Help on EU1 and possible Surinder Singh Route Back to UK

[JasonJTB]

My wife and i are currently living in South Africa and we have been married for 1yr and have been together for the last 5yrs and have 3 kids together.

My wife and our children are all british citizens.

I am south african and we lived together in the UK for about a 1yr before we came to south africa i have applied for spousal visa for UK but it keeps getting refused on the basis on maintenance(i dont have enough money)how ever i have saved over 3500GBP and we have appealed twice against the refusal and it still gets refused on the same thing even when i have a offer of employment in the UK and have a house avaliable to us in the UK.

So we have now decided to take the Surinder Singh Route

but what i would like to know is am i able to come to ireland 2months before my wife and kids come to seek employment and to get us a house as travelling with a family is very difficult and have all my documents in order such as our marriage certificate,proof of avaliable funds to me ect.

or would we need to come as a family together for me to apply for eu1 which will allow me to work as my wife wont need anything to work as she is eu citizen.we will both be working and have a babysitter and after 6months of both of us working go the Surinder Singh Route to get back to the UK.

any info or advice would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks Jason

[dublin3]

You will need to travel together and if you want to come two months before your wife comes to state then you can not apply for EU1.
Best thing for you to do is come together with you wife and at airport they will issue you one month visa and ask you to send EU1 application.

[JasonJTB]

You will need to travel together and if you want to come two months before your wife comes to state then you can not apply for EU1.
Best thing for you to do is come together with you wife and at airport they will issue you one month visa and ask you to send EU1 application.

Thanks rebel .

will i be able to work while waiting for a answer on the eu1 and what would we need documents wise for eu1

[John]

JasonJTB, I think you are missing an important point. That is, in order to use Surinder Singh route the important point is that the EEA national .... your wife .... is exercising EU/EEA Treaty Rights in another EEA country .... indeed exercising Treaty Rights in an economic way .... employed or self-employed.

It is not necessary for you to be working at all, in order to use the Surinder Singh route.

[JasonJTB]

JasonJTB, I think you are missing an important point. That is, in order to use Surinder Singh route the important point is that the EEA national .... your wife .... is exercising EU/EEA Treaty Rights in another EEA country .... indeed exercising Treaty Rights in an economic way .... employed or self-employed.

It is not necessary for you to be working at all, in order to use the Surinder Singh route.

I know that john

however i would like to work too as my job falls into a higher paid category as my wife is still busy studying reflexology and we have 3 kids to support and bills to pay and it dont feel right to me to depend on my wife for x amount of time.

[IrishTom]

however i would like to work too as my job falls into a higher paid category as my wife is still busy studying reflexology and we have 3 kids to support and bills to pay and it dont feel right to me to depend on my wife for x amount of time.

You are aware of the job situation in Ireland, yes? A word of advice, try and have something lined up before you come over. From talking to friends and acquaintances seeking employment, the job market is very, very tough at the moment.

[JasonJTB]

however i would like to work too as my job falls into a higher paid category as my wife is still busy studying reflexology and we have 3 kids to support and bills to pay and it dont feel right to me to depend on my wife for x amount of time.

You are aware of the job situation in Ireland, yes? A word of advice, try and have something lined up before you come over. From talking to friends and acquaintances seeking employment, the job market is very, very tough at the moment.

Thanks for that one Tom.

I do also hold a PSA badge which would also allow me to work as a door supervisor.so work for me would be easy to find in either IT or door supervising.

so would i be able to work while waiting for eu1 application!!!

[Obie]

Jason you first hurdle will be getting your wife to Ireland to arrange things like accommodation, job, business , bank account, PPS, etc, or getting her to accompany you to Ireland.

Assuming you are a South African national, you will not be required to obtain an Irish Visa.

The most important and vital thing is ensuring your wife is exercising treaty rights in an Economic or non-Economically active capacity.

As you are intending on returning to the UK, i will advice that you go for the former option, as non economically active person will not be allowed to return to the UK with their non- EEA family member, although i think this is wrong in light of the changes that has occurred in the EU over the years, with the adoption of Citizen of the Union and all the rest.

