ARE ECO'S ALLOWED TO DO THIS?

[Unknown1]

HI FOLKS. IM SOUTH AFRICAN AND MY SPOUSE IS BRITISH. WE HAVE BEEN MARRIED SINCE OCT 08 AND WE HAVE A 11 MONTH OLD SON TOGETHER. RECENTLY I APPLIED FOR A SPOUSE VISA AND THE ECO WAS SATISFIED THAT I MEET THE CRITERIA OF PARAGRAPH 281 HOWEVER, MY APPLICATION WAS REFUSED BECAUSE I DID NOT PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF MY FATHERS SOURCE OF MONEY THAT WAS TRANSFERRED FROM HIS BANK ACCOUNT TO MINE. WE GAVE EVIDENCE BY SUBMITTING BANK STATEMENTS (MINE AND MY DADS) THAT £2500 WAS GIVEN TO ME BY MY DAD. THE ECO REFUSED THE APPLICATION BECAUSE I DID NOT GIVE EVIDENCE OF WHERE MY DAD GOT THE £2500 FROM. I FIND THIS RATHER ODD BECAUSE I SUBMITTED BOTH MY PARENTS PAY-SLIPS WHEN APPLYING. HOW CAN YOU QUESTION SOMEONE WHO EARNS MORE THAN £1500 PER MONTH WHERE THEY GOT £2500? ANYWAY WE HAVE SENT THROUGH THE EVIDENCE TO THE BRITISH EMBASSY OF WHERE THE MONEY CAME FROM BUT WAS THE ECO ALLOWED TO REFUSE ME A SPOUSE VISA PURELY ON THOSE GROUNDS ONLY?

[ElenaW]

HI FOLKS. IM SOUTH AFRICAN AND MY SPOUSE IS BRITISH. WE HAVE BEEN MARRIED SINCE OCT 08 AND WE HAVE A 11 MONTH OLD SON TOGETHER. RECENTLY I APPLIED FOR A SPOUSE VISA AND THE ECO WAS SATISFIED THAT I MEET THE CRITERIA OF PARAGRAPH 281 HOWEVER, MY APPLICATION WAS REFUSED BECAUSE I DID NOT PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF MY FATHERS SOURCE OF MONEY THAT WAS TRANSFERRED FROM HIS BANK ACCOUNT TO MINE. WE GAVE EVIDENCE BY SUBMITTING BANK STATEMENTS (MINE AND MY DADS) THAT £2500 WAS GIVEN TO ME BY MY DAD. THE ECO REFUSED THE APPLICATION BECAUSE I DID NOT GIVE EVIDENCE OF WHERE MY DAD GOT THE £2500 FROM. I FIND THIS RATHER ODD BECAUSE I SUBMITTED BOTH MY PARENTS PAY-SLIPS WHEN APPLYING. HOW CAN YOU QUESTION SOMEONE WHO EARNS MORE THAN £1500 PER MONTH WHERE THEY GOT £2500? ANYWAY WE HAVE SENT THROUGH THE EVIDENCE TO THE BRITISH EMBASSY OF WHERE THE MONEY CAME FROM BUT WAS THE ECO ALLOWED TO REFUSE ME A SPOUSE VISA PURELY ON THOSE GROUNDS ONLY?

I guess they could. I've heard of a lot of cases where the ECO overlooked something, made a huge error in dates etc.. and then tried to blame the applicant of deception. Mistakes happen. I hope you get everything clarifed.

[Unknown1]

I guess they could. I've heard of a lot of cases where the ECO overlooked something, made a huge error in dates etc.. and then tried to blame the applicant of deception. Mistakes happen. I hope you get everything clarifed.

BUT NOWHERE DOES IT STATE THAT IF SOMEONE GIVES YOU MONEY, THEN YOU SHOULD GIVE EVIDENCE AS TO WHERE THEY GOT THAT MONEY FROM. IT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL ESPECIALLY BCOZ MY DAD IS EMPLOYED. I FIND IT SILLY THAT I HAVE BEEN REFUSED A SPOUSE VISA. IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT. HAD IT BEEN, THEN SURE I WOULD HAVE DONE SO

[batleykhan]

Give us the exact reason for refusal.

