Accommodation

[ElizabethB]

Hello again

I will be the sponsor and I have a question about accommodation.

I live with a great friend who charges me £250 inc. all bills p.m which I pay to her through internet banking transfer once every quarter, when my student grant comes in. We don't have tenancy agreement, or anything formal - she is just a great friend and I am helping her with her mortgage payments this way. She is more than happy for my husband-to-be to come and stay until he has he own income and we can go and rent something together.

At the moment, my statements etc. are also all going to my parents address, close by in the same city. I basically treat this as my base as I have been going in and out of the country to the country of my fiance for the last couple of years so used this address.

My question is: can I get a lodger agreement from my friend, and a letter showing that she is happy for another person to come into the flat? And ALSO get a letter (and inspection report if necessary) from my parents saying that their spare room is ALWAYS open to me and my spouse should we need to stay there while he looks for work,if for whatever reason we are unable to stay with my friend? Will this satisfy them? I have checked and neither my friend's flat nor my parent's house would count as being overcrowded.

Thanks very much

[ElenaW]

Yes deffinitely get some sort of rental agreement from your friend and a letter stating that she's okay with your husband living there. Also take pictures of the rooms and write down the measurements. Do your parents own their home? I don't think you'll need that letter from your parents anyways. The rental agreement with your friend should be fine. If you share Spam and bathrooms, you should get an inspection report.

[ElizabethB]

Hi boulevardofbrokendreams, thanks very much for the quick response.

The reason I am concerned for my friend is that if my husband comes to stay with us and is put on the tenancy agreement that would effect her single supplement for council tax - as I am a student she can still claim her single supplement. I guess I need to work out how much more we would have to pay her for council tax.

Yes my parents own their own home, no mortgage. I still think I will get a letter from them, to also try to indicate that my husband is entering into a wider network and family. I have this set of parents, another set, a grand-mother, step-family etc, all in the same city and all that I see regularly and help each other out in small ways - fixing things for free, cooking for each other etc. I know that is not needed on the application, but it sure can't do any harm can it?!

[ElenaW]

You're right, it won't do any harm. If you're getting a letter from your parents you also need to get a title register and a title plan to show that they are the owners of the property.

[immigrationuk2009]

Hi

Well you dont need Tenancy agreement from your friend..He can simply give you a letter that you can live at his address for as long you wish and house would not be overcrowded.He should in his letter how many bedrooms are there and how many people are living there.

If you include a tenancy agreement then it would creat under complication.For example why you were paying quarterly rent..I have never heard anything like that..What proofs you have for rent..

So simple solution...You need

1.Your friend Invitation letter
2.His Tenancy agreement
3.Permission from Landlord
4.Your friend council tax plus utility bills
5.House Photographs with exact measure at back
6.Property Title and deeds Plans.

Hope answer your question.

UK_Banned_Member

[ElenaW]

Hi

Well you dont need Tenancy agreement from your friend..He can simply give you a letter that you can live at his address for as long you wish and house would not be overcrowded.He should in his letter how many bedrooms are there and how many people are living there.

If you include a tenancy agreement then it would creat under complication.For example why you were paying quarterly rent..I have never heard anything like that..What proofs you have for rent..

So simple solution...You need

1.Your friend Invitation letter
2.His Tenancy agreement
3.Permission from Landlord
4.Your friend council tax plus utility bills
5.House Photographs with exact measure at back
6.Property Title and deeds Plans.

Hope answer your question.

UK_Banned_Member

But the friend's letter can just state that all rent has been paid on time and is up to date. Why would there be any complications? Does it really matter if the tenant pays quarterly or monthly/weekly?

[immigrationuk2009]

Hi

Indeed it matters...Have you heard quarterly rent.. I never heard..

What the point if inviting letter is enough for proof..What the point creating complication...As you know third party accommodation is allowed..

What proofs are available for quarterly rent..Then home office would also ask for utility bills and council tax as proof...

We can do it by both way..One is simple and other is difficult..Now it is upto op how he do that..

UK_Banned_Member

[ElenaW]

Hi

Indeed it matters...Have you heard quarterly rent.. I never heard..

What the point if inviting letter is enough for proof..What the point creating complication...As you know third party accommodation is allowed..

What proofs are available for quarterly rent..Then home office would also ask for utility bills and council tax as proof...

We can do it by both way..One is simple and other is difficult..Now it is upto op how he do that..

UK_Banned_Member

No I haven't heard of anyone pay rent quarterly but I haven't heard of anyone paying £250 with all bills included (not even per month at that cheap). So this is more like a contribution rather than rent and bills being paid.

I have known plenty of people get approved without providing utility bills or council tax proof. Especially since the OP is a student and is exempt from council tax. Can she not just provide signed reciepts or a rent book?

