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Precisely.lifeart wrote:Exercisong treaty rights as an EU national means: working, looking for work, studying, being self-sufficient, but for the first three months also being physically present in the territory of a member state, WITHOUT any conditions attached to that stay for the first three months, is exercising treaty rights. In other words: you guys can travel, say to Italy, tomorrow and because you and your wife are physically present in the territory of another member state, you could take up work for, say, one day. The only thing that is required are both of your passports and proof of your marriage.
If the eu national is working so can his non eu spouse but the non eu spouse can not work if he eu spouse is visiting because he is not exercising treaty rights. If the eu spouse is looking for work, then he has moved to the that country and has taken up residence which is why I said it is not simply presence.benifa wrote:Precisely.lifeart wrote:Exercisong treaty rights as an EU national means: working, looking for work, studying, being self-sufficient, but for the first three months also being physically present in the territory of a member state, WITHOUT any conditions attached to that stay for the first three months, is exercising treaty rights. In other words: you guys can travel, say to Italy, tomorrow and because you and your wife are physically present in the territory of another member state, you could take up work for, say, one day. The only thing that is required are both of your passports and proof of your marriage.
It is plain and clear in the Directive, I don't know why some people on this thread seem to think otherwise, to be honest. It's quite bewildering.
He has the right of residence, stopping by for one day does not confer any rights to his non eu spouse. What is so difficult to understand?Ben wrote:For goodness sake.
1. An EEA national has the right of residence for up to three months without any conditions or formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid passport or National ID card.
2. The family member of the EEA national has the right to accompany the EEA national, during his period of residence in the other Member State.
3. During their period of residence, the EEA national and his family member have the right to equal treatment with nationals of the host Member State.
What is unclear?
republique wrote:He has the right of residence, stopping by for one day does not confer any rights to his non eu spouse.
[url=http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:EN:PDF]Directive 2004/38/EC[/url], Article 6 - Right of residence for up to three months wrote:1. Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a
period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to
hold a valid identity card or passport.
2. The provisions of paragraph 1 shall also apply to family members in possession of a valid
passport who are not nationals of a Member State, accompanying or joining the Union citizen.
So?Ben wrote:republique wrote:He has the right of residence, stopping by for one day does not confer any rights to his non eu spouse.[url=http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:EN:PDF]Directive 2004/38/EC[/url], Article 6 - Right of residence for up to three months wrote:1. Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a
period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to
hold a valid identity card or passport.
2. The provisions of paragraph 1 shall also apply to family members in possession of a valid
passport who are not nationals of a Member State, accompanying or joining the Union citizen.
republique, seriously, are you just pulling my leg now or not?republique wrote:So?
What I say stands.
that is not the question from this thread.Ben wrote:republique, seriously, are you just pulling my leg now or not?republique wrote:So?
What I say stands.
Answer me this:
If an EEA national is resident in the UK on a self-sufficient basis, their non-EEA national spouse is working, do you think an application for a Residence Card submitted by the non-EEA spouse would be granted or refused?
No, it's a question I'm asking you.republique wrote:that is not the question from this thread.Ben wrote:republique, seriously, are you just pulling my leg now or not?republique wrote:So?
What I say stands.
Answer me this:
If an EEA national is resident in the UK on a self-sufficient basis, their non-EEA national spouse is working, do you think an application for a Residence Card submitted by the non-EEA spouse would be granted or refused?
Again not the questionBen wrote:No, it's a question I'm asking you.republique wrote:that is not the question from this thread.Ben wrote:republique, seriously, are you just pulling my leg now or not?republique wrote:So?
What I say stands.
Answer me this:
If an EEA national is resident in the UK on a self-sufficient basis, their non-EEA national spouse is working, do you think an application for a Residence Card submitted by the non-EEA spouse would be granted or refused?
Anyway, the answer is, as I'm sure you know, yes - the non-EEA spouse of an EEA national who is not working in the UK (but the non-EEA spouse himself is working), would receive a Residence Card upon application.
This is because the EEA national has the right of residence and thus so does her non-EEA national spouse.
That right of residence didn't suddenly appear three months or three years after their initial entry to the UK - it was there since day one, as it is in the case of the OP.
Now do you follow?
You say the question is:republique wrote:Again not the questionBen wrote:No, it's a question I'm asking you.republique wrote:that is not the question from this thread.Ben wrote:
republique, seriously, are you just pulling my leg now or not?
Answer me this:
If an EEA national is resident in the UK on a self-sufficient basis, their non-EEA national spouse is working, do you think an application for a Residence Card submitted by the non-EEA spouse would be granted or refused?
Anyway, the answer is, as I'm sure you know, yes - the non-EEA spouse of an EEA national who is not working in the UK (but the non-EEA spouse himself is working), would receive a Residence Card upon application.
This is because the EEA national has the right of residence and thus so does her non-EEA national spouse.
That right of residence didn't suddenly appear three months or three years after their initial entry to the UK - it was there since day one, as it is in the case of the OP.
Now do you follow?
The question is can the non eu spouse work for the one day the eu non resident is in the country, its no. GET IT?
Wanderer wrote:What if the OP's employer or contractee wants to see proof of eligibility of his right to work in this manner, what can he show?
