Unmarried gay couple problems

[manuelaux]

O.K. Here how it is:

1. Me (male) and my boyfriend are together for 4 years but we don't live together (as we live in Croatia and here it's not common to live bla, bla ...) but we have to proove that we are together, HOW?

2. They expect that we have "suitable accommodation which is owned ...", but how we will have accomodation if we still don't know are we going to get visa?

We both live in Croatia and we have croatian citizenship.

We've been in UK only as tourists.

Thak you for any help

[Wanderer]

What visa are you hoping to get?

[ElenaW]

O.K. Here how it is:

1. Me (male) and my boyfriend are together for 4 years but we don't live together (as we live in Croatia and here it's not common to live bla, bla ...) but we have to proove that we are together, HOW?

2. They expect that we have "suitable accommodation which is owned ...", but how we will have accomodation if we still don't know are we going to get visa?

We both live in Croatia and we have croatian citizenship.

We've been in UK only as tourists.

Thak you for any help

Sorry but for the unmarried partner visa, the living together requirement is one of the most important. You need two years of proof of things being mailed to your shared place of residence. There is no way around this rule. Also, does one of you hold uk citizenship? Or any other EU country's citizenship?

[manuelaux]

Sorry but for the unmarried partner visa, the living together requirement is one of the most important. You need two years of proof of things being mailed to your shared place of residence. There is no way around this rule. Also, does one of you hold uk citizenship? Or any other EU country's citizenship?

For Tier1.

We don't have citizenship of any other country. If I have that wouldn't be the problem.

Are you shure about living together? Because is not common that gay couples living together here.

We want to go tu UK just that we can live together!!

[Wanderer]

Sorry but for the unmarried partner visa, the living together requirement is one of the most important. You need two years of proof of things being mailed to your shared place of residence. There is no way around this rule. Also, does one of you hold uk citizenship? Or any other EU country's citizenship?

For Tier1.

We don't have citizenship of any other country. If I have that wouldn't be the problem.

Are you shure about living together? Because is not common that gay couples living together here.

We want to go tu UK just that we can live together!!

Yes, you need to be living together years provable, UK doesn't care whether it's acceptable in another country or not, UK rules apply.

The only way forward for you is if there is a Croatian Same-Sex Marriage or Civil partnership (which sounds unlikely from what you've posted) and you contract under that. UK would recognise that but I think there is a six-month proof of relationship requirement there.

Looks like a non-starter to me tho....

[manuelaux]

Yes, you need to be living together years provable, UK doesn't care whether it's acceptable in another country or not, UK rules apply.

The only way forward for you is if there is a Croatian Same-gender Marriage or Civil partnership (which sounds unlikely from what you've posted) and you contract under that. UK would recognise that but I think there is a six-month proof of relationship requirement there.

Looks like a non-starter to me tho....

Can you give me exact paragraph where that is written in UK imigration law.

Because, only I can found is: "...they must live as married couple, or ... bla...bla" I cannot find that they sey: live together in the same place ...

Thank you!

[Wanderer]

Yes, you need to be living together years provable, UK doesn't care whether it's acceptable in another country or not, UK rules apply.

The only way forward for you is if there is a Croatian Same-gender Marriage or Civil partnership (which sounds unlikely from what you've posted) and you contract under that. UK would recognise that but I think there is a six-month proof of relationship requirement there.

Looks like a non-starter to me tho....

Can you give me exact paragraph where that is written in UK imigration law.

Because, only I can found is: "...they must live as married couple, or ... bla...bla" I cannot find that they sey: live together in the same place ...

Thank you!

