Failed naturalisation case. PLEASE help

yulita11 · Post by **yulita11** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:42 pm

Hi, everyone. This is my story:
1999 - arrived in the UK and applied for asylum
May 2001 - had an interview (whilst 7 months pregnant)
NO decision received by me, or my solicitor, or the social services supporting me at that time
July 2001 - had a baby
Sep 2002 - became an undergraduate student
Sep 2004 - has been sent a questionneer about the one-off family exercise
Jan 2005 - received ILR
Feb 2006 - Applied for a naturalisation
Feb 2006 - Received a refusal on the grounds that I have been in this country ILLEGALLY from May 2001 until Sep 2004!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I cannot belive this. Neither me, not my solicitor received any letters about my case been refused. I have changed 5 addresses since then, and EVERY time I notified the Home Office in writing! Surely, they could have deported me during those years, I wasn't hiding!
PLEASE HELP!
What do I do now? I am very confused and appalled by this decision.
Thanks,
Julia

mhunjn · Post by **mhunjn** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:52 pm

Since you already have ILR, can't you wait longer?... They can't deport you when are on ILR?... might worth be waiting for a couple of years or so before applying?...

The 5 yrs for naturalisation have to be in legal stay capacity... with one year on ILR. Your case does fall in the grey area for the first few years till you got ILR.

Hopefull someone more knowledgeable will add their suggestions soon.

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:17 pm

This is a rather 'strange' case - clearly the rules state that during the 5 year period - there shouldnt been any 'illegal stay'..

..however, you came under the so called 'amnesty' - am i right? and you got ILR..

so if you can demonstrate that your stay befor the grant of ILR was 'legal' then you are OK; otherwise you have to serve the '5 year stay' rule...

I am sure you can be considered outside the rules...or just have to wait....

yulita11 · Post by **yulita11** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:42 pm

Thanks for quick replies

The only thing is, neither me nor my solicitor were aware of refusal on my case!
Otherwise, I would have challenged that refusal straight away, I had solid case with all the evidences. But I did not know that I was refused my asylum claim! When my solicitor or me rang to the HO, the answer always was 'You have to wait for you decision'. Not even a hint about refusal letters or anything.

Now they are saying the earliest I can apply is September 2009. I can use my degree in Government bodies (mostly), such as Inland Revenue etc. BUT they refused my job application already on the ground of not being British (some vacancies can only be taken by British). I am definitely taking this to court.

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:04 pm

yulita11 wrote:Thanks for quick replies
The only thing is, neither me nor my solicitor were aware of refusal on my case!
Otherwise, I would have challenged that refusal straight away, I had solid case with all the evidences. But I did not know that I was refused my asylum claim! When my solicitor or me rang to the HO, the answer always was 'You have to wait for you decision'. Not even a hint about refusal letters or anything.

Now they are saying the earliest I can apply is September 2009. I can use my degree in Government bodies (mostly), such as Inland Revenue etc. BUT they refused my job application already on the ground of not being British (some vacancies can only be taken by British). I am definitely taking this to court.

No need taking this to court - A British passport is not an automatic right to an immigrant!

aim for jobs where British citizenship is not required...

2009 is not far off - by which time you will get your nice red biometric passport

Smit · Post by **Smit** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:06 pm

Good luck with your court case. I presume you will be filing an action for judicial review.

But remember the Home Secretary has wide discretion in deciding naturalisation applications irrespective of the applicant meeting the residence requirements, look at Al Fayed's case.

I would advise you to sit out and wait till 2009 as advised by the Home Office, but wish you all the best if you do carry on with formal proceedings which could be time consuming and expensive not to say the least.

Post by **John** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:34 pm

Julia, much as I sympathise with you, I think it comes down to this. During the qualifying period .... five years ... except just three years if married (or in civil partnership with) a British Citizen .... you must not have been "an illegal" for any of the time.

Or put it another way, you are an illegal unless you have legal permission to stay here.

So the (admittedly blunt) question is ... what makes you (or your solicitor) think you were legal prior to getting your ILR. From what you have posted there is nothing. Are you assuming that the mere fact they did not deport you must mean they thought you were legal? Sorry, it does not work that way.

So unless I have misunderstood what you have posted, I think you should forget any Court action. Simply a waste of time and money.

Or do post why you think you were legally in the UK for all of your five year qualifying period ... finishing the day IND received your naturalisation application?

Or if you really do insist upon Court action, maybe against the solicitor who advised you you were time-qualified to apply for naturalisation? It seems to me there was no chance the application would be granted.

