After Naturalisation

[buntosanya]

Dear Moderators

How long is one allowed to stay outside UK after naturalisation.

Is it possible to move back to one's Country and come in occassionaly to work and go back home at will.

Thanks as you answer my query.

[lemess]

There is no limit of any sort.

That said, it is theoretically possible to contradict the declaration you make on your naturalisation form stating that you intend to make the UK your principal home. In theory a result of having made that false declaration can lead to the revocation of your british citizenship. In practice, this is likely to be unenforceable. So bottom line - as a British citizen there is no limit to the time you can spend outside the UK but be careful of keeping at least a base here which can be useful if legislation around intentions at the time of naturalisation ever becomes stronger.

[MWazir]

You would have the all the rights of a british citizen including the right to choose where you want to live in or out of the UK. I dont think there is any specified length of time within which a citizen must return back to his country. It is normally expected of you to make the UK your home - but there is nothing that stops you to immigrate back to your country of origin while retaining a British passport.

[JAJ]

There is no limit of any sort.

That said, it is theoretically possible to contradict the declaration you make on your naturalisation form stating that you intend to make the UK your principal home. In theory a result of having made that false declaration can lead to the revocation of your british citizenship. .

Two points:

1. Those applying for naturalisation as the spouse of a British citizen do not have to make any such declaration (nor do those applying for registration as a British citizen under s4 of the 1981 Act).

2. It is perfectly legitimate for intentions to change any time after naturalisation. There is no requirement that a naturalisation applicant promise to spend the rest of his life in the United Kingdom.

The Home Office have not got the slightest interest in following up on the movements of naturalised British citizens. Over the years there must be tens of thousands of naturalised British citizens who have gone abroad for a short or long period, and they have not had any problems renewing their British passports or getting British citizenship for overseas born children.

I have never heard of any cases of a naturalised Briton being stripped of citizenship for moving outside the UK.

[lemess]

There is no limit of any sort.

That said, it is theoretically possible to contradict the declaration you make on your naturalisation form stating that you intend to make the UK your principal home. In theory a result of having made that false declaration can lead to the revocation of your british citizenship. .

Two points:

1. Those applying for naturalisation as the spouse of a British citizen do not have to make any such declaration (nor do those applying for registration as a British citizen under s4 of the 1981 Act).

2. It is perfectly legitimate for intentions to change any time after naturalisation. There is no requirement that a naturalisation applicant promise to spend the rest of his life in the United Kingdom.

The Home Office have not got the slightest interest in following up on the movements of naturalised British citizens. Over the years there must be tens of thousands of naturalised British citizens who have gone abroad for a short or long period, and they have not had any problems renewing their British passports or getting British citizenship for overseas born children.

I have never heard of any cases of a naturalised Briton being stripped of citizenship for moving outside the UK.

I agree. That's why I said it's uneforceable but theoretically the rule exists. In its current form there is no way anyone can prove something as vaguely defined as 'intention'. However I think it is sensible to plan for developments where judgements about this are aided by thumb rules ( as they are for things like the length of time someone spends in the UK on a visitor visa in a 12 month period etc). I know this is not a priority for the government at the moment but who knows what the political climate re: immigrants may be in 10 years time and like with an ILR I think it makes sense to keep some demonstrable ties to the UK ( other than just the passport !). Just my two pennies .

[Khurram]

and they have not had any problems renewing their British passports or getting British citizenship for overseas born children.

Just wanted to ask a simple question. Do the children born overseas to naturalised British Citizens have a right to claim their British Citizenship through their father or mother? Just a bit of clarification, both the parents are/will be naturalised British Citizens.

Thanks and Regards.

[ppron747]

and they have not had any problems renewing their British passports or getting British citizenship for overseas born children.

Just wanted to ask a simple question. Do the children born overseas to naturalised British Citizens have a right to claim their British Citizenship through their father or mother? Just a bit of clarification, both the parents are/will be naturalised British Citizens.

Thanks and Regards.

Yes. People naturalised in UK are British citizens otherwise than by descent, and their children born outside UK will be British citizens by descent.

[Khurram]

Thanks Paul, much appreciated. Though probably I guess I wasn't so clear in my question earlier, so here is it again :

Do the children born overseas to naturalised British Citizen(s) have a right to claim their British Citizenship through their
1- father, or
2- mother?

Regards

[John]

Both! Indeed just one of the parents being a BC "otherwise than by decent" is sufficient.

[Dawie]

Remember too that if you renounce your home country's citizenship, or if it is automatically taken away from you (as in the case of India), your British citizenship cannot be taken away from you as this would make you stateless.