I guess you're right a letter seems to be fine in this case as it's more like living with a friend rather than being a tenant. My landlord would certainly not charge me such low fees!

I'm not trying to be snarky, just trying to understand.

[ElizabethB]

Hi, thanks for all your posts.

Firstly, I pay quarterly rent because I receive my grant quarterly. I therefore prefer to get the rent out of the way so that what I have left is mine. I can prove it with evidence of bank transfers but we have nothing written down - no receipts, nothing as it is purely one of those informal friend-to-friend arrangements (that actually works!) And yes I am very lucky!!

My friend (she!) owns the property, and yes it is very low rent - she does not make a profit out of it, but it helps her (if I were not here she would not have another tenant, it is because I am a good friend).

My name is on no utility bills as my rent includes all bills - so she just pays everything & I simply give her £750 per quarter.

So I guess I need:

1. Friend invitation letter (including indicating my rental history & that I pay)
2. Her title deeds
3. Her council tax & utility bills (why would they need this from her?)
4. Photos & measurements of room

I realise they have changed the rule on third-party support recently (when I was looking at this forum back in Sept/Oct 09 it was the opposite & seemed that even a lodger agreement would not be enough if you were not being supported by family, you had to have a tenancy agreement).

I get £3300 per quarter, no credit card bills / loans (except student loan but am not paying that off yet as not within the threshold) so after the £750 rent I am left with more than the necessary £105 (or whatever the exact amount is) per week. Still, it is not vast sums of cash - would it still be wise to get something from my parents saying we can stay there as a back-up - completely free - especially in the recent economic climate & jobs not being as easy to come by as they were a few years ago?!! My husband-to-be is not highly educated or with specific skills that would slot easily into a decent job.

Thanks as ever for your time and consideration.

[andyb123]

they don't need her council tax and utility bills... these are on the list of "you can send ONE of the following as proof you live at this address", most people send more than one in case there is any issue with anything, a shot gun approach

get a tenancy agreement drawn up and a letter from your friend stating she is inviting your husband to also stay there, a copy of the land registry entry is also a good idea

you COULD get your friend to phone the gas/electricity company and have your name added to the bills - this has no implication for you or her other than your name appearing on the bill - as soon as you are done with your visa application she can have your name removed again

i would also suggest you contact the local council and ask them to do a "Housing Inspection for Entry Clearance" to get them to atest that the property will not be "overcrowded" as defined in the Housing Act 1985

[immigrationuk2009]

Hi

Hi

Indeed it matters...Have you heard quarterly rent.. I never heard..

What the point if inviting letter is enough for proof..What the point creating complication...As you know third party accommodation is allowed..

What proofs are available for quarterly rent..Then home office would also ask for utility bills and council tax as proof...

We can do it by both way..One is simple and other is difficult..Now it is upto op how he do that..

UK_Banned_Member

No I haven't heard of anyone pay rent quarterly but I haven't heard of anyone paying £250 with all bills included (not even per month at that cheap). So this is more like a contribution rather than rent and bills being paid.

I have known plenty of people get approved without providing utility bills or council tax proof. Especially since the OP is a student and is exempt from council tax. Can she not just provide signed reciepts or a rent book?

I guess you're right a letter seems to be fine in this case as it's more like living with a friend rather than being a tenant. My landlord would certainly not charge me such low fees!

I'm not trying to be snarky, just trying to understand.

Yes you perfect calculated the situation in this case.

So answer is very simple...Ask your friend to write a inviting letter+his tenancy agreement with utility bills+Property Inspection report with house photograph+property deed and title plan+Landlord permission letter.

You would be fine..

No need for saying rent details..Simply an invitation letter would be suffice.

Well this is my view and I left other things for op.

I would also advice always go with good legal advice..

UK_Banned_Member

[ElizabethB]

Thanks ImmigrationUK2009 and Andyb123, I shall follow this advice. Just to clarify, my friend IS the owner of the house (not a tenant herself), so I should provide inviting letter + property inspection report (and photos & measurements) + property deed and title plan....

Cheers

[immigrationuk2009]

Thanks ImmigrationUK2009 and Andyb123, I shall follow this advice. Just to clarify, my friend IS the owner of the house (not a tenant herself), so I should provide inviting letter + property inspection report (and photos & measurements) + property deed and title plan....

Cheers

Exactly

Yes

[ElizabethB]

Sorry to come back to this topic.

I wonder if I could clarify a couple of points? Firstly, I (stupidly) forgot to put my name on any utility bills (pay inclusive rent). I do have the following to prove that I am at that address: Bank statements (three banks), electoral roll confirmation, driving licence. Should I include these as proof that I reside there? (obviously bank statements will be there anyway).

