New EU court ruling over freedom of movement.

[archigabe]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8532868.stm

The European Court of Justice has said some migrant families can stay in the UK and claim benefits - even if the main worker has left the country.

The court, which deals with EU law, said some families must be allowed to stay when their child was in education.

A child's education was paramount, so parents could not be told to leave if they could not support themselves.

[Obie]

There is nothing very new about this ruling, I don't know why the HO felt dissappointed. This is something that was more or less dealt with in Baumbast. I see no reason for this same case being sent to ECJ. Perhaps the UK courts thought they would have changed their minds over the years.

How inconcievable would it be for a Union Citizen who has fully integrated in UK education system, being told he/she would have to leave, because his or her parents are claiming excessive, not fraudulent benefit.

[Wanderer]

How inconcievable would it be for a Union Citizen who has fully integrated in UK education system, being told he/she would have to leave, because his or her parents are claiming excessive, not fraudulent benefit.

Oxymoron there mate....

[Richard66]

I gather one of them is a Dane whose mother is a Somali. Where would they be deported to? The child to Denmark and the mother to Somalia or would both be deported to Somalia? Would deporting the child to Somalia be legal, as it is an EEA citizen? Would Denmark take the Somali mother in? Not going into the merit of the situation, my blood chills when I think of the ideas they have at the HO.

Here we are talking of 2 people. Meanwhile in the streets of London you cannot throw a stone without hitting at least three illegal immigrants that do not risk imminent deportation.

[Pakhtoon]

I gather one of them is a Dane whose mother is a Somali. Where would they be deported to? The child to Denmark and the mother to Somalia or would both be deported to Somalia? Would deporting the child to Somalia be legal, as it is an EEA citizen? Would Denmark take the Somali mother in? Not going into the merit of the situation, my blood chills when I think of the ideas they have at the HO.

Here we are talking of 2 people. Meanwhile in the streets of London you cannot throw a stone without hitting at least three illegal immigrants that do not risk imminent deportation.

::clapping::

[Wanderer]

I gather one of them is a Dane whose mother is a Somali. Where would they be deported to? The child to Denmark and the mother to Somalia or would both be deported to Somalia? Would deporting the child to Somalia be legal, as it is an EEA citizen? Would Denmark take the Somali mother in? Not going into the merit of the situation, my blood chills when I think of the ideas they have at the HO.

Here we are talking of 2 people. Meanwhile in the streets of London you cannot throw a stone without hitting at least three illegal immigrants that do not risk imminent deportation.

Somalia for me - in these days of cheap and easy travel the laws of right to reside need tightening up - this judgement gives the green light for the worlds scum to drop down here, procreate and count the benefits coming in.

So I would make the right of legal residence dependant on age - 18 - under that u have the same rights as the parent/carer looking after you, ie not many if u abuse the system. In fact I'd maybe go a step farther, make it so BC is only conferred to the children of those born here who are legal residents at time of the birth.

Much as I love the concept of the EU and freedom of movement, I fear the tree-huggers have got hold and unless drastic measures are taken, the EU will sink supporting all these spongers.

Bear in mind I uphold the right to remain of any genuine case - just seems to me this judgement doesn't do that.

[Pakhtoon]

Why not abolish the benefits system all together ? Let the people work and earn for themselves, there could be support for people who can't find work or disabled etc. Wouldn't that be a better solution ?

Personally I find it mind-blowing that people from other countries come, to UK or any other country for that matter, and start living off the hosts. This is in my opinion the biggest reason why the otherwise tolerant locals turn to become anti-immigrants.

[thsths]

So I would make the right of legal residence dependant on age - 18 - under that u have the same rights as the parent/carer looking after you, ie not many if u abuse the system.

And why would you give adults the right to move and prosper, but not children? I think that on the contrary they deserve additional protection, exactly because they are so often used as pawns in international games. I agree that we cannot provide the best possible circumstances for every child, but we can certainly try for the European children. (And this case is about European children.)

In fact I'd maybe go a step farther, make it so BC is only conferred to the children of those born here who are legal residents at time of the birth.

That is already the case, in fact the parents are required to have Permanent Residence or ILR before the child can become BC.

Much as I love the concept of the EU and freedom of movement, I fear the tree-huggers have got hold and unless drastic measures are taken, the EU will sink supporting all these spongers.

I am more worried that children are used as a means to an end. History and even some present societies are full of such cases, and they cause a lot of suffering. Some hurdles are necessary to prevent this, such as required minimum residence or schooling periods etc.

[Richard66]

But, Wanderer, would you send a Danish child to Somalia, a hotbed of Islamic militants ready to chop off the head of any Dane? Remember the cartoons? What fate would the mother suffer, as she has been rash enough to marry of all people a Dane?

It is also a country without a government and, for all I know, there is no authority that issues passports for them.

The other plaintiff was Portuguese and being sent together with the mother, who was also Portuguese, back to Portugal would have been no great deal. But, wait a moment! The children or Portuguese citizens are not necessarily Portuguese! What was the citizenship of the father?

Ber in mind I am not talking about benefits or no benefits: I am just wondering where these children will be sent to and with whom.

The problem is much greater than just cutting benefits: it is about splitting families. The solution? Steps should be taken by the UK and the EU to avoid such a situation arising.

[86ti]

The other plaintiff was Portuguese and being sent together with the mother, who was also Portuguese, back to Portugal would have been no great deal. But, wait a moment! The children or Portuguese citizens are not necessarily Portuguese! What was the citizenship of the father?

Portuguese.

[Richard66]

A much simpler case and I fail to see why the child would suffer if made to return to Portugal. Nothing, however, prevented the mother from working. or so it seems to me.

I would say two quite different cases were hurdled together. One deserved consideration, the other not really.

[thsths]

A much simpler case and I fail to see why the child would suffer if made to return to Portugal.

Maybe they don't speak Portuguese? It is not usually a good idea to interrupt the kid's schooling, and the law just acknowledges that.

You are right about working, but that is a question of the benefit system, and I am skeptical of the government for pushing children into childcare at ridiculously early ages. There has to be a balance .

[Richard66]

Indeed. As our daughter learns both English and Russian it escaped my mind that the child of two Portuguese citizens might not speak the language.

[Wanderer]

Indeed. As our daughter learns both English and Russian it escaped my mind that the child of two Portuguese citizens might not speak the language.

The Polish kids at my daughters school seem to pick it up easily enough.

[Richard66]

They pick up Portuguese?

My father was posted during WWII with Dutch troops somewhere in the Far East (or was it in Orkney?). He ended up speaking Dutch! Though he was also posted with a Scottish regiment, but he could understand nothing they said! Ay ay!