How is the Market for Six Sigma/PMP Certified Professionals?

[npanglia]

Hi
I am planning to come to UK in May this year from India.

Does anybody know on how the market is for those certified in Six Sigma Black Belt / PMP (Project Management)?

I have total 4 years of exp. with 2 yrs of exp in London.

I know this is not the right forum, however some help will be highly appreciated.

[T1_Mainframe]

You can check on job sites e.g. jobserve.com or monster.co.uk

Do check if jobs advertised for Project Managers give sufficient weightage to certifications in project managements. I believe their primary requirement/expectation is experience in sought area.

Cheers!

[npanglia]

You can check on job sites e.g. jobserve.com or monster.co.uk

Do check if jobs advertised for Project Managers give sufficient weightage to certifications in project managements. I believe their primary requirement/expectation is experience in sought area.

Cheers!

I am not sure about the authenticity of the jobs posted within the portal.. Probably someone from the field could help me in answering that.

My focus area of interest is "Lean Six Sigma Black Belt" Consulting.

Please advice

[npanglia]

Seems like very few people in this field and forum is mainly dominated by IT / Technical professionals.

Some experience within the organization you are working could also set some guidance.

Please help!

[Wanderer]

Lean Six Sigma Black Belt?

Sound like American-Management-Speak bollocks to me. Never heard of it and I bet jobserve comes up with zero hits.

[Markie]

if you don't believe the jobs posted on portals...then where will search for jobs?

You can check on job sites e.g. jobserve.com or monster.co.uk

Do check if jobs advertised for Project Managers give sufficient weightage to certifications in project managements. I believe their primary requirement/expectation is experience in sought area.

Cheers!

I am not sure about the authenticity of the jobs posted within the portal.. Probably someone from the field could help me in answering that.

My focus area of interest is "Lean Six Sigma Black Belt" Consulting.

Please advice

[pansi]

I think in UK Prince-2 is required instead of PMP. You might be needing good project management experience along with the certification to get the job of a PM.

[npanglia]

I think in UK Prince-2 is required instead of PMP. You might be needing good project management experience along with the certification to get the job of a PM.

I do agree that experience plays a key role in any kind of profile. However Whats your take on 4+ years of experience with respect to market where it is more in Process improvements related to Lean and Six Sigma?

[kenfrapin]

Many out here do a lot a certifications to better their career prospects. That being said, PMs or even Associate PMs have much more than 4 yrs exp to even get a role managing projects.
I can only provide info in the Telecom and probably a few product management domains in the IT sector but that should throw some light. Contracting PMs either have 6 yrs plus exclusively in PM and given the market now, even they find it difficult. Permanent employees get into assisting PMs on small projects and in time have a shot at getting into full fledged PM. Again, 4 yrs will not help you secure any such role in the UK.

PMP is recognized and so is Prince 2. But niche skills in managing projects, tough market conditions, many jobless local and migrant PMs and the sector you are looking out for determine your chances. In general, PM roles are not very easy to come by these days as there is stiif competition for the big roles. There is no junior PM roles usually open for lateral hiring as this is managed by pushing internal employees.
I have no idea about Six Sigma so no help there

Cheers
KP

[npanglia]

Many out here do a lot a certifications to better their career prospects. That being said, PMs or even Associate PMs have much more than 4 yrs exp to even get a role managing projects.
I can only provide info in the Telecom and probably a few product management domains in the IT sector but that should throw some light. Contracting PMs either have 6 yrs plus exclusively in PM and given the market now, even they find it difficult. Permanent employees get into assisting PMs on small projects and in time have a shot at getting into full fledged PM. Again, 4 yrs will not help you secure any such role in the UK.

PMP is recognized and so is Prince 2. But niche skills in managing projects, tough market conditions, many jobless local and migrant PMs and the sector you are looking out for determine your chances. In general, PM roles are not very easy to come by these days as there is stiif competition for the big roles. There is no junior PM roles usually open for lateral hiring as this is managed by pushing internal employees.
I have no idea about Six Sigma so no help there

Cheers
KP

Thanks a lot for the insights. It really is helpful.

However in my case, my expertise lies in Six Sigma (process improvement/change management) and I am Black belt certified with international certification. (ASQ)
PMP, which currently I am pursuing is more like a secondary skill to me and the reason why I am doing is to groom my CV for job openings in UK.