Still concerned that 3rd party support might not be accepted by ECO yet & we will be applying soon. I have got a 'Lodger Agreement' written & signed by me & my friend. As I live with her can't get tenancy agreement as that is for when the tenant doesn't live with the landlord. I know however that tenants under Lodger Agreements don't have the same rights as assured shorthold tenants. I am worried that we will get caught somewhere between 3rd party support & living as a tenant with full tenant rights and the ECO might reject.

Any advice would be really so helpful. Thanks

[Kitty]

Hi ElizabethB

Yes, no harm in including proof that you live at the address, if you have it.

IME, "third party support" is not really an issue in respect of accommodation where you pay a contribution to the person you live with. What I have seen questioned is the ability of the property owner (i.e. your firend) realistically to afford having you live there rent-free or at a nominal rent.

As well as the title documents, it would be useful to submit evidence that your friend is up-to-date with her mortgage payments and can afford to continue paying them.

I realise that this is a bit intrusive for her, but stability is a component of your fiance/husband being "accommodated without recourse to public funds".

Then again, if your parents can confirm that you can both live with them as an alternative, then that may well fulfil the same function.

[ElizabethB]

Hi ElizabethB

Yes, no harm in including proof that you live at the address, if you have it.

IME, "third party support" is not really an issue in respect of accommodation where you pay a contribution to the person you live with. What I have seen questioned is the ability of the property owner (i.e. your firend) realistically to afford having you live there rent-free or at a nominal rent.

As well as the title documents, it would be useful to submit evidence that your friend is up-to-date with her mortgage payments and can afford to continue paying them.

I realise that this is a bit intrusive for her, but stability is a component of your fiance/husband being "accommodated without recourse to public funds".

Then again, if your parents can confirm that you can both live with them as an alternative, then that may well fulfil the same function.

Thanks very much for that! So prompt too! I think the issue of potential 3rd party support came up in this case because my rent is really low relative to the market (my landlady is a very good friend). I am getting a statement(s) from her that proves she's up-to-date with mortgage payments.

If I also get something from my family as back-up, do I need the whole stuff for them too (i.e. letter, deeds, mortgage statements, photos, letter from council)?

Whilst I have your (or anyone else's!) attention, with regards to finances, does the ECO need to see that you have guaranteed income for the next 27months of the visa (spouse)? My scholarship runs out in Mar 2011, when I will have to look for a job myself. Will this have an impact? My savings would help (£4000) but not very far at all!

Thanks for your advice

[batleykhan]

Elizabeth the only problem I can forsee with your accommodation ( because it has happened to 3 people on this forum already ) is that the ECO has strong doubts where the sponsor is sharing a flat with their friends.

I know of 3 people who have been refused simply because they were sharing with their friends and their name was not on included ont he Tennancy Agreement.

The ECO refused them on the grounds that he was not satisfied that the accommodation would be available and guaranteed when the spouse arrives in the UK on the grounds that if the tennant was to have a fall out with each other, the ones whose name was not included on the TA would not have a leg to stand on, if the other one wants to throw them out.

This is a risk you take if you share with friends. Any other agreement other than a TA is not a legal binding document. You would not have the same rights as you would under a TA.

I hope it doesnt happen to you, but I thought I'd just warn you about it.

[ElizabethB]

Elizabeth the only problem I can forsee with your accommodation ( because it has happened to 3 people on this forum already ) is that the ECO has strong doubts where the sponsor is sharing a flat with their friends.

I know of 3 people who have been refused simply because they were sharing with their friends and their name was not on included ont he Tennancy Agreement.

The ECO refused them on the grounds that he was not satisfied that the accommodation would be available and guaranteed when the spouse arrives in the UK on the grounds that if the tennant was to have a fall out with each other, the ones whose name was not included on the TA would not have a leg to stand on, if the other one wants to throw them out.

This is a risk you take if you share with friends. Any other agreement other than a TA is not a legal binding document. You would not have the same rights as you would under a TA.

I hope it doesnt happen to you, but I thought I'd just warn you about it.

Thanks for the warning. So it sounds like I am in a weaker position than these three other people because I don't even have a tenancy agreement, I just have a lodger agreement. The letter from the landlady (my friend) saying that my husband will be able to stay indefinitely is not enough then I am assuming?

OK, so I will ask my parents to provide something to back-up this accommodation query. Do they need to provide the whole package (deeds, evidence of up-to-date mortgage payments, letter, photos)? And do the deeds & evidence of up-to-date mortgage payments need to be originals?

Thanks very much for your advice.

[batleykhan]

Thanks for the warning. So it sounds like I am in a weaker position than these three other people because I don't even have a tenancy agreement, I just have a lodger agreement. The letter from the landlady (my friend) saying that my husband will be able to stay indefinitely is not enough then I am assuming?

