Moving to the Netherlands with Dutch Partner

[kabuki]

Hi everyone. I'm an American currently residing in Ireland with my Dutch Partner of 2+ years. We are looking into moving to the Netherlands.

I'm currently in Ireland on a trainee accountant visa; however, it runs out in Feb 2010. We will be making an application based on EU law for me to remain in Ireland as her Partner, as we have prior committments that will not allow us to move until after June.

First, will I be able to move to the Netherlands on a partner visa if she is studying? She would have access to €25-35k at that time. Will this be enough, or will she have to be working in order to sponsor me?

Secondly, if I've read everything correctly, if we move to the Netherlands (me on a partner visa), I will qualify for home fees and study grant? According to one website, this would be the case.

Next, I'm interested in becoming a secondary English teacher. I had planned to go to the Uk for this and then move to the Netherlands after 2-3 years in the UK; however, since we recently discovered how cheap it would be for me to attend college in the Netherlands as her partner, we have been talking about skipping the UK and going straight to the Netherlands. This would also help as I could do a MA in English Language and Culture (1 year) and then the MA in Teaching (1 year), which would give me a year to work on my Dutch. I've been told you have to have Dutch to work in the State schools, so I'm hoping to better my Dutch enough in the first year to make it onto a teaching course that is taught in Dutch and then on to teaching. Do you think this will be possible?

In regards to my partner, if she were to decide to work, does anyone know what the market there is like for jobs in animation and media?

Sorry for the long post. I just want to get all the information to make an informed decision, especially since I'll most likely have an offer from King's College London before hearing anything back from the universities in the Netherlands.

Thanks in advance. Your help is much appreciated.

[Ben]

Hi kabuki.

What does your partner do currently, in Ireland?

[kabuki]

What does your partner do currently, in Ireland?

Hi benifa,

She currently works for a small e-learning company. She has a BA in Multimedia Management and has several years of experience, including a year+ at senior level. Her current role is Senior Animator.

Also, she has been living here for 12+ years, as her parents moved here when she was 12.

Thanks.

[Ben]

In that case Singh conditions apply, since your partner has been pursuing an economic activity in another Member State.

You can both "return" to Holland where your partner will be treated as an EU national for the purpose of Community Law, and you will be treated as the family member of an EU national, as described in Article 3(2)(b) of EU Directive 2004/38/EC.

It should be noted that your partner will be expected to continue to pursue an economic activity when back in Holland.

In Holland, you should apply for a Residence Card of a family member of a Union citizen, as described in Article 10 of the Directive.

You will have the right to reside, to work, to open a business, and to engage in a course of study in Holland.

After 5 years, you will have acquired Permanent Residence.

[kabuki]

Thanks benifa. That is extremely helpful. I really appreciate it.

[Ben]

Pleasure.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

It should be noted that your partner will be expected to continue to pursue an economic activity when back in Holland.

Note that she does not have to work full time in Holland. A part time job is also fine.

I assume you are not married.

You might want to consider applying for an Residence Card in Ireland (4EUFam in Ireland) so that you have documented proof of being together under European law. It may not matter, especially if you have a good paper trail behind you, but it is also free to apply.

With luck, you will be able to work very quickly after arriving in Holland.

Also note that you do not need to take the dutch "civic integration exam", in this case because you are entering the netherlands under EU law. You are also exempted (strangely) as an American.

As of 15 March 2006, a number of foreign nationals who wish to come to the Netherlands for a longer period and require a provisional residence permit must now take the civic integration examination abroad. This examination tests candidates’ basic knowledge of the Dutch language and of Dutch society. This takes place before the foreign national comes to the Netherlands.

[kabuki]

I assume you are not married.

You might want to consider applying for an Residence Card in Ireland (4EUFam in Ireland) so that you have documented proof of being together under European law. It may not matter, especially if you have a good paper trail behind you, but it is also free to apply.

We are not married. I'm currently in Ireland on a Stamp1A; however, I just lost my job and my permission to remain runs out at the end of Feb 2010, so we are planning to submit an application for 4EUFam. We are waiting until January because we have travels booked in November and December, plus, if it's refused, it should buy us time til the summer to make the move to the Netherlands.

Thanks for your help Directive!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

We are waiting until January because we have travels booked in November and December, plus, if it's refused, it should buy us time til the summer to make the move to the Netherlands.

It is hard to imagine why it would be refused, so long as the EU person was working.

You should submit and them immediately request your passport back. In fact, you might want to submit right now but include only photocopies of your passport. Worst that happens is that they do not accept it. Best that happens is you get the Residence Card two months earlier.

[kabuki]

Note that she does not have to work full time in Holland. A part time job is also fine.

