eu treaty rights : sister

[ciarabon]

hie there eveyone
i am a british citizen and will be working in dublin as a midwife from august 2010. now my question is can i bring my sister and her daughter who currently live with me since 2007(she is asylum seeker in the uk and cannot support herself and her family bcoz of uk backlog she wont get a response until 2011 0r 2012) i dont want to leave her behind in the uk as she will be on her own with no financial or social support.A friend has told us that she could come to ireland with her as my dependent if i am excercising eu treaty rights ,has anybody had any success with such a complex case?

[IrishTom]

Asylum seekers that follow their amigos and move country when need be. So, shes not an asylum seeker, shes an economic migrant. Ireland will probably accept it so.

[ciarabon]

[quote="IrishTom"]Asylum seekers that follow their amigos and move country when need be. So, shes not an asylum seeker, shes an economic migrant. Ireland will probably accept it so.


so what are you trying to imply , in my post did i state that she would like to apply for asylum in ireland ? of course not , i have merely asked if i could bring her along with me as my dependent when i start my new job. i have looked after her for a while and have never been dependent on the uk social welfare system. so i dont see where you are coming from.its not for you to judge that she is an economic migrant .that is the job of the uk immigration authorities.

[Ben]

Hi ciarabon.

Without prejudice to any right to free movement and residence the persons concerned may have
in their own right, the host Member State shall, in accordance with its national legislation, facilitate
entry and residence for the following persons:
(a) any other family members, irrespective of their nationality, not falling under the definition in
point 2 of Article 2 who, in the country from which they have come, are dependants or
members of the household of the Union citizen having the primary right of residence, or
where serious health grounds strictly require the personal care of the family member by the
Union citizen;

So yes, your sister is entitled to move with you to Ireland where her entry and residence must be facilitated in accordance with EU Directive 2004/38/EC and with Ireland's transposition, Statutory Instrument 656 of 2006.

[koded]

So yes, your sister is entitled to move with you to Ireland where her entry and residence must be facilitated in accordance with EU Directive 2004/38/EC and with Ireland's transposition, Statutory Instrument 656 of 2006.

[/quote]

But I think in her sister's case she need to apply for Irish visa in UK which I think may be difficult to issue that kind of visa since her status in UK is not clarified yet. Because Irish embassy in Uk will demand from her a proof of residence in Uk. In her case she is not a spouse or a child that is under 18 which eu treaty give automatic right of free movement.
Anyway, there is no harm in trying. So you can always try and see how it goes.
I must also point that she dont need to say she is asylum seeker as that may disqualify her from applying for visa.

[Ben]

But I think in her sister's case she need to apply for Irish visa in UK which I think may be difficult to issue that kind of visa since her status in UK is not clarified yet. Because Irish embassy in Uk will demand from her a proof of residence in Uk.

Not since Metock.

Visa not an issue if entering via Northern Ireland, save the hassle.

[IrishTom]

so what are you trying to imply , in my post did i state that she would like to apply for asylum in ireland ? of course not , i have merely asked if i could bring her along with me as my dependent when i start my new job. i have looked after her for a while and have never been dependent on the uk social welfare system. so i dont see where you are coming from.its not for you to judge that she is an economic migrant .that is the job of the uk immigration authorities.

If the UK authorities find out shes skipping off to Ireland, they will refuse her refugee status.

[Ben]

If the UK authorities find out shes skipping off to Ireland, they will refuse her refugee status.

Probably, but since she's no longer seeking refuge in the UK one would assume that she accepts this.

[IrishTom]

Visa not an issue if entering via Northern Ireland, save the hassle.

Bad advice. One, its illegal and two, checks at the border are more regular since the recession kicked in. We have feck all immigration controls, is it too much to ask for people to abide by them?

[El shaddai]

Hi Irish tom,
Please try as much as possible to be polite with people at least for the sake of other notable think-tank in this Amiable Forum. Stop been a chief judge in people's problems and predicament. Your utterances sometimes is very helpful but most of the times it is very damaging,disastrous,humiliating and uncontrolable. Calm down and take life easy.Cheers

NO CONDITION IS PERMANENT

[Ben]

Visa not an issue if entering via Northern Ireland, save the hassle.