[olisun]

but the children's children will not have the automatic right for BC

[basis]

This seems to be an important question on everyone's mind. As there are somewhat clear rules for ILR (no more than 2 years away from the UK) - there is no such thing after naturalisation.

I know it is not right to do so but I have seen many people end up taking naturalisation when they finally want to / have to move away from the UK to retain the door open to come back to the UK for work. Now it is like pandora's box and if the UK govt decides to run after all these people after 10 / 15 years it will be chaotic situation. I dont think that someone after 10 years can suddenly review the old cases. They may come up with a rule / law for the new naturalisation cases but not the old ones IMHO.

At present after reading the views of all the esteemed members and reading the reference on the web - it would be correct to say that there is no restriction on moving to native country or elsewhere after naturalisation. And people from countries where dual citizenship is not allowed are even safer.

[ppron747]

I think you've summed it up very well, basis - I think we both have our own views on whether it is right that someone should be claiming to intend to continue to live in UK, while making plans to do the exact opposite. But the fact is that people can do that if they wish, with no adverse consequences.

[buntosanya]

Thank you all for the Contributions.

Another question is, if the parents have gotten their citizenship and the Children (under 16) are not in UK, do they have to come to UK to reside before they can get their Citizenship or is it automatic even while they are outside UK.

If they have to come over to UK, how long will they have to stay before they can naturalise.

Thanks

[JAJ]

Thank you all for the Contributions.

Another question is, if the parents have gotten their citizenship and the Children (under 16) are not in UK, do they have to come to UK to reside before they can get their Citizenship or is it automatic even while they are outside UK.

If they have to come over to UK, how long will they have to stay before they can naturalise.

Nothing is automatic. An application for the child's citizenship must be made and things get much more complex once the child turns 18.

Children are normally expected to be living in the UK with parents (not unreasonably, either) and their future should lie in the UK.

How long the child needs to be resident in the UK depends on the child's age (under 13, 13-15 or 16+), however this is a matter of policy rather than law.

[John]

JAJ, I agree with all that. I think we also need, in the context of children, distinguishing between Registration and Naturalisation as British. I say that because buntosanya asks "how long will they have to stay before they can naturalise".

I think the strict answer to that specific question is that they must be at least 18 years old when they apply and they need to have lived in the UK for at least five years, or at least three years if they are then married to a British Citizen (or in Civil Partnership with a British Citizen!).

But what about Registration as British? If the parent has been naturalised as British then their child can be considered for Registration. If when registration is applied for the child is still under 13 years of age then no particular minimum length of time in the UK is needed. If between 13 and 17 years of age then a minimum of two years will be needed.

Which means that if they are 16 or 17 when the child comes to the UK then it will not be possible for the child to be registered as British, because they can't possibly complete their two years in the UK prior to their 18th birthday. Instead they would need to apply for naturalisation when they are eligible.

Differences between Registration and Naturalisation? Once granted, effectively none. However, at the application stage there are differences. For example only applicants for Naturalisation need to pass the Citizenship Test (or complete an ESOL/Citizenship course) ... applicants for Registration do not! That fact will no doubt be a great relief to the parents of some three year old just about to be Registered as British! Can you picture it? The poor child, not yet able to read and write, having to study for the Citizenship Test! Well no actually!

[JAJ]

JAJ, I agree with all that. I think we also need, in the context of children, distinguishing between Registration and Naturalisation as British. I say that because buntosanya asks "how long will they have to stay before they can naturalise".

Registration is effectively a simplified form of naturalisation.

Differences between Registration and Naturalisation? Once granted, effectively none.

In some cases persons registered as British are British citizens 'by descent'. Notably this includes those registered under sections 3(2), 4B, 4C and 5 of the 1981 Act.

While those registered as British under sections 1(3), 1(4), 3(5), 4 and 4A are British citizens 'otherwise than by descent'.

And those registered under s3(1) are British 'by descent' if they had a mother or father who was British when they were born - otherwise they are British 'otherwise than by descent'.

Naturalised British citizens are always British 'otherwise than by descent'.

However, at the application stage there are differences. For example only applicants for Naturalisation need to pass the Citizenship Test (or complete an ESOL/Citizenship course) ... applicants for Registration do not! That fact will no doubt be a great relief to the parents of some three year old just about to be Registered as British! Can you picture it? The poor child, not yet able to read and write, having to study for the Citizenship Test! Well no actually!

Other differences:

- registration is usually quicker than naturalisation (unless it's linked to a naturalisation application).
- where the person is aged less than 18 at date of decision, a citizenship ceremony is not required

[tt]

If at least one of the parents has "settled" status (ILR), and the child is born in the UK, then it's right to say that the child is a British citizen by birth?