Is studying ok too? Or must she be working? Cheers.

Also, if anyone knows anything about teaching in the Netherlands, information on that will be greatly appreciated too.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Is studying ok too? Or must she be working?

You should read the Singh ruling carefully. It is written in terms of economic activity. (Usually the ECJ decisions are easy enough to read and have good content and explanations. They are also not too long).

If I were a lawyer, I might be skilled in knowing whether the same legal argument would apply to her returning as a student or not. But I am not a lawyer and am not sure one way or another.

[kabuki]

We are waiting until January because we have travels booked in November and December, plus, if it's refused, it should buy us time til the summer to make the move to the Netherlands.

It is hard to imagine why it would be refused, so long as the EU person was working.

You should submit and them immediately request your passport back. In fact, you might want to submit right now but include only photocopies of your passport. Worst that happens is that they do not accept it. Best that happens is you get the Residence Card two months earlier.

I'm worried about the application process as we only have been on the same lease for a year. Prior to this, I was living with her at her old apartment and was never put on the lease as we were looking to move. Also, part of the previous year was spent apart and me abroad as I was working towards finding a way to remain in Ireland, 1 month in the US and 3 months in the Netherlands.

I fear being refused, which would really leave me hanging from Feb 2010 until June 2010, at the very least. Are current lease doesn't expire until June and we can't bail. If it takes them 6 months to respond, as many people have said, that will give us additional time. I'm worried because too many people have seemed to have run into many difficulties applying for a 4EUFam.

[Ben]

Note that she does not have to work full time in Holland. A part time job is also fine.

Is studying ok too? Or must she be working? Cheers.

To "pursue an economic activity" is usually interpreted to mean to be employed or to be self-employed. Remember, a part time job a a few hours a week is employment.

Also, the condition that the EU national should continue to pursue an economic activity upon their return to their home country may or may not be enforced. However, it may negatively affect your application for a Permanent Residence Card in five years time, if it is discovered that your Dutch partner did not pursue an economic activity upon her return to Holland since, in fact, the conditions of residence under the Singh ruling were not met.

That said, it may be argued that to be engaged in a course of study is also considered as to pursue an economic activity. I know of no case law which confirms this though.

EDIT: Apologies Mike, our posts crossed.

[Ben]

I'm worried about the application process as we only have been on the same lease for a year. Prior to this, I was living with her at her old apartment and was never put on the lease as we were looking to move. Also, part of the previous year was spent apart and me abroad as I was working towards finding a way to remain in Ireland, 1 month in the US and 3 months in the Netherlands.

I fear being refused, which would really leave me hanging from Feb 2010 until June 2010, at the very least. Are current lease doesn't expire until June and we can't bail. If it takes them 6 months to respond, as many people have said, that will give us additional time. I'm worried because too many people have seemed to have run into many difficulties applying for a 4EUFam.

Don't worry about any of that.

Clearly, you are the partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested (Article 3(2)(b)).

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I partly agre with benifa, that you should not worry too much.

But since you are not married it is more difficult for you. Some countries assume that two years of history together is a golden number. If you have less than two years of documented history, then they may say no. (And you can appeal). So you need to make sure you have as much documentation about your history as possible. Old emails. Photos over time of you together. Vacation history together. Phone bills when you were calling each other. History of visiting each other's family. etc etc etc.

Do you have a joint bank account? Or joint credit cards (two cards, one account)?

[kabuki]

I partly agre with benifa, that you should not worry too much.

But since you are not married it is more difficult for you. Some countries assume that two years of history together is a golden number. If you have less than two years of documented history, then they may say no. (And you can appeal). So you need to make sure you have as much documentation about your history as possible. Old emails. Photos over time of you together. Vacation history together. Phone bills when you were calling each other. History of visiting each other's family. etc etc etc.

Do you have a joint bank account? Or joint credit cards (two cards, one account)?

We have lots of emails. I spend lots of time with her family as her parents live in Ireland. We have gone on holiday with her parents. We have a lease of 1 year. But we don't have a joint bank account as I opted for a student account with a student credit card. I'm not sure I have all the phone records, as many conversations were in the US and on a prepaid mobile whilst in the Netherlands. Plus, I always used an on-line service for phone calls called nonoh. I can get statements from her family and out friends here. We have lots of pictures too.

I'm worried because of documentation. Also, my partner is working without a contract because her boss is an a**. She has all of her pay stubs though. She had a 6 moth contract which expired 8 months ago, so has been working without a contract, but she should have one again within the next 2 months . . . we hope.

[flyboy]

Note that she does not have to work full time in Holland. A part time job is also fine.

Is studying ok too? Or must she be working? Cheers.