Bad advice. One, its illegal and two, checks at the border are more regular since the recession kicked in. We have feck all immigration controls, is it too much to ask for people to abide by them?

I'm afraid you're wrong there, Tom.

It is entirely lawful for a UK national to enter Ireland in the company of their non-EEA national family member who was a member of the UK national's household in the country for which they have come.

Additionally, and as I mentioned in my previous post, it may be easier* to enter Ireland over land, rather than by air or sea, on account of the lack of border controls on Ireland's land border with the UK.

*as in, no need to obtain an Irish entry visa.

Drive across the border, don't take public transport.

[Monifé]

I think the OP's sister would also have to withdraw her claim for asylum in UK. If she leaves while her case is still ongoing, this is seen as unlawful, and it could hinder her future attempts to get visas for various EU countries.

Simple process though i think, just withdraw from asylum and then come over here using the EU directive of free movement.

[ciarabon]

I think the OP's sister would also have to withdraw her claim for asylum in UK. If she leaves while her case is still ongoing, this is seen as unlawful, and it could hinder her future attempts to get visas for various EU countries.

Simple process though i think, just withdraw from asylum and then come over here using the EU directive of free movement.

thanks monife. my sister will be withdrawing her claim for asylum here in the uk prior to making an application to the irish authorities for the eutr visa(could not find the right terminology for it).
to everyone else thank youvery much for your input will let you know if all goes well.

[Ben]

making an application to the irish authorities for the eutr visa(could not find the right terminology for it).

I think you're letting yourself in for more headache by applying for an EUTR visa. Seriously. Just enter via Northern Ireland.

[ciarabon]

making an application to the irish authorities for the eutr visa(could not find the right terminology for it).

I think you're letting yourself in for more headache by applying for an EUTR visa. Seriously. Just enter via Northern Ireland.

ummm... not very sure about this though , i am a registered nurse - midwife and if i get into trouble with the police(even a caution) this could have implications for my career and what if me and my sis run into the authorities trying to get in via northern ireland ?probably the easiest option but i would need to think about this carefully.
thanks though

[Ben]

making an application to the irish authorities for the eutr visa(could not find the right terminology for it).

I think you're letting yourself in for more headache by applying for an EUTR visa. Seriously. Just enter via Northern Ireland.

ummm... not very sure about this though , i am a registered nurse - midwife and if i get into trouble with the police(even a caution) this could have implications for my career and what if me and my sis run into the authorities trying to get in via northern ireland ?probably the easiest option but i would need to think about this carefully.
thanks though

Why, would you be doing something illegal?

[IrishTom]

Ireland is exporting her trained nurses and mid wifes. I remember watching PrimeTime and all our recent nursing graduates were forced to emigrate.

Why in the name of Jebus are we exporting our own whilst importing foreigners and their asylum seeking brethren? Id nearly call it treason.

[ciarabon]

Ireland is exporting her trained nurses and mid wifes. I remember watching PrimeTime and all our recent nursing graduates were forced to emigrate.

Why in the name of Jebus are we exporting our own whilst importing foreigners and their asylum seeking brethren? Id nearly call it treason.

are you trying to be controversial, sarcastic or what ? anyway i shall not comment any further this would just be dignifying the rubbish which you are trying to enforce go and try it elswhere
its not my fault that a lot of irish nurses do not have the qualifications and experience which british trained (and citizens like me) have got.
its a tough world out there, i dont apologise for what i have managed to do in my short life yes registered nurse/ midwife Bsc (hons) and Msc as well and can go and work wherever i want to work and bring along my [asylum seeking brethren (i did not make the eu laws).
tough

[ciarabon]

making an application to the irish authorities for the eutr visa(could not find the right terminology for it).

I think you're letting yourself in for more headache by applying for an EUTR visa. Seriously. Just enter via Northern Ireland.

ummm... not very sure about this though , i am a registered nurse - midwife and if i get into trouble with the police(even a caution) this could have implications for my career and what if me and my sis run into the authorities trying to get in via northern ireland ?probably the easiest option but i would need to think about this carefully.
thanks though

Why, would you be doing something illegal?