Yes, the market conditions are tough. But was looking for more insights from someone having knowledge of job opening within Six SIgma.

But still Appreciate your help in this regard!

[kenfrapin]

You dint specify process and change management - I do a lot of work in this area but limited to high level Business Process Analysis and again limited to the IT Telco domain

I did interview a few process change/improvement candidates and they are far and few out here. The key aspect is these guys are usually contractors taking up projects within Ops and Business to setup or align key changes. As this is strategic in nature, it implies openings are not very many and those that are truly skilled are in good demand. Once again, 4 yrs is less and thats my personal opinion. Our company did not look for anyone less than 6 yrs exp and our clients wanted core process improvement exp of atleast 4 yrs.
Also, such profiles do a lot of 'filler' roles as in - they can take up roles in Ops, Business Analysis, Systems Analysis if no other work is around. This is the impression I got from their profiles. Long term roles in this area of expertise may be there but few and far in between

This I am sure helps you get a more clearer picture. I have no opinion of the situation across other domains but it should be pretty much the same. We interviewd guys who did process improvement projects across the Healthcare industry as well.

All the best
KP

[npanglia]

Thanks for the information which is really valuable.
I am aware that this a niche area and certainly you won't find handful of jobs as well as right talent.

However as far my experience & Education - Computer Engineer + MBA in International Business from India.
4 Years of experience as consultant in Process Excellence team.
Also worked on consulting assignment in London for 1.5 yrs with one of the leading investment bank. Hence most of my exposure is within financial services.
I am also Six SIgma black belt certified from American Society for Quality. (This really is a valuable certification)

Wanted to realize, how effective it will be to find a job in UK when I am seeking such roles. Just wanted to be confident before playing my cards of leaving my current job in India and come to UK.

[ilrseeker]

npanglia,
With an MBA + Six Sigma + PMP, I would say you are better off in India th
an UK.

Here large businesses are less and its really tough to get management roles despite of your qualification and experience.

Local Brit guys are preferred in most of the mgmt jobs irrespective of sector/domain - is the fact.

If you wish to realize you talent, India is 'The' place.

[npanglia]

npanglia,
With an MBA + Six Sigma + PMP, I would say you are better off in India th
an UK.

Here large businesses are less and its really tough to get management roles despite of your qualification and experience.

Local Brit guys are preferred in most of the mgmt jobs irrespective of sector/domain - is the fact.

If you wish to realize you talent, India is 'The' place.

I won't completely agree to that. The reason they prefer Brits is that they understand the work culture by default. However while I was in UK, there were people from different nationalities who were holding high ranks within the organization. In short term - Local guys can be prefered, however in the long run "survival of the fittest" exist - which means it is all performance oriented.

[ilrseeker]

I have worked with big names in UK. Believe me 95% of middle and top management positions are held by locals.

There are 5% which you can see divided amongst european, chinese,carrebeans and some by Indians of which again 90% are people from Indian companies who are executing managed projects in UK which has an onsite-offshore model.

The team lead positions are also very difficult to get because even though you maybe technically the best, your communication skills can never be at par with theirs.

The fact though bitter remains the same that there are very few management roles out there in the market , out of which you have to be amongst that 5% .

[npanglia]

I have worked with big names in UK. Believe me 95% of middle and top management positions are held by locals.

There are 5% which you can see divided amongst european, chinese,carrebeans and some by Indians of which again 90% are people from Indian companies who are executing managed projects in UK which has an onsite-offshore model.

The team lead positions are also very difficult to get because even though you maybe technically the best, your communication skills can never be at par with theirs.

The fact though bitter remains the same that there are very few management roles out there in the market , out of which you have to be amongst that 5% .

I do agree that the major proportion of top management positions are with local guys. But it doesn't mean talented people are ruled out. It might not happen overnight but yes, it can happen over a period of time

But anyways thanks for highlighting this out. Atleast it will set the expectations of the new immigrants looking to work in UK.

[kenfrapin]

But it doesn't mean talented people are ruled out

Unfortunately it does - The basis behind this is simple - irrespective of one's nationality, middle and top management posts are only given to locals or those with relevant management skills.
If you do a revelant Masters Degree in the UK or have been living/working in a company for a long time, you have a shot at a management role. But, in general, management roles are not there for highly skilled Tier 1 immigrants.
Management is not classified as highly skilled and hence the possibility of coming here on a Tier 1 and moving into management is literally non-existant. My answer here is very specific to OP's question. You have stated management is open to anyone overtime and I agree but for the OP this is not an option at all.
In most cases, people working for a while in the UK tend to move into management if they want to and if they have an option to based on their career path.

Regards
KP

[ilrseeker]

middle and top management posts are only given to locals or those with relevant management skills.

npanglia ...have u got relevant mgmt skills alongwith MBA+SixSigma+PMP?

[npanglia]

middle and top management posts are only given to locals or those with relevant management skills.

npanglia ...have u got relevant mgmt skills alongwith MBA+SixSigma+PMP?

As per my understanding, I have been handling few centers of my company for driving improvement projects on the board.
Worked on consulting assignments as well abroad on process re-engineering and excellence.

Let me know,How do you define RELEVANT experience in this context?

[gotcha]

To be honest, best approach is float your CV in market, and see what kind of response you get.

As per my understanding, I have been handling few centers of my company for driving improvement projects on the board.
Worked on consulting assignments as well abroad on process re-engineering and excellence.

Let me know,How do you define RELEVANT experience in this context?

You sound very manager to me. But, it doesn't work the way it work in India.

I think you need to be patient, to achieve what you want to achieve.

[ilrseeker]

Let me know,How do you define RELEVANT experience in this context?

Kenfrapin .......pls answer

npanglia....'relevant' word was used by kenfrapin,
[/quote]

[kenfrapin]

Relevent experience - This should be easy to understand. If not, let me explain in real simple terms

Say you are a process improvement expert trying for a job with inclination towards management. So what are the obvious initial questions
1. What process improvements have you carried out. In what environment? In which domain?
2. Have you carried out any such work relevant to our domain? In the UK? Do you understand and have experience of managing such improvements within the local market, working with local contractors/suppliers/vendors to our technology?
3. Managing key process improvement projects are critical to a company. They tend to be very picky on who they hire to do such roles. So obvious questions are again on specific roles played within the local market, proven track record of successful Lean process improvements etc
4. When it comes to project management, then it is completely specific to the employer. Everyone wants someone local to the market and with atleast 4 to 5 years implementing critical, key and successful projects in the local market and a speicific domain such as healthcare, telecom, retail, real estate etc

Above all - remember that when they take on a contractor, the bar is set even higher than the rest. A permanent PM or Process Improvement person may be paid between £30k to £40k whereas a contractor for such roles are paid in excess of £400 a day. Hence you have to have a lot more RELEVANT and sufficient experience to justify why they must hire you!

Having only 4 yrs exp, some really outstanding certifications and minimal oversees experience is unfortunately not good enough in today's market conditions where there are people with 10 to 15 yrs exp withing the local market finding it extremely difficult to secure management roles.

Hope this clears it up a lot more for you
Cheers
KP

[kenfrapin]

Npanglia - Rather than waiting for us to clarify, you will get a better idea if you just search for Six Sigma and PM jobs on some good portals like jobsite, monster, reed etc.
Go through each job posting, see what they are asking for, the relevant experience and what they mean by it and then decide where you stand.

There maybe one of two bogus jobs but most are genuine and will give you a clear idea of where you stand with respect to what companies expect from candidates in your area of expertise. I am not talking of the process of applying but specifically the actual contents of the job advert

All the best to you
KP

[ilrseeker]

May this make things more clear....

Job adv in jobserve
Six Sigma (Black belt) - immediate start - Scotland Contract


Six Sigma (Black belt) - immediate start - Scotland
Six Sigma (Black belt) - immediate start - Scotland

My client is currently recruiting for a Six Sigma black belt for a three month rolling contract. This role is a junior/mid level black belt consultant role. Unfortunately you will not be considered if you have not got experience working on projects as a black belt. The essential skills for this role are Black Belt certification and previous project experience using this. The manager would be looking for candidates who have worked on transactional projects rather than manufacturing. This role will look to interview as early as tomorrow and would look to start soon afterwards.

[npanglia]

May this make things more clear....

Job adv in jobserve

I am tracking these websites and I see 1-2 jobs listed on Six Sigma each day. Please help me interpret this no. (1-2 jobs per day).
Is it good, bad, neutral, can't say?