As already said in this topic, sit it out until 5 years are up ..... September 2009 .... or until some date in September 2007 if by then you are married to (or in civil partnership with) a British Citizen.

mhunjn · Post by **mhunjn** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:40 pm

You have to appreciate that taking asylum does not automatically lead to settlement. So, it's not your RIGHT... it's a discretion exercised by the Home Office... in other words, you cannot demand settlement, you can only request!...
There's never a 100% chance of getting any application being approved in HO, be it a FLR, WP or naturalisation... irrespective of what evidence you have.

Also, i am sure there must be a lot of job opportunities in your particular skill area where being 'British' is not required...
Just out of interest, what sort of jobs are you aiming for?...

yulita11 wrote: Otherwise, I would have challenged that refusal straight away, I had solid case with all the evidences...

...BUT they refused my job application already on the ground of not being British (some vacancies can only be taken by British). I am definitely taking this to court.

ppron747 · Post by **ppron747** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:13 pm

I agree with John, Julia. I think that the circumstances in which you finally gained ILR indicate that there was no refusal before that time - your application was continuing to be "considered" - albeit not very actively - until ILR was granted.
I'm sorry to say that the fact that you did not know that you were here unlawfully doesn't mean that this was not the case...
If your solicitor advised you that you met the requirements, I suspect that your battle should be with him or her, not the Home Office.
Sorry...

yulita11 · Post by **yulita11** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:45 pm

Thanks for all your replies and advices
I really appriciate this:)
I will keep you all posted on how things are going, I've an appointment with my solicitor tomorrow, he is going to prepare 'Letter before Claim' (as far as I understand).
Thanks again,
Julia

Post by **John** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:01 pm

Seriously, don't go down that route! Go to a different solicitor, if you must, and get that new solicitor to prepare a 'Letter before Claim' against your present solicitor! That is assuming your present solicitor advised you that you could apply for naturalisation last year. At the very least you want back your lost £200 application fee. Presumably you have had a refund of the £68 Citizenship Ceremony element?

Or at least ask your solicitor on what grounds he/she thinks you were legally in the UK for the whole of five-year period up to when you applied for naturalisation.

yulita11 · Post by **yulita11** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:58 pm

Why should I sue my present solicitor? He was NOT aware of any 'illegal' stay in the UK, and he was writing to the Home Office promptly checking the progress of my case, informing them about changes etc. The Home Office had failed to send me the refusal letter on my asylum case, not my solicitor. How comes that during all those years of writing to the Home Office whilst waiting for my decision, I was getting back 'decision in process' letters? And, five years later, suddenly out of blue, 'You were in breach of immigration law... blah... blah ' letter?

Whose mistake is that? And who is going to pay for this mistake?

mhunjn · Post by **mhunjn** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:19 pm

With this attitude, you might actually pay the penalty of being on the blacklist as far as naturalisation approval from IND goes... don't forget that you came here as an asylum seeker...

Why can't you just wait and apply later on?... why risk it all?...

Smit · Post by **Smit** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:29 pm

Julia,

I wouldn't want to open a can of worms by suing the very Home Office that has advised you to lodge your application in 2009.

I agree that it seems unfair that neither you nor your solicitor was kept informed of your asylum situation between the time you applied for asylum and the time you received your naturalisation rejection letter but I would consider myself lucky to have got ILR in 2005 as this decision was made outside the rules and as a one off exercise as I understand it. You did not have a god given right to the ILR and you most certainly don't have an absolute right to be naturalised as a BC.

Anyways, good luck in whatever you decide to do. Unlike your solicitor, none of the members in this forum is being paid for advising you, so it would be nice to be shown a little bit of appreciation for our time.

Smit

yulita11 · Post by **yulita11** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:53 pm

Oh, please, don't get me wrong,
I REALLY DO appriciate all your time and opinions. Thank you again.
Please, don't think I am an ungrateful cow.

If i sounded bitter, it was just because the whole situation is killing me, really. I haven't seen my family for 7 years, and my grandfather is disabled now. They haven't seen my son yet, and he will be five this summer. They cannot come here for a holiday, and i cannot go there either. That's all.

Post by **John** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:10 pm

Why should I sue my present solicitor? He was NOT aware of any 'illegal' stay in the UK, and he was writing to the Home Office promptly checking the progress of my case, informing them about changes etc.

OK, if you didn't give him the full facts it is clearly the case that you can't sue him ... either!

Whose mistake is that? And who is going to pay for this mistake?

Sorry to say, I think it is yours! That is, you seem to have failed to take any advice, well certainly not from your current solicitor, and had you done so you would no doubt have been advised not to submit the naturalisation application until 2009 or 2010.

Who pays? You do ... the £200 lost application fee.

