different names in different languages for example England in Urdu is Englastan and in Polish is Anglee but referring to Pakistan as Pakland is rather idiotic.

[moonlight123]

This is the first time I am hearing that Pakistan is sometimes called Pakland.

Some countries do have different names in different languages for example England in Urdu is Englastan and in Polish is Anglee but referring to Pakistan as Pakland is rather idiotic.

mate...this is irrelevant. Its slang and to be honest having lived in UK all my life I have never heard Englastan

Lets move on. Nothing to get upset about.

If you are offened for reasons unknown to me then I am sorry but lets grow up and stick to the main topic of this thread.

[Pakhtoon]

mate...this is irrelevant. Its slang and to be honest having lived in UK all my life I have never heard Englastan

You don't know Urdu then, thats a shame !

[moonlight123]

mate...this is irrelevant. Its slang and to be honest having lived in UK all my life I have never heard Englastan

You don't know Urdu then, thats a shame !

Bro give it a rest. I know urdu & punjabi very well - visit pakistan every year. Married there too! I know my roots very well & dont need to be told otherwise.

You live in Poland so I dont see how you can dictate to me what people in UK refer to Pakistan as.

Anyway why are you finding this so difficult to come to terms with?
I said I am sorry if I offended you - lets move on.

No big deal.

[Kitty]

2. Did the 2nd (five and half months) trip end within 12 months of the date of entry on the 1st visit? If yes, he stayed seven and half months in given 12 calendar months. Therefore, rightly denied as having overstayed before.

I don't think it's accurate to describe this as "overstaying". If you overstay, you have stayed in the UK for longer than your entry clearance or other leave permits.

If you enter as a visitor, you must leave either by the end date of your visa (if you have a bog standard 6 months sticker), or within 6 months of your entry date.

The 6/12 "rule" is a guideline (albeit one that is used fairly readily, so I suppose you might describe it as a "rule" in that sense) for ECOs etc. when they are deciding whether someone is a visitor or not (as you say, they could be coming here to work, or for medical treatment, or to get married or something). People who visit the UK for more than half a given year may well not genuinely be a visitor.

So it's not a case of saying "you broke the rules, tough." More like, "your pattern of visits makes it look like you are not doing what you say you're doing. Either get evidence that supports your story, or accept that the IO doesn't believe you".

[Rozen]

I don't think it's accurate to describe this as "overstaying". If you overstay, you have stayed in the UK for longer than your entry clearance or other leave permits.

If you enter as a visitor, you must leave either by the end date of your visa (if you have a bog standard 6 months sticker), or within 6 months of your entry date.

The 6/12 "rule" is a guideline (albeit one that is used fairly readily, so I suppose you might describe it as a "rule" in that sense) for ECOs etc. when they are deciding whether someone is a visitor or not (as you say, they could be coming here to work, or for medical treatment, or to get married or something). People who visit the UK for more than half a given year may well not genuinely be a visitor.

So it's not a case of saying "you broke the rules, tough." More like, "your pattern of visits makes it look like you are not doing what you say you're doing. Either get evidence that supports your story, or accept that the IO doesn't believe you".

No matter the length of the visitor visa...6 months, 1/2/5/10 years, the fact remains that you MUST NOT stay longer than a TOTAL of six months in any twelve (unless you get special permission to do so by UKBA).
I have a long term multiple family visitor to the UK, and was advised by the ECO that it is important that I do not spend more than a TOTAL of six months in any twelve in the UK for the duration of my visa. (Not that I ever intend to anyway).
Frequency of travelling in and out should not be an issue, but the TOTAL length of stay in a twelve month period.

[Kitty]

Practically speaking I agree with what you are saying, but a person with a long term visit visa who visits the UK in the way described by the OP (2 months, then 5 months within a 12-month period) is not "overstaying". They have not breached the terms of their visa. [Edited to add that I suppose you could argue that without further evidence they have breached the rules by "not being a genuine visitor" any more...]

The problem the OP is having is that the ECO now says "look at your history of coming to the UK. The amount of time you have spent here in total says to me that you are not a genuine visitor." The ECO is allowed to make that judgment, using the guidance.

It's not that you must never visit for more than 6/12 months. It's just that if you do, you must be prepared to explain yourself in future, and why you're a special case.

The practical difference it makes is that, if you overstay, whack, you could easily get a ban. Not satisfying the ECO that you're a genuine visitor? Just a refusal.

When you say "special permission" from the UK Border Agency, when and where would you get this?

[Rozen]

When you say "special permission" from the UK Border Agency, when and where would you get this?

By 'special', I meant that you must have a really good reason for asking to remain beyond the six month period!
Refer 2.1.7
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary