Will 10 years social welfare affect citizenship application?

[vladic]

I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I think your friends could get a permanent residence certificate.

Thanks for the answer.

Does a social welfare record count against permanent residence? What is the advantage (if any) to citizenship over permanent residence (aside from being able to move around the EU)?

[walrusgumble]

One of the stipulations under the IBC scam was that those issued with leave to remain were not to become a burden on the state. These people can and should be deported.

We are borrowing 100s of million per week. The state is not a cash cow for the leeches of this world. The social welfare system was set up as a safety net for those who find themselves facing hardtimes. Not a fishing net for foreign people who want to live off the Irish taxpayer.

Again I must completely agree with IrishTom, the social welfare system is there for people with genuine problems and who are genuinely struggling to pay bills, buy food. The fact that they are on the social, and have 2 cars, go on holidays etc etc is an absolute disgrace.

Now to move away from the moral talk, this is a forum for advice so I will give you my advice. I think it is almost impossible for your friends to get citizenship, and they will just have to hope for the best in regards to their permission to remain being renewed everytime.

I'm not sure on this, I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I think your friends could get a permanent residence certificate. But citizenship I think is pretty much out of the question!

Yes the person would have a much better chance of getting permanent residency! and then after 8 years apply for residence without condition to time (stamp 5) during that time, get yerselfs sorted out. rent if you have to

[IrishTom]

Yes the person would have a much better chance of getting permanent residency! and then after 8 years apply for residence without condition to time (stamp 5) during that time, get yerselfs sorted out. rent if you have to..............

Which the Irish taxpayer will pick up the tab for. Am I the only one who thinks it is absurd for leeches(thats what they are) to be able to access ten years worth of social welfare benefits without ever contributing? Now they want citizenship and a nice new free gaff?:shock:

Entertain me, why were they claiming asylum?

[vladic]

why were they claiming asylum?

If you are non-EU and arrive at the port without a visa you have no choice. Claim asylum or turn back.

[homingpigeon]

why were they claiming asylum?

If you are non-EU and arrive at the port without a visa you have no choice. Claim asylum or turn back.

Honest people would turn back. I hope they never EVER get citizenship and pray they get caught or someone tips off the relevant authorities. It would be great if they get deported.

[sideshowsue]

why were they claiming asylum?

If you are non-EU and arrive at the port without a visa you have no choice. Claim asylum or turn back.

This is absolutely scandalous. These people have no shame, no self-respect and certainly no decency. 10 years living in the state as spongers and now they're starting to get a bit ansty about their residency status. Obviously they're a bit worried that the free ride will grind to halt, and they'll lose their two cars and their foreign holidays, and worse, they might actually have to pay their way at some point.

It's despicable really. It's precisely cases like these that give Irish Tom the necessary ammunition to spew bile across these boards.

[IrishTom]

It's despicable really. It's precisely cases like these that give Irish Tom the necessary ammunition to spew bile across these boards.

I back up all my points with stats and figures. Bile, indeed.

[Darkhorse]

Whats the dole these days for a couple? 400 euro(guess)?

Lets take the 400 euro figure(per week for a couple)

400 * 52 * 3 = 62,400 euro.

Although I don't have or don't want to spend time to find out the exact figure for this, but this figures is clearly more than me and my wife earn as IT Prof. May be I and my wife just under pay (at least I don't feel so). which is a good thing.

[vladic]

Some parents are split up and don't live together so get rent allowance x 2 and mother gets single parent allowance.

The amount for people in this situation is about 1800 social + 1200 rent allowance + 200 single parent = 3200 per month.

In this case has one partner, eg father of Irish born, ever been deported?

[sideshowsue]

Some parents are split up and don't live together so get rent allowance x 2 and mother gets single parent allowance.

The amount for people in this situation is about 1800 social + 1200 rent allowance + 200 single parent = 3200 per month.

In this case has one partner, eg father of Irish born, ever been deported?