If i sounded bitter, it was just because the whole situation is killing me, really. I haven't seen my family for 7 years, and my grandfather is disabled now. They haven't seen my son yet, and he will be five this summer. They cannot come here for a holiday, and i cannot go there either. That's all.

But getting a British passport won't change that, will it? Is there anything stopping you going back to your previous country now? Or if that is not possible or advisable .... given you did claim asylum you might not want to go back .... can your relatives travel to a neighbouring country, and you meet them there?

Your son! He is now Registered as British and now has a British passport? If not, why have you not done that?

stedman · Post by **stedman** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:10 pm

yulita11 wrote:Oh, please, don't get me wrong,
I REALLY DO appriciate all your time and opinions. Thank you again.
Please, don't think I am an ungrateful cow.
If i sounded bitter, it was just because the whole situation is killing me, really. I haven't seen my family for 7 years, and my grandfather is disabled now. They haven't seen my son yet, and he will be five this summer. They cannot come here for a holiday, and i cannot go there either. That's all.

What sort of ILR did you get that stops you from getting jobs and travelling abroad?

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:16 pm

yulita11 wrote:Oh, please, don't get me wrong,
I REALLY DO appriciate all your time and opinions. Thank you again.
Please, don't think I am an ungrateful cow.
If i sounded bitter, it was just because the whole situation is killing me, really. I haven't seen my family for 7 years, and my grandfather is disabled now. They haven't seen my son yet, and he will be five this summer. They cannot come here for a holiday, and i cannot go there either. That's all.

You have your ILR so you can fly out and get back in - whats the biggie here?

yulita11 · Post by **yulita11** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:17 pm

Dear John,

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT I WAS REFUSED EITHER. The Home Office never sent me a letter about refusing my asylum case!
Me and my solicitor just found out TODAY that I have been refused in 2001.

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:18 pm

yulita11 wrote:Dear John,

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT I WAS REFUSED EITHER. The Home Office never sent me a letter about refusing my asylum case!
Me and my solicitor just found out TODAY that I have been refused in 2001.

Count yourself very lucky!

yulita11 · Post by **yulita11** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:34 pm

Count yourself very lucky!

For not being deported during 2001-2004?

ppron747 · Post by **ppron747** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:05 pm

yulita11 wrote:Dear John,

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT I WAS REFUSED EITHER. The Home Office never sent me a letter about refusing my asylum case!
Me and my solicitor just found out TODAY that I have been refused in 2001.

I still cannot see how this makes the naturalisation refusal wrong in law. Whether you knew it or not, you were in UK unlawfully, and therefore were not eligible for naturalisation.

BUT if you are certain that a refusal decision was taken in 2001, and not communicated to you, it seems to me that you may have an argument that, had the Home Office told you in 2001 of the refusal, you would not have applied for naturalisation at this time, and that therefore they should make an ex gratia refund of the fee you paid.

I don't think the courts are the place to argue this; the first step should be a letter of complaint to the Director of IND - the Civil Service Yearbook will give his/her details. If that doesn't do the trick, the Ombudsman (Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration) should be asked to investigate whether there has been maladministration.

yulita11 · Post by **yulita11** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:31 pm

Thanks, Paul
I think you are right about the naturalisation point. But the thing is, if I knew that I was refused at that time (2001), I would have appealed against that refusal decision. Being refused does not make you illegal immediately, it gives you some time to launch the appeal etc and keep fighting for your case.
You always have right to appeal against the decision, but how could I appeal without even knowing that the refusal decision was made?

And yes, if I knew I am not eligible, I surely wouldn't apply for naturalisation.

The other strange thing I've realised is when my university requested the confirmation of my immigration status from the Home Office, they said that my case is still pending and awaiting the decision (and that was July 2003) and confirmed my status as being of 'asylum seeker'.
Could the whole situation be a computer/data input mistake?

ppron747 · Post by **ppron747** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:02 pm

Certainly sounds very strange... Perhaps the next step (which doesn't need a solicitor!) might be for you to put in a subject access request to the Home Office under the Data Protection Act 1998, so that you can see exactly what has gone on, and in what order...

This link will tell you the routine.

Good luck!

Post by **John** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:08 pm

if I knew I am not eligible, I surely wouldn't apply for naturalisation.

Sorry, I have to say that is not the correct way to approach this. Far better would be say :-

Unless I knew I am eligible, I surely wouldn't apply for naturalisation.

But you did not know that for certain, so at least should have taken advice before applying.

And Julia, you have still not answered as to why you cannot travel outside the UK at the present time? And has your son now got a British passport?

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Failed naturalisation case. PLEASE help

Failed naturalisation case. PLEASE help