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HSMP and accusations in forgery... very urgent!

Archived UK Tier 1 (General) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

Moderators: Casa, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, Administrator

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proska
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HSMP and accusations in forgery... very urgent!

Post by proska » Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:26 pm

just an urgent question here.

A friend of mine applied for HSMP (in country) and also submitted her passport as her LTR was going to expire. She was rejected HSMP and scored 15 points. In her passport they put a stamp that she was is refused extension because of Documents Forgery!
How could this have happened and why? How can she prove the documents are not forged and just reverse the whole process? And ... if she is accused of forgery, will she be detained unless she proves otherwise?

Please plaese answer soon!

blooking
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what kind?

Post by blooking » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:38 pm

did they tell you what kind of forgery? e.g. could not verify work experience etc

proska
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Re: what kind?

Post by proska » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:53 am

blooking wrote:did they tell you what kind of forgery? e.g. could not verify work experience etc

No, they did not! They just said "the evidence was not accurate", the polite way of saying "forgery"....
My friend did not score in earnings and past employment sections of the application. So I guess they think the forgery is there. How can she prove it is not a forgery? Also, will she be rejected her furter entry clearance from overseas?

Please answer my question. My friend is quite shocked and I am terrified myself as I was also going to apply...

I would ask the moderators and everyone who has an experience of this share their views.

Many thanks.
Proska

John
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Post by John » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:53 am

Proska wrote:They just said "the evidence was not accurate", the polite way of saying "forgery"....
Not necessarily at all. It could just mean that they think, err, the evidence was not accurate!

So rather than "How can she prove it is not a forgery?", maybe better to think about "How can she prove it was accurate?".

As regards "In her passport they put a stamp that she was is refused extension because of Documents Forgery! ". What exactly did they put in her passport to indicate that?
John

Jeff Albright
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Post by Jeff Albright » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:51 pm

I think she will need to get in touch on the phone with whoever was dealing with her application and ask for reasons if she believes her application was treated unfairly.
It may be hard to get in touch but she will have to try.

MWazir
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Post by MWazir » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:29 pm

She was rejected HSMP and scored 15 points. In her passport they put a stamp that she was is refused extension because of Documents Forgery!
They just said "the evidence was not accurate", the polite way of saying "forgery"....
If there has been any illegal, wilfull wrong representation, I doubt if they are going to be polite about it. Is it possible that they have declined to give LTR because the basis of FLR was an HSMP approval which your friend did not get. Since there is no HSMP approval, wouldnt that make the FLR application inaccurate.

proska
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Post by proska » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:18 am

Hello everyone,

and thanks for your answers!

Yes, her FLR was rejected because it was dependant upon HSMP application. They did not mention in her passport - the word forgery, only that the applicatiuon was refused. But, given the fact that she did not score anything in emloyment and earnings section, it means they did not believe those documents? My logic is that one does not believe a signed, stamped tax return, what can be the reason?
I have read in one of the threads here that they never mention the word "forgery", but by giving 0 points in some sections they actually mean it.

yodiyokun
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Post by yodiyokun » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:57 am

proska,
I think your conclusion may not be accurate.
In the refusal letter, they officer reviewing that application normally explains the reason for not giving points in each section.
and I agree with John , the evidence submitted may not be accurate to gain points in experience and earnings.
My bow has been renewed

John
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Post by John » Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:05 am

I think MWazir has summed this up very neatly. She applied for FLR on the basis of having HSMP approval. She ends up not getting that HSMP approval and .... surprise surprise .... the application for FLR is rejected.

It seems to me that the expression "the evidence was not accurate" could easily cover the above circumstance.
John

MWazir
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Post by MWazir » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:38 pm

I have read in one of the threads here that they never mention the word "forgery", but by giving 0 points in some sections they actually mean it.
Completly false.

Say someone has claimed 110 points, got approved, but didnt get points in one of the sections he claimed, does that mean he has forged documents to get points in that area and yet got approved? Trust me, there will be large number of applications (rejected and approved) who have not got all the points they have claimed. The basic premise of getting HSMP approval is to CLAIM points and back it up with evidence. It is then upto the caseworker to determine if your claim can withstand the scrutiny they will subject based on their guidelines.

You may have worked in a job for a few years and been hired by your company because you were a graduate. If the case worker feels that your job can be done by a non-graduate, they are not saying you comitted forgery, they simply disagree with your claim for graduate level work experience. As simple as that.
My logic is that one does not believe a signed, stamped tax return, what can be the reason?
Without knowing the details of your friend's application, it would be down to pure guess work. But if she has submitted tax documents and still not recieved any points for salary, then again there could be a number of reasons. Did she send in at least two forms of evidence for salary. If she is working in this country., then she should have 3 types of evidence to present - bank statements, salary slips and year end tax documents. Has she checked to confirm that her salary falls within the slab for UK earnings to claim points? It could also be that there has been some oversight on the part of the caseworker and your friend actually is entitled to the points after all.

Finally, if you disagree with the case workers's assessment, you can still ask for a couple of reviews where you can detail why you think your application deserved more points and an approval

allta
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Post by allta » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:52 pm

The thing is there is no way to provide a solution to a problem if you really don't understand or know the cause of that problem in details.

From my own point of view, I believe the problem is not that she never earned points in the work experience n salary section, I think the problem is that she claimed her HSMP has been approved while it's still under processing. Believe me, if she had passed the HSMP; I'm sure they could have given her.

At this point I want to advise everyone that the HSMP should go in first before FLR. By the time you get result from HSMP team, if successfull, Goodluck! if not, then they simply reject your claims and you have the liberty to re-apply with a more stronger claims backing. This should in no way cause the FLR guys to stamp your passport for refusal due to forgery or no forgery in anyway at all.
No man can be an Island of Knowledge, a Tree doesn't make a forest

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