Yes by sharing with friends without your name on the TA , you are in a weaker position and liable to refusal. The LA is not a binding agreement in law

OK, so I will ask my parents to provide something to back-up this accommodation query. Do they need to provide the whole package (deeds, evidence of up-to-date mortgage payments, letter, photos)? And do the deeds & evidence of up-to-date mortgage payments need to be originals?

You need a letter of consent from parents if you are going to stay with them. You will need to provide co[pes of their deed as proof that they are owners

[ElizabethB]

Hi, thanks as always for your help.

My Dad & his partner are going to be 'back up' support for accommodation. So I will provide all the details of where I am currently living, but write that should we ever need to, my spouse & I can stay at my Father's place.

Quick question: they need 'deeds'. Having never been a property-owner, I am not familiar with all this language. Is the Land Registry docs you can order & print from the Land Registry Online service sufficient or is this something separate?

Thanks

[nicky1234]

Hi, thanks as always for your help.

My Dad & his partner are going to be 'back up' support for accommodation. So I will provide all the details of where I am currently living, but write that should we ever need to, my spouse & I can stay at my Father's place.

Quick question: they need 'deeds'. Having never been a property-owner, I am not familiar with all this language. Is the Land Registry docs you can order & print from the Land Registry Online service sufficient or is this something separate?

Thanks

You can go to land registry website and can get title deeds and plan for £4 each(£4 for title plan and £4 for Register plan) and these are emailed instantly.

I got these for my brother who has applied for spouse visa recently.

Nicky

[ElizabethB]

Hi, thanks as always for your help.

My Dad & his partner are going to be 'back up' support for accommodation. So I will provide all the details of where I am currently living, but write that should we ever need to, my spouse & I can stay at my Father's place.

Quick question: they need 'deeds'. Having never been a property-owner, I am not familiar with all this language. Is the Land Registry docs you can order & print from the Land Registry Online service sufficient or is this something separate?

Thanks

You can go to land registry website and can get title deeds and plan for £4 each(£4 for title plan and £4 for Register plan) and these are emailed instantly.

I got these for my brother who has applied for spouse visa recently.

Nicky

Thanks Nicky! I've got these - are they the same as the 'deeds' or does my Father need to go to his solicitor to get something else that is called the 'deeds'?!

[nicky1234]

Hi, thanks as always for your help.

My Dad & his partner are going to be 'back up' support for accommodation. So I will provide all the details of where I am currently living, but write that should we ever need to, my spouse & I can stay at my Father's place.

Quick question: they need 'deeds'. Having never been a property-owner, I am not familiar with all this language. Is the Land Registry docs you can order & print from the Land Registry Online service sufficient or is this something separate?

Thanks

You can go to land registry website and can get title deeds and plan for £4 each(£4 for title plan and £4 for Register plan) and these are emailed instantly.

I got these for my brother who has applied for spouse visa recently.

Nicky

Thanks Nicky! I've got these - are they the same as the 'deeds' or does my Father need to go to his solicitor to get something else that is called the 'deeds'?!

Yes these are same.

This is government web site and this is for property deeds.You dont need to go to solicitors for deeds.
Solicitors dont have property deeds.

[ElizabethB]

Hi, thanks as always for your help.

My Dad & his partner are going to be 'back up' support for accommodation. So I will provide all the details of where I am currently living, but write that should we ever need to, my spouse & I can stay at my Father's place.

Quick question: they need 'deeds'. Having never been a property-owner, I am not familiar with all this language. Is the Land Registry docs you can order & print from the Land Registry Online service sufficient or is this something separate?

Thanks

You can go to land registry website and can get title deeds and plan for £4 each(£4 for title plan and £4 for Register plan) and these are emailed instantly.

I got these for my brother who has applied for spouse visa recently.

Nicky

Thanks Nicky! I've got these - are they the same as the 'deeds' or does my Father need to go to his solicitor to get something else that is called the 'deeds'?!

Yes these are same.

This is government web site and this is for property deeds.You dont need to go to solicitors for deeds.
Solicitors dont have property deeds.

Brilliant! Thanks for clarifying, that is going to save a lot of time. Phew!

[nicky1234]

You can go to land registry website and can get title deeds and plan for £4 each(£4 for title plan and £4 for Register plan) and these are emailed instantly.

I got these for my brother who has applied for spouse visa recently.

Nicky

Thanks Nicky! I've got these - are they the same as the 'deeds' or does my Father need to go to his solicitor to get something else that is called the 'deeds'?!

Yes these are same.

This is government web site and this is for property deeds.You dont need to go to solicitors for deeds.
Solicitors dont have property deeds.

Brilliant! Thanks for clarifying, that is going to save a lot of time. Phew!

You are welcome.

Nicky