Vladic, have you a got a dog in this fight, so to speak? You seem to be too well acquainted and well versed with the financial affairs of your friends on social welfare to be simply a disinterested observer.

If so, I think it is only fair that you are upfront about the facts. Are the 'friends' you're talking about really you and your (ex) partner? Because right now, you're just supplying information in drips and drabs, and unfortunately, the information you're giving us is really negatively affecting our perception of this particular couple.

Be honest here: Is it you who's worried about deportation since you're no longer living with your partner and child? From what I gather, one of the conditions of the IBC scheme is that the parent(s) of the child must take an active part in the life and upbringing of the child, but if this is the case, how is the mother in receipt of the single-parent allowance? There's something wrong here.

There are a lot of holes in this story, and unfortunately, you don't seem to be forthright in presenting it. The bottom line is that the best way forward for this couple in order for them to ensure that they can remain in Ireland past their child's/children's 18th birthday is to apply for permanent residency/without condition to remain as to time. This is because it is highly unlikely, if not impossible, for the couple involved to be granted naturalisation given the length and breadth of their dependence on social welfare.

So, if I were them, I'd be busy sorting out the necessary paperwork/procedures and to do this ASAP before the INIS revises the scheme or precludes further renewals from those on IBC. And again, this should be done sooner rather than later. All the information for permanent residency can be found here: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Wi ... dorsements

[sideshowsue]

I'll put my cards on the table:

I think you are the male partner in this story. Due to a number of incidents of domestic disturbances/violence, your partner threw you out of the house and is quite possibly denying you visitation rights to the child/children.

You are not employed and are presently in receipt of jobseekers allowance and rent allowance. Your IBC stamp is due to expire shortly, but since your partner is blocking access to the child, you cannot attend the GNIB in the presence of the child. This means, of course, that the GNIB will not renew your permission to remain.

You're now tearing your hair out trying to figure out how to remain in Ireland without being deported once your IBC stamp runs out.

My take (assuming all of the above is true): You should get the boot and rightfully so.

[vladic]

I'll put my cards on the table:

I think you are the male partner in this story. ...

Sorry for the confusion, but no, none of your conclusions are correct. I have an interest in this because these are my good friends.

I realise now that my last post may have confused. It was a generic statement that lots of parents are seperated and are getting a lot more than IrishTom's estimate. While I was on the topic I asked a generic question of one parent being deported.

[9jeirean]

Vladic, have you a got a dog in this fight, so to speak? You seem to be too well acquainted and well versed with the financial affairs of your friends on social welfare to be simply a disinterested observer.

If so, I think it is only fair that you are upfront about the facts. Are the 'friends' you're talking about really you and your (ex) partner? Because right now, you're just supplying information in drips and drabs, and unfortunately, the information you're giving us is really negatively affecting our perception of this particular couple.

SBT_Owner wrote:

I fear this is a troll guys . Well done to those that smelt the troll early on

Thanks sideshowsue & SBT_Owner. I actually never believed the story from the word go. Looks to me like some cook up story to focus attention to some people's agenda at trolling this forum and turning it into an immigrant bashing medium. The manner in which the story keeps evolving and different angles get introduced down the thread tells me we may be on a "troll trip" here.

That said, IMHO, it is utterly unacceptable as well as an insult on any tax paying member of the Irish society that anyone, migrant or otherwise should be allowed to live on the SW support for that long. It underlines the wider issue of the fundamental flaws in the Irish social welfare system. Evidence abounds about wide spread abuse of the SW system in the state a la the recent RTE primetime show. We are still waiting for the much promised overhaul from Mary Hanafin (I do hope she gets booted out in the upcoming reshuffle though).

Same can also be said about the existing immigration/residency/naturalization system which largely penalizes legally working, law abiding, tax paying migrant in favour of the supposed "stateless persons". Without sounding like I am condoning criminality and abuse of the system, the fact remains that people like this will continue to get away with things like this and many more until the government puts their priority right. More efficient and fairer system will go a long way here

[vladic]

I actually never believed the story from the word go. Looks to me like some cook up story to focus attention to some people's agenda at trolling this forum and turning it into an immigrant bashing medium.