But in this case the OP resides with his Norwegian wife in Norway under Norwegian residency rules. No treaty rights are being exercised. Yet!Ben wrote:Wanderer wrote:What if the OP's employer or contractee wants to see proof of eligibility of his right to work in this manner, what can he show?
- The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006.
- His marriage certificate.
- Proof that his spouse is present in the UK and has been so for less than three months.
You are absolutely wrong. Just because the EU national can exercise residency rights from day one does not make him a resident. This is your fatal error. I do not need to read the legislation. As I told you repeating it doesn't mean you have interpreted it or analyzed it which you clearly have failed to do.Ben wrote:You say the question is:republique wrote: Again not the question
The question is can the non eu spouse work for the one day the eu non resident is in the country, its no. GET IT?
Can the non-EEA national spouse work for the one day the EU national non-resident is in the country.
Are we agreed on that, at least? Splendid.
Right. "EU national non-resident is in the country" doesn't make sense. If the EEA national is in the territory of another Member State, she has right of residence immediately and unconditionally for up to three months. She is a resident in accordance with the conditions of the Directive.
Further, if an EEA national is in the territory of another Member State where she has the right of residence, her non-EEA national spouse has the right to join or accompany her there.
While present in the territory of that Member State and while maintaining the right of residence, both or either the EEA national or her non-EEA spouse have right to equal treatment with the nationals of that Member State. I.E., the right to work, to be self-employed, or to study.
I seem to be repeating myself here and it's honestly getting tiresome. Republique, why don't you have a good read of the Directive? The case of the OP is extremely straightforward yet you seem to be denying that the rights of the spouse of the OP (and of the OP himself) actually exist. Why? Is it because the couple would be only present in the territory of another Member State for one day? Do you feel that the rights provided for in the Directive only "kick-in" after a certain length time? What is it?
Yes, but if the couple were to enter the UK, for example, they'd be entering in accordance with the Directive and entitled to work from day one.Wanderer wrote:But in this case the OP resides with his Norwegian wife in Norway under Norwegian residency rules. No treaty rights are being exercised. Yet!Ben wrote:Wanderer wrote:What if the OP's employer or contractee wants to see proof of eligibility of his right to work in this manner, what can he show?
- The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006.
- His marriage certificate.
- Proof that his spouse is present in the UK and has been so for less than three months.
Republique, with respect I think you are wrong. You do need to read the legislation. The Directive is clear and national transpositions of it are clear. The EU citizen is resident. See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/06 ... -question/ for extracts from some of the laws.republique wrote:You are absolutely wrong. Just because the EU national can exercise residency rights from day one does not make him a resident. This is your fatal error. I do not need to read the legislation. As I told you repeating it doesn't mean you have interpreted it or analyzed it which you clearly have failed to do.
Legally you are resident from the time you step off the plane. You may not feel resident, and it may not matter in so many ways, but you are resident. And you are required to be treated in the same way as citizens of the member state where you are located (and resident!).republique wrote:And as someone just recently pointed out what if the employer wants proof the EU National intends to reside. You want to be a resident, I presume you have at least found a place to stay for a week to find housing to be a resident. If you don't have that or a rental lease then you are not trying to be a resident. Passing through doesn't make you a resident, it makes you a visitor which EU nationals do everyday.
If you have no intention to be a resident, you are not a resident. You are talking about objectively when the eu person with non eu spouse gets off the plane, can they be considered as one. Sure. Are they? Not if they just plan to be there for the day. And as you just proved my point, it is very unlikely any employer is going to go with this understanding to employ a non eu person with eu spouse as their shadow for one day whatever the legislation says because everyone wants documentation. You see people every day whining how they were already working and their visas have to be renewed and the employer is kicking them into the street because they want an airtight basis to continue employing someone. It is not going work for the OP to work one day with an EU spouse in tow. Plain and simple.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Republique, with respect I think you are wrong. You do need to read the legislation. The Directive is clear and national transpositions of it are clear. The EU citizen is resident. See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/06 ... -question/ for extracts from some of the laws.republique wrote:You are absolutely wrong. Just because the EU national can exercise residency rights from day one does not make him a resident. This is your fatal error. I do not need to read the legislation. As I told you repeating it doesn't mean you have interpreted it or analyzed it which you clearly have failed to do.
Legally you are resident from the time you step off the plane. You may not feel resident, and it may not matter in so many ways, but you are resident. And you are required to be treated in the same way as citizens of the member state where you are located (and resident!).republique wrote:And as someone just recently pointed out what if the employer wants proof the EU National intends to reside. You want to be a resident, I presume you have at least found a place to stay for a week to find housing to be a resident. If you don't have that or a rental lease then you are not trying to be a resident. Passing through doesn't make you a resident, it makes you a visitor which EU nationals do everyday.
What is your point exactly then? Maybe you should be explicit about it and explain.republique wrote:If you have no intention to be a resident, you are not a resident. You are talking about objectively when the eu person with non eu spouse gets off the plane, can they be considered as one. Sure. Are they? Not if they just plan to be there for the day. And as you just proved my point, it is very unlikely any employer is going to go with this understanding to employ a non eu person with eu spouse as their shadow for one day whatever the legislation says because everyone wants documentation