I think what they are saying is that you might be recieving 3rd party support which they do not recognise as yet, even though a recent court hearing allowed it.

Give us the exact wording of teh refusal and you might recieve the correct advise.

Please do not type in capital letters as cap letters denotes an angry person

[ElenaW]

I guess they could. I've heard of a lot of cases where the ECO overlooked something, made a huge error in dates etc.. and then tried to blame the applicant of deception. Mistakes happen. I hope you get everything clarifed.

BUT NOWHERE DOES IT STATE THAT IF SOMEONE GIVES YOU MONEY, THEN YOU SHOULD GIVE EVIDENCE AS TO WHERE THEY GOT THAT MONEY FROM. IT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL ESPECIALLY BCOZ MY DAD IS EMPLOYED. I FIND IT SILLY THAT I HAVE BEEN REFUSED A SPOUSE VISA. IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT. HAD IT BEEN, THEN SURE I WOULD HAVE DONE SO

It kind of ties into the whole "no third party support" thing. If the ECO thought that your father was giving you money to support you then this may be the reason for the refusal. There is yet no guidance on third party support so they may refuse applicants based on this unfortunatly.

[Unknown1]

This is what the ECO said, " I am aware that your father had £2500 transferred to his account on 6 January and on the 8 January the same amount of £2500 was then transferred to you. You have not given evidence as to where your father received the £2500 so therefore I am not satisfied that this money is available to you and that, on the balance of probabilities, I am not satisfied that you can maintain yourself and any dependents without recourse to public funds..."

My bank balance was £6700 but because he didn't know where my father received the £2500 which he gave me I was refused. Just because the ECO did not know where my father got the £2500 he thought I will resort to public funds. That is pure madness, he overlooked the fact that I had an extra £4200 reflecting on my bank account. Plus I submitted a genuine job offer letter from the UK. I fail to understand how he thinks I will need the public purse to help me out financially.

[ElenaW]

This is what the ECO said, " I am aware that your father had £2500 transferred to his account on 6 January and on the 8 January the same amount of £2500 was then transferred to you. You have not given evidence as to where your father received the £2500 so therefore I am not satisfied that this money is available to you and that, on the balance of probabilities, I am not satisfied that you can maintain yourself and any dependents without recourse to public funds..."

My bank balance was £6700 but because he didn't know where my father received the £2500 which he gave me I was refused. Just because the ECO did not know where my father got the £2500 he thought I will resort to public funds. That is pure madness, he overlooked the fact that I had an extra £4200 reflecting on my bank account. Plus I submitted a genuine job offer letter from the UK. I fail to understand how he thinks I will need the public purse to help me out financially.

I agree, this is very crap. Does your father have proof of where it came from?

[Unknown1]

I agree, this is very crap. Does your father have proof of where it came from?

Yes Sir. Its transferred from his savings account into his current account. The only reason why he transferred was because he cant directly withdraw from his savings. Nonetheless, we later faxed the 2 Bank statements (savings and current accounts) to the British Embassy after I was refused.

[ElenaW]

I agree, this is very crap. Does your father have proof of where it came from?

Yes Sir. Its transferred from his savings account into his current account. The only reason why he transferred was because he cant directly withdraw from his savings. Nonetheless, we later faxed the 2 Bank statements (savings and current accounts) to the British Embassy after I was refused.

I think what they want to see is where your father got this money in the first place. Was it savings from working or something like that?

[Unknown1]

I think what they want to see is where your father got this money in the first place. Was it savings from working or something like that?

Yeah its savings from personal income. Just like any wise person would save a portion of their salary. My father has been employed for the past 30 years as a School Head Teacher and has never been unemployed. He has a steady habit of saving.

[ElenaW]

I think what they want to see is where your father got this money in the first place. Was it savings from working or something like that?

Yeah its savings from personal income. Just like any wise person would save a portion of their salary. My father has been has been employed for the past 30 years as a School Head Teacher and has never been unemployed. He has a steady habit of saving.

That's good. Then IMO you have a lot of positives going for you in the appeal process . I'm sorry they made it so difficult for you, a genuine person who followed the rules.

[Unknown1]

All it takes is one ECO to put EVERYTHING on hold for months. Anyway thanks Boulevardofbrokendreams

[batleykhan]

Having read the refusal, I think the ECO is within his right to ask why your dad transferred this money into your account, BUT he is not within his right to ask where he got the money, as that is an irrevlevant question to your application.

In view of this I would appeal against the refusal wiuthin 28 days and rightfully state how and why your father has given you this reason.

Due to this transaction, I think the ECO is saying that without help from your family, you are unable to supportyourself and family.

I think they will overturn the decision maybe upon a review after you have appealed, if not it will almost certainly be overtuned on appeal as now even 3rd party support is allowed.

Definetly appeal,it may take a few months,but it willbe worth it.Dont reapply and pay full fee again.

I think you have been hard done,but this type of refusal is not uncommon.

Good luck

[Pakhtoon]

Yes Sir.

Boulevard is a girl.

[batleykhan]

Unknown1 wrote:

Yes Sir.


Boulevard is a girl.

She is a married woman from west yorkshire/san francisco to be precise

[ElenaW]

hehe yeah it's my fault for picking a masculine sounding username. I don't know which part of it makes people think that I'm a guy. Is it the boulevard part?

[Unknown1]

My apologies lol... Sorry Boulevard. I really thought u were a guy

[ElenaW]

My apologies lol... Sorry Boulevard. I really thought u were a guy

It's cool no worries.

[Zaryaab]

I need any advise on the same topic. My spouse have applied for settlement visa but refused on the same grounds. The ECO said that he is not satisfied on the balance of probabilities that the funds will be genuinly available to him and he is not satisfied on the origin of funds. I am mother of 3 children, have diabeties and also had complicated surgery in last August when my younger son was born (six months). Appealed against the decision but the appeal is pending until june 2 and date will be set after that deadline. My question is what requirment ECM need to c as a proof of origin of funds (husband) (I am on benefits) ECO refused under 281 paragraph 1v an v.
I need advise how to proof the origin of funds and can i expediate my appeal on the grounds of diabetes, insulin dependent, three children and complication due to the surgery. My husband did submit the edequate accommodation report, contract valid for one year and also offer of job in UK. why he did not consider all this documents and simply refused on origin of funds.

[batleykhan]

I need any advise on the same topic. My spouse have applied for settlement visa but refused on the same grounds. The ECO said that he is not satisfied on the balance of probabilities that the funds will be genuinly available to him and he is not satisfied on the origin of funds. I am mother of 3 children, have diabeties and also had complicated surgery in last August when my younger son was born (six months). Appealed against the decision but the appeal is pending until june 2 and date will be set after that deadline. My question is what requirment ECM need to c as a proof of origin of funds (husband) (I am on benefits) ECO refused under 281 paragraph 1v an v.
I need advise how to proof the origin of funds and can i expediate my appeal on the grounds of diabetes, insulin dependent, three children and complication due to the surgery. My husband did submit the edequate accommodation report, contract valid for one year and also offer of job in UK. why he did not consider all this documents and simply refused on origin of funds.

The ECO is probally right in refusing you as he is not satisfied that you have sufficient funds /accommodation because you are claiming benefits.

The requirement of a visa is that you can show you can maiantain yourself without recourse to public funds. If you cant then they will not give visa.

However as 3rd party support is now allowed and if you and your family can assure the Adjudicator that you have sufficient funds till your husband finds a job and and can support you, then they might just grant your husband a visa.