Because i have always been told that its ok for a uk national like me to travel within the common travel area .ie from nbelfast to dublin without a visa but not for my sister who is a non uk national as she would need a visa first befre travelling. so that is where my concern is when travelling with her .
ta.

[Ben]

I think you're letting yourself in for more headache by applying for an EUTR visa. Seriously. Just enter via Northern Ireland.

ummm... not very sure about this though , i am a registered nurse - midwife and if i get into trouble with the police(even a caution) this could have implications for my career and what if me and my sis run into the authorities trying to get in via northern ireland ?probably the easiest option but i would need to think about this carefully.
thanks though

Why, would you be doing something illegal?

Because i have always been told that its ok for a uk national like me to travel within the common travel area .ie from nbelfast to dublin without a visa but not for my sister who is a non uk national as she would need a visa first befre travelling. so that is where my concern is when travelling with her .
ta.

No. As clarified in the ECJ ruling in the case of Metock, it matters not how the non-EEA national family members enter the other Member State either in the company of, or to join, the EEA national. It also does not matter if the non-EEA national family member was not lawfully resident in another Member State.

It is lawful for you and your sister to enter Ireland together, from Northern Ireland.

[IrishTom]

Ireland is exporting her trained nurses and mid wifes. I remember watching PrimeTime and all our recent nursing graduates were forced to emigrate.

Why in the name of Jebus are we exporting our own whilst importing foreigners and their asylum seeking brethren? Id nearly call it treason.

are you trying to be controversial, sarcastic or what ? anyway i shall not comment any further this would just be dignifying the rubbish which you are trying to enforce go and try it elswhere
its not my fault that a lot of irish nurses do not have the qualifications and experience which british trained (and citizens like me) have got.
its a tough world out there, i dont apologise for what i have managed to do in my short life yes registered nurse/ midwife Bsc (hons) and Msc as well and can go and work wherever i want to work and bring along my [asylum seeking brethren (i did not make the eu laws).
tough

Look, I am sure you are brilliant in your job/vocation and I have nothing but respect for anyone who works in your field, but Ireland is exporting her own nursing graduates and importing foreigners. Thats lunacy. Oh, and by the way, Irish nurses are some of the best trained nurses in the world.

The PrimeTime clip is probably on YouTube.

[homingpigeon]

Hey well you voted this government into power deal with the " lunacy " that you're talking about.

[walrusgumble]

But I think in her sister's case she need to apply for Irish visa in UK which I think may be difficult to issue that kind of visa since her status in UK is not clarified yet. Because Irish embassy in Uk will demand from her a proof of residence in Uk.

Not since Metock.

Visa not an issue if entering via Northern Ireland, save the hassle.

metock applies to spouses only. its not fully clear whether it also applies to other family members like siblings/uncles etc. an english case on the interpretation of this was heard shortly after metock sounded that out. who knows though

[walrusgumble]

If the UK authorities find out shes skipping off to Ireland, they will refuse her refugee status.

Probably, but since she's no longer seeking refuge in the UK one would assume that she accepts this.

the irish authorities will find out some how and may be obliged to return her back to britian in order to finish the claim, after all that was the whole point of going to britian

Its not concrete regarding her rights iunder eu n light of her asylum claim and both authorities might accuse the sister of trying to "engineer a situation" to side steep the british immigration system

[Ben]

metock applies to spouses only. its not fully clear whether it also applies to other family members like siblings/uncles etc.

It is actually quite clear:

The right of a national of a non-member country who is a family member of a Union citizen to accompany or join that citizen cannot be made conditional on prior lawful residence in another Member State

the irish authorities will find out some how and may be obliged to return her back to britian in order to finish the claim, after all that was the whole point of going to britian

If the sister has the right of residence in Ireland, the Irish authorities may not deny her of this, nor may they return her to the UK.

Its not concrete regarding her rights iunder eu n light of her asylum claim and both authorities might accuse the sister of trying to "engineer a situation" to side steep the british immigration system

No. The right to reside exists if the sister was a member of the household in the country from which she and the EU national has come. No further conditions or exclusions may be applied.