So this story is so bad it couldn't be real? It's to motivate people into immigrant bashing? Pffft.

The Social welfare system is being abused daily by natives and guess what, immigrants too.

[9jeirean]

I actually never believed the story from the word go. Looks to me like some cook up story to focus attention to some people's agenda at trolling this forum and turning it into an immigrant bashing medium.

So this story is so bad it couldn't be real? It's to motivate people into immigrant bashing? Pffft.

The Social welfare system is being abused daily by natives and guess what, immigrants too.

Ok we get the moral of your story. Next!

[IrishTom]

The Social welfare system is being abused daily by natives and guess what, immigrants too.

The natives should be made to clean the streets until their bill is cleared and the foreigners should be deported and their assets in Ireland seized. Not given council houses and citizenship.

[Pakhtoon]

The Social welfare system is being abused daily by natives and guess what, immigrants too.

The natives should be made to clean the streets until their bill is cleared and the foreigners should be deported and their assets in Ireland seized. Not given council houses and citizenship.

hehe don't you think thats too harsh ??

[IrishTom]

hehe don't you think thats too harsh ??

We arent talking about a small sum of money. We are talking about theft on a grand scale.

I just found this video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRH1I55B ... re=related

[SBT_Owner]

I watched a bit of the clip , the same is happening here in England , it is not just immigrants abusing it though , brits are abusing it just as badly .You can see why taxs are so high now :p

People that have done it have even posted on this site http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 35&start=0 < They would of stole £1million ? Maybe more ? (even the NHS is being hit http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigation ... d-for.html )

The only answer is to scrap the benefits system , let people get jobs and support themselves (sadly that will never happen )

[Monifé]

The natives should be made to clean the streets until their bill is cleared and the foreigners should be deported and their assets in Ireland seized. Not given council houses and citizenship.

Agree with half of this. Totally believe people on the dole should engage in some sort of community activity so they can give back to the community, unless they are on the PRSI based dole, well then that is their own money.

Other half, assets seized and deported is a bit harsh, but I do agree that they should not be allowed on social welfare for a considerable amount of time, just enough time to get back on their feet or get another job/enrole in a course.

[IrishTom]

Other half, assets seized and deported is a bit harsh, but I do agree that they should not be allowed on social welfare for a considerable amount of time, just enough time to get back on their feet or get another job/enrole in a course.

Its not harsh. If you invited a friend over for a dinner and found them rooting around in your handbag, you would kick them out. It is the exact same thing, if a recent arrival is found to be swindling money from the public purse, they should be deported. A thief is a thief. That money has to come from somewhere, the taxpayer. We have enough scammers with importing more. We are a country, not a charity shop.

[vladic]

Thanks to all the helpful replies. I will tell them to not bother looking for citizenship but to go for permanent residence instead.

Is there any disadvantage to not having citizenship apart from not being free to travel in the EU?

[smalltime]

Thanks to all the helpful replies. I will tell them to not bother looking for citizenship but to go for permanent residence instead.

Is there any disadvantage to not having citizenship apart from not being free to travel in the EU?

vladic also advise them to look for a job will ye!

[walrusgumble]

hehe don't you think thats too harsh ??

We arent talking about a small sum of money. We are talking about theft on a grand scale.

I just found this video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRH1I55B ... re=related

When you figure out what Theft is defined as under Irish Criminal Law come back to us on that, until then, use a more accurate word!

[IrishTom]

hehe don't you think thats too harsh ??

We arent talking about a small sum of money. We are talking about theft on a grand scale.

I just found this video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRH1I55B ... re=related

When you figure out what Theft is defined as under Irish Criminal Law come back to us on that, until then, use a more accurate word!

Theft is the illegal taking of ones property(the Irish states). So yeah, it is theft, tea boy.