Your solicitor should advise you further on this, but you need to get your family to back and support you. Discuss it with them first though

[Zaryaab]

I understand your reply. I have consulted the solicitors and they gudied me for no additional recourse to public funds for the applicant. I and my three children are british citizen. I am claiming benefits but now due to my health problems my spouse is applying for settlement visa from pakistan. He gave his bankstatment of saving of £10000. He will support himself and will not go on public funds and also have job offer. My solictors said that i have accommodation that is enough, it does not matter if I am taking housing benefits..the bottom line is that he will not claim benefits. My doctor back up the letter stating that due to three young children I am unable to work. I hope u understand the situation and will advise me accordingly.

[batleykhan]

My advise still is 3rd party support of your application. Whilst your husband may have £10000 but supporting a wife and 3 kids on that money is not going to last long. What happens if your husband is unable to find a job in these difficult times?

These are things you should consider carefully and the choice is yours to make. Good luck whatever you do

[immigrationuk2009]

hI

My advise still is 3rd party support of your application. Whilst your husband may have £10000 but supporting a wife and 3 kids on that money is not going to last long. What happens if your husband is unable to find a job in these difficult times?

These are things you should consider carefully and the choice is yours to make. Good luck whatever you do

@Khan who told you third party support is allowed for maintenance?

I know a recent case law but home office has not modified their guidance yet...So third party support would be a straight forward refusal.

UK_Banned_Member

[asadbaig]

My advise still is 3rd party support of your application. Whilst your husband may have £10000 but supporting a wife and 3 kids on that money is not going to last long. What happens if your husband is unable to find a job in these difficult times?

These are things you should consider carefully and the choice is yours to make. Good luck whatever you do

hi in this case ,the ECO just asking about origin of savings,
The majority of the Rules require applicants to be able to be maintained and accommodated (and any of their dependants) without additional recourse to public funds.
There is no objection to the British citizen/settled sponsor receiving any public funds to which he/she is entitled in his/her own right.
The fact that an applicant may not be eligible to claim public funds is not in itself sufficient to satisfy the requirements of the Rules
If the sponsor is in receipt of public funds, it does not mean that they will be unable to support the applicant, although clearly a person who is heavily dependent on the state because they don't have sufficient means of their own will find it difficult to support another person for any length of time.

The important factor to consider is whether there will be a need for the sponsor to claim additional public funds to support the applicant if leave to enter granted.

Bear in mind that in some exceptional cases an applicant may be able to claim in their own right the public funds listed. This is either as a result of reciprocal arrangements between the UK and their home country, or as a result of the fact that they will be married to / living with a British citizen /EEA national. Where these exceptional circumstances apply, the applicant should not be treated as having recourse to public funds.

Maintenance may be provided by either:


The applicant with their own funds or with funds available to them; or
The sponsor; or
A combination of applicant and sponsor funds

For applicant's and / or sponsor's funds:



Statements covering at least 3 months
Are there regular transactions?
Are the funds immediately available?
Large deposits with no evidence of normal transactions need careful examination.
The extent of the evidence required will depend on the circumstances of the case, with some applicants required to produce more detailed evidence of funds available.

Where there is doubt that the funds will be at the disposal of the applicant, the ECO may ask them for a written undertaking

[batleykhan]

@Khan who told you third party support is allowed for maintenance?

I know a recent case law but home office has not modified their guidance yet...So third party support would be a straight forward refusal.

UK_Banned_Member

There is a link somewhere on the forum if you look closely, where in a recent law case the judges decided that third party support is now allowed for in spouses cases as long as the 3rd party is a close family/relative.

I accept the HO guidance has not been updated and I accept that it will be an automatic refusal, but on appeal it will be allowed as it is a stated case.

The HO by not updating its guidance, is just creating extra work for everybody and unneccesary delay for applicants.

It could be that they dont want to shout about, as the consequences and implications of it would be huge, as most people are still under the impression that the sponsor only is fully and wholly responsible for support of their spouse.

PM Elena and she will post the link to you if you want to read about it

Forget that I have just found it here

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2009/16.html