Requirements for leave to enter or remain as the unmarried or same-sex partner of a person with limited leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom under paragraphs 128-193; 200-239; or 263-270
295J. The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter or remain as the unmarried partner of a person with limited leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom under paragraphs 128-193; 200-239; or 263-270; are that:
(i) the applicant is the unmarried or same-sex partner of a person who has limited leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom under paragraphs 128-193; 200-239; or 263-270; and
(ii) any previous marriage or civil partnership (or similar relationship) by either partner has permanently broken down; and
(iii) the parties are not involved in a consanguineous relationship with one another; and
(iv) the parties have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage or civil partnership which has subsisted for 2 years or more; and
(v) each of the parties intends to live with the other as his partner during the applicant's stay; and
(vi) there will be adequate accommodation for the parties and any dependants without recourse to public funds in accommodation which they own or occupy exclusively; and
(vii) the parties will be able to maintain themselves and any dependants adequately without recourse to public funds; and
(viii) the applicant does not intend to stay in the United Kingdom beyond any period of leave granted to his partner; and
(ix) if seeking leave to enter, the applicant holds a valid United Kingdom entry clearance for entry in this capacity or, if seeking leave to remain, was admitted with a valid United Kingdom entry clearance for entry in this capacity.

[Casa]

Be in a relationship 'akin to marriage'...part of which would mean living together at the same address.

[manuelaux]

(iv) the parties have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage or civil partnership which has subsisted for 2 years or more;

As I see they live together in a relationship not in a same place.

My mother and father are married and they dont live together because my father work in another city and thay see every two weekends. So? They are married, they live together in marriage but they don't live together phisically in the same place. And they love eachother and they are together for the last 30 years.

So where is written that married couples have to live in the same appartment? I don't see that in what you have written up here.

[Casa]

You may disagree, but you won't convince the UKBA and the ECO otherwise. Unmarried same gender visas are among the most difficult to get approval...even if you're living together.

[manuelaux]

You may disagree, but you won't convince the UKBA and the ECO otherwise. Unmarried same gender visas are among the most difficult to get approval...even if you're living together.

Then I have one word for that: DISCRIMINATION!

[oluwa112]

(iv) the parties have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage or civil partnership which has subsisted for 2 years or more;

As I see they live together in a relationship not in a same place.

My mother and father are married and they dont live together because my father work in another city and thay see every two weekends. So? They are married, they live together in marriage but they don't live together phisically in the same place. And they love eachother and they are together for the last 30 years.

So where is written that married couples have to live in the same appartment? I don't see that in what you have written up here.

Why dont you go ahead and apply???

It clearly states in the most Basic English, not sure how much simpler you want them to put it: living together in a relationship akin to marriage or civil partnership which has subsisted for 2 years or more. Now they have given flexibility with regards to the sort of relationship that you may have. But You must show evidence that you live together.

You talk about your parents, I can guess that even though your father is away because of work in another city... The House your mother lives in is in Both their Names and he might rent a place in the city where he works. Also The Fact that he would provide the evidence that the only reason he lives away from his wife is for work and he will be able to show evidence that he goes back home or she comes out to the city to be with him.

Then they have this Massive advantage over you called a Marriage certificate for over 30 years.

If you have Money to waste, go apply and see what happens.

If you

[Casa]

Discrimination - not at all....which is why you want to live in the UK and not Croatia. Opposite gender unmarried relationships come under the same scrutiny. It has to be proved that it isn't simply a 'boyfriend and girlfriend' relationship, but they have the same joint commitments that you would expect to find in a marriage...joint bank account/mortgage or rent agreement/joint credit agreements etc....and living together for a minimum of 2 years with documented proof of that.

[Wanderer]

You may disagree, but you won't convince the UKBA and the ECO otherwise. Unmarried same gender visas are among the most difficult to get approval...even if you're living together.

Then I have one word for that: DISCRIMINATION!

Rubbish.

Given your criteria your partner could be anyone off the street you fancy bringing here, you need to show some provable cohabitation.

What the UK HO wants to see is some level of commitment, as there is no marriage certificate to show that, your are required to prove it. If you truly were committed to each other wouldn't you live together in Croatia despite the stigma?

If there is any discrimination it's in the culture in Croatia, not the UK Home Office which allows visas for same-sex couples and doesn't discriminate against them.

[oluwa112]

You may disagree, but you won't convince the UKBA and the ECO otherwise. Unmarried same gender visas are among the most difficult to get approval...even if you're living together.

Then I have one word for that: DISCRIMINATION!

Its Not discrimination if you are not able to prove that you meet the requirements, before you apply.

You dont live together... Even for Non-Same sex relationships. If you don't live together and you are not married it will be hard to get the couples Visa. This is why they require that you at least should live together to make it easier to prove the credibility of your relationship.

If you feel DISCRIMINATED about that then go talk to the Government of Croatia for not allowing Gay couples to live freely and be together and have a civil partnership.

[Wanderer]

Recognition of same-sex unions in Croatia

There has been legal recognition of same-sex couples, which allows for unregistered cohabitation, since 2003. The law on same-sex civil unions grants same-sex partners of at least 3 years the same rights as enjoyed by unmarried cohabiting opposite sex partners (inheritance, financial support).

Sounds like OP is on a sticky wicket.....

[manuelaux]

Oh my God!

There is realy angry paople here. You shouldn't get angy on me or on word discrimination.

Talks like this I hear all the time and I'm alredy used to stuff like this.

Straight people always want to proove you that there is no discrimination and yady yady yada ...

But If someone says that is much hurder to get same sex unmarried visa then "normal" mariage visa then I say it is discrimination.

I'm sorry that it is still like that in the world, but it is, and I alredy learned how live with that. Every time when I have to do something harder because I'm gay it is discrimination. But I dont get angry. Who cares about the world.

I just want to go to live with my boyfriend in London for few years then go someplace else. I dont want to spend my life in one place.

But that's doesen't matter.

I realy put my post in a good will on this Forum expecting someone to help. If you cannot help you dont need to read my post or reply. Just click on ignore.

I would appreciate more if you have some good advice how to proove relationship that we have for the last 4 years. If you don't have advice I would appriciate that straight people do not teach me what discrimination is.

Our relationship is real so we don't lie, we just don't know legal ways to proove it.

Also I'm sorry that UK cosider marriaes in so old traditional way, but that's UK I can choose to go there or not to go. But I've expected more ...

Again, thank you for your advices. Also thanks to all who tried to explain me what discrimination is. Explaining that word to a gay persone is like baby explains science to Einstein.

[MPH80]

Hang on - haven't we all missed the important bit here - neither of you has British Citizenship ...

That makes you both ineligible for the unmarried partner visa as one person has to be present and settled in the UK or hold BC! Otherwise every single couple in the world could move here.

As far as I can see - one of you will need to qualify for another visa first (e.g. tier 1), then the second one can be added as a dependant.

M.

[manuelaux]

Hang on - haven't we all missed the important bit here - neither of you has British Citizenship ...

That makes you both ineligible for the unmarried partner visa as one person has to be present and settled in the UK or hold BC! Otherwise every single couple in the world could move here.

As far as I can see - one of you will need to qualify for another visa first (e.g. tier 1), then the second one can be added as a dependant.

M.

Yes. I will apply for Tier1 visa and I'm sure that I will get one because I satisfied all requirements. Then I'd like that my partner join me in UK.

But as I see we can apply at the same time.

So, as I hope i'll get my wisa, the problem remains with dependant visa for my partner ...

[MPH80]

Ok - alternative approach for you then.

Apply for the tier 1 ... get over here - apply for him to come over on a fiancee/civil partnership settlement visa and have your civil partnership ceremony over here.

Then you can convert to the spouse/same sex partner visa.

That'll remove all the requirements of proving you live together - you simply have to prove you intend to marry and that you have a relationship (which you can prove right?)

The extra visas will set you back over £1000 short term - but it seems the easiest way to be together in the UK.

M.

[manuelaux]

Ok - alternative approach for you then.

....

M.