But if the parent with ILR cannot themselves get British citizenship (because the UK residence requirements cannot be satisfied - they haven't spent the required amount of time in the UK since getting their ILR - eg spent the last 3 years in India/Germany/wherever, though still returning to the UK sufficiently to retain the ILR) ..... then, is there another way the parent can get British citizenship now that their child is a British citizen?

What if the other parent is not a British citizen either, nor has "settled" status (ILR)? Can that parent get at least "settled" status, if not British citizenship, since their child is now a British citizen?

[lemess]

JAJ, I agree with all that. I think we also need, in the context of children, distinguishing between Registration and Naturalisation as British. I say that because buntosanya asks "how long will they have to stay before they can naturalise".

Registration is effectively a simplified form of naturalisation.

Differences between Registration and Naturalisation? Once granted, effectively none.

In some cases persons registered as British are British citizens 'by descent'. Notably this includes those registered under sections 3(2), 4B, 4C and 5 of the 1981 Act.

While those registered as British under sections 1(3), 1(4), 3(5), 4 and 4A are British citizens 'otherwise than by descent'.

And those registered under s3(1) are British 'by descent' if they had a mother or father who was British when they were born - otherwise they are British 'otherwise than by descent'.

Naturalised British citizens are always British 'otherwise than by descent'.

However, at the application stage there are differences. For example only applicants for Naturalisation need to pass the Citizenship Test (or complete an ESOL/Citizenship course) ... applicants for Registration do not! That fact will no doubt be a great relief to the parents of some three year old just about to be Registered as British! Can you picture it? The poor child, not yet able to read and write, having to study for the Citizenship Test! Well no actually!

Other differences:

- registration is usually quicker than naturalisation (unless it's linked to a naturalisation application).
- where the person is aged less than 18 at date of decision, a citizenship ceremony is not required

Another difference - naturalisation is at the discretion of the home secretary but registration cannot be refused if some one qualifies.

[ppron747]

Actually, some registrations are entitlements, while others are discretionary. I won't spoil JAJ's fun by listing them in columns

[tt]

Re my query above:-

My guess is that the parent with the "settled" status (ILR) will get British citizenship only if:-
1. they fulfil the residence requirements for citizenship (5 years continuous) - in this case, the having of the (British) child is irrelevant; or
2. somehow, through the (British) child, the parent can gain some special family member dispense re amount of residency time (so < 5years needed for citizenship).

My guess is that the parent without "settled" status (ILR) will get British citizenship only if:-
1. they get "settled" status throught their spouse either immediately (if married > 4 years) [and residence in the UK would be irrelevant?], or after 2 years residence in the UK - in this case, the having of the (British) child is irrelevant; or
2. somehow, through the (British) child, the parent can get "settled" status and/or gain some special family member dispense re amount of residency time once they have "settled" status (so < 5years needed for citizenship).

But on balance, it's looking as if the fact they have a British citizen child is going to be completely irrelevant?

[buntosanya]

Thank you all for the explanations and clarifications.

[ppron747]

Re my query above:-

My guess is that the parent with the "settled" status (ILR) will get British citizenship only if:-
1. they fulfil the residence requirements for citizenship (5 years continuous) - in this case, the having of the (British) child is irrelevant; or
2. somehow, through the (British) child, the parent can gain some special family member dispense re amount of residency time (so < 5years needed for citizenship).

My guess is that the parent without "settled" status (ILR) will get British citizenship only if:-
1. they get "settled" status throught their spouse either immediately (if married > 4 years) [and residence in the UK would be irrelevant?], or after 2 years residence in the UK - in this case, the having of the (British) child is irrelevant; or
2. somehow, through the (British) child, the parent can get "settled" status and/or gain some special family member dispense re amount of residency time once they have "settled" status (so < 5years needed for citizenship).

But on balance, it's looking as if the fact they have a British citizen child is going to be completely irrelevant?

Naturalisation as a British citizen requires five years UK residence, or. three years if married to a British citizen, and the status of any children makes no difference to this.

The answer to the final question is "yes" - except of course to the child...

[John]

three years if married to a British citizen

Or indeed in Civil Partnership with a British Citizen!

Paul, I think it will take a little while to get used to this new possibility!

[JAJ]

Another difference - naturalisation is at the discretion of the home secretary but registration cannot be refused if some one qualifies.

As Paul says, some registrations are entitlements, others are discretionary (s3(1) is the main discretionary provision).

Although naturalisation is discretionary, in practice it is not refused if the requirements are met. It does not depend on the whim of the particular civil servant dealing with your case.