Once an application is being lodged, you will certainly be allowed to work, provided the department would care to send the minister's letter inviting you to the GNIB to get a 6 month Stamp 4/ work permits, which covers the time you application will be examined or considered.

[JasonJTB]

Jason you first hurdle will be getting your wife to Ireland to arrange things like accommodation, job, business , bank account, PPS, etc, or getting her to accompany you to Ireland.

Assuming you are a South African national, you will not be required to obtain an Irish Visa.

The most important and vital thing is ensuring your wife is exercising treaty rights in an Economic or non-Economically active capacity.

As you are intending on returning to the UK, i will advice that you go for the former option, as non economically active person will not be allowed to return to the UK with their non- EEA family member, although i think this is wrong in light of the changes that has occurred in the EU over the years, with the adoption of Citizen of the Union and all the rest.

Once an application is being lodged, you will certainly be allowed to work, provided the department would care to send the minister's letter inviting you to the GNIB to get a 6 month Stamp 4/ work permits, which covers the time you application will be examined or considered.

thansks for the info Obie

just unclear about one or two of the things u mentioned but check your PMs

[John]

The most important and vital thing is ensuring your wife is exercising treaty rights in an Economic or non-Economically active capacity.

No, the EEA person has got to be exercising Treaty Rights in an economic way ...... employee or self-employed ..... in order to go on to use the Surinder Singh route.

[Obie]

John, i do appreciate that the Union Citizen would need to be exercising treaty rights in an economically active capacity in order for the spouse to benefit from Surinder Singh.

However this is not the case if he wants to secure a Residence Card in Ireland, as he can apply as a family member of a Self- Sufficient person, showng a bank statement and a Sickness insurance.

If you read the ensuing paragraphs of my contribution, i did state that before returning to the UK, the wife would need to prove that she was either working or Self-Employed.

It is important to bear in mind that in 1992 when Surinder SIngh judgement was passed, people can only exercise treaty rights in an employed or self-employed capacity, since then we have had the concept " Union Citizen" adopted, and the rights of non- Economically active Union citizens promoted. This would had significiant impact on the wording of Surinder Singh, had these changes been in effect in 1992.

Lots of member states are adopting chance for the family members of their returning national, in the spirit of the Treaty and derective, however the same could not be said of the UK

[IrishTom]

Thanks for that one Tom.

I do also hold a PSA badge which would also allow me to work as a door supervisor.so work for me would be easy to find in either IT or door supervising.

I would advice you to apply for as many jobs as possible before you arrive. From what I am hearing, its a cut throat market out there at the moment. Its a job finding a job in itself.

Heres a word to the wise. In my experience, quite a few companies are only considering applications from those already resident in the state, be they foreign or Irish born. Trying to cut down on the unemployment figure, if you will.

When applying for a position from outside of Ireland, do not use your British address. Use an address of a friend or family member already resident in the state. It will give you more of a chance.

[JasonJTB]

Thanks for that one Tom.

I do also hold a PSA badge which would also allow me to work as a door supervisor.so work for me would be easy to find in either IT or door supervising.

I would advice you to apply for as many jobs as possible before you arrive. From what I am hearing, its a cut throat market out there at the moment. Its a job finding a job in itself.

Heres a word to the wise. In my experience, quite a few companies are only considering applications from those already resident in the state, be they foreign or Irish born. Trying to cut down on the unemployment figure, if you will.

When applying for a position from outside of Ireland, do not use your British address. Use an address of a friend or family member already resident in the state. It will give you more of a chance.

Thanks for the advice guys. all the info is greatly appreciated.

closer to the time of coming about a 3months before i will start hunting for a job as we still gonna save abit more for 2-3more months.

[JasonJTB]

I think i have some good news actually

My dad was speaking to a friend of his he has not seen in sometime and he was actually telling my dad that they maybe buying a pub in ireland in june so my dad thought heres a idea so he explained my situation about everything to his friend and he said to my dad that i must come see him tomorrow as he will be able to offer me a job of managing the pub and my wife could work in the pub too which means she is exercising her EU/EEA treaty rights and that we will be able to stay above the pub too.

which in turns means it would work out great for us.