Thank you!

I think it's much easyer to go now in UK, do CP ceremony, get documents, ant then apply for tier1 and dependant visa.

What do you think about that?

Thanl you again!

[MPH80]

If you come to the UK intending to get married - you still need to apply for a marriage visitor visa.

Of course - you could arrive without a visa at all and then try to apply for a certificate of approval (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visit ... fapproval/) - but if you check the other forums you'll find there are people who are waiting months to get one through - all the time you're going to have to be supporting each other because you can't work here.

Once married you then have to return to Croatia, apply for the tier 1 with your partner as a depdendant.

If you turn that around and get the tier 1 first, you can come over, find a job, then apply for the civil partnership visa, and while your partner is here (and not working - it's not allowed until you've got the spouse visa) you can support him with your income.

So I think my original suggestion is much easier in terms of finance - but it means being separated while you sort the visas out.

M.

[manuelaux]

If you come to the UK intending to get married - you still need to apply for a marriage visitor visa.

Of course - you could arrive without a visa at all and then try to apply for a certificate of approval (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visit ... fapproval/) - but if you check the other forums you'll find there are people who are waiting months to get one through - all the time you're going to have to be supporting each other because you can't work here.

Once married you then have to return to Croatia, apply for the tier 1 with your partner as a depdendant.

If you turn that around and get the tier 1 first, you can come over, find a job, then apply for the civil partnership visa, and while your partner is here (and not working - it's not allowed until you've got the spouse visa) you can support him with your income.

So I think my original suggestion is much easier in terms of finance - but it means being separated while you sort the visas out.

M.

That's a good idea.

So:

1. I get my visa under Tier1
2. When I get my visa I go to UK, find a job, place to live...
3. Then he applies for mariage visa (do I also need to apply for that visa to?)
4. Then we do the CP ceremony
5. Then he apply for dependant visa
6. And when all is over we can live normaly, work, etc.

But when I come to UK he can came with me like general visitor. Croatian citizens do not need visa for visit under 6 months. Of cours untill whole process is over he will not work but we can be together? I wouldn't like to be separated for months...

[MPH80]

1. I get my visa under Tier1
2. When I get my visa I go to UK, find a job, place to live...
3. Then he applies for mariage visa (do I also need to apply for that visa to?)

Quite a lot of details are required about you - e.g. work, where you live etc. But you don't have to be at the application.

4. Then we do the CP ceremony
5. Then he apply for dependant visa

It's sort of a dependant visa - but it's actually done on FLR(M) (further leave to remain) - it extends the initial visa for 2 year.s

6. And when all is over we can live normaly, work, etc.

Yes.

But when I come to UK he can came with me like general visitor. Croatian citizens do not need visa for visit under 6 months. Of cours untill whole process is over he will not work but we can be together? I wouldn't like to be separated for months...

He can come when you first arrive on tier 1 - although I'd ensure he has a return ticket and good reasons to return (e.g. work) or it's going to be suspicious for the ECO.

It's also worth noting that the application for the fiancee/civil partnership visa has to be done from the place you are normally reisdent - so in his case - Croatia. He will have to travel back for that.

No doubt someone might have an easier route than this as it does seem complicated.

Final thought - is it possible you could travel somewhere else where gay marriage is legal (and you don't have to get approval from the goverment), marry there, return to croatia and simply make him your dependant on the tier 1 application?

M.

[manuelaux]

Final thought - is it possible you could travel somewhere else where gay marriage is legal (and you don't have to get approval from the goverment), marry there, return to croatia and simply make him your dependant on the tier 1 application?

M.

I'm litle bit lost.

Does that mean that for example we go tomorrow to Slovenia (EU mebmber state) - it's just 1 hor drive from out town - get civil partnership there (it's legal in Slovenia) ...

* Then I apply under Tier1 and he apply as my dependant

/OR/

* you ment that we to that somewhere else after I get Tier1 visa and move to UK?