To "pursue an economic activity" is usually interpreted to mean to be employed or to be self-employed. Remember, a part time job a a few hours a week is employment.

Also, the condition that the EU national should continue to pursue an economic activity upon their return to their home country may or may not be enforced. However, it may negatively affect your application for a Permanent Residence Card in five years time, if it is discovered that your Dutch partner did not pursue an economic activity upon her return to Holland since, in fact, the conditions of residence under the Singh ruling were not met.

That said, it may be argued that to be engaged in a course of study is also considered as to pursue an economic activity. I know of no case law which confirms this though.

EDIT: Apologies Mike, our posts crossed.

The following could provide some further information. Although it applies to Danish nationals returning back to Denmark, in theory, from the Metock judgement and the Eind judgement, i suppose it should be applicable to other EU nationals returning back to their home countries as well.

http://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-us/faq/fami ... eu-law.htm

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You might want to consider having your in-laws write a one page statement of how long you have been involved with their daughter and when they met you and .... You can always use that, or similar statements from your friends, as documentation.

[kabuki]

Thanks for all the help.

Here's an update:
I sumbitted an EU1 application in Feb. I'm still waiting for the decision. However, I do have to send in an update as my health insurance has changed. I'm currently working on the temp stamp 4, which is great.

However, we are still looking into moving to the Netherlands. I have applied to several Masters programs there and am awaiting a decision. Tuition fees are a concern, especially at one of the unis as it doesn't accept US Federal Student Loans. As such, I'm hoping to pay home fees based on my partner. Does anyone know if using the Singh rule will void the right to pay home fees as the partner of a Dutch Citizen. If I am issued a partner visa, I will be eligible to pay home fees. I'm not sure about funding, but it would be fantastic to be able to pay 1675e for the course. Any thoughts?

Can anyone help me with the procedures of applying for a residency card as the partner of a Dutch citizen? Can we make the application before moving? I don't need a MVV or to take the Dutch integration exams as I'm from the US. If we have to make it in the Netherlands, how long does it usually take? I know the site says up to 6 months, but doesn't anyone know what the average is? Will my partner need to have a job there already, or can we go based on savings and earning potential? Also, she is starting a company in Ireland with two previous colleagues, but they will be working from home and doing conference calls with one meeting per month. Will this income count towards the income requirement for the application. She also freelances (some Dutch Clients). Will this count for the app?

Help and advice welcome. Thanks.

[Rozen]

Have a look at Yustynne's thread! Hopefully, it will address some of your concerns.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... c&start=20

[kabuki]

Thanks for all the help.

Here's an update:
I sumbitted an EU1 application in Feb. I'm still waiting for the decision. However, I do have to send in an update as my health insurance has changed. I'm currently working on the temp stamp 4, which is great.

The above is in regards to Ireland. I haven't applied to the Netherlands yet as we are currently residing in Ireland and can't move until July/August.

Thanks for the link Rozen, I'll have a close look at that.

[Rozen]

My link was to help with your questions about the Netherlands. That's all. I dunno much about Ireland issues.

[kabuki]

My link was to help with your questions about the Netherlands. That's all. I dunno much about Ireland issues.

I know. I'm not asking questions about Ireland here. I'm just referring to an early post of mine where I stated my current situtation. That's all. Thanks again.

As you have gone through the process of using the Singh, do you know anything about university fees? I know that if I'm on a partner visa using Dutch law that I qualify for home fees, but I'm not sure if that is the case if we use EU law. Do you know? Cheers.

Is there anyone here who has gone through the process of apply for residence card as the partner/spouse of a Dutch citizen?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If you enter the Netherlands on the basis of European Free Movement law, then you must be treated in most areas identically to a citizen of the country.

If a citizen is entitled to some level of fees, then you would get the same.

The UK is a little sneaky here. They have decided that low tuition fees are only given to people who have been resident in the UK for at least 3 years. So most UK citizens get low tuition fees, and most citizens of other EU countries (who have not previously been resident in the UK for three years) must pay the higher fees. I suspect this would be crushed if challenged, but so far it stands.

Will your dutch partner also be moving to the Netherlands? How long have they been working in Ireland?

[kabuki]

If you enter the Netherlands on the basis of European Free Movement law, then you must be treated in most areas identically to a citizen of the country.

If a citizen is entitled to some level of fees, then you would get the same.

The UK is a little sneaky here. They have decided that low tuition fees are only given to people who have been resident in the UK for at least 3 years. So most UK citizens get low tuition fees, and most citizens of other EU countries (who have not previously been resident in the UK for three years) must pay the higher fees. I suspect this would be crushed if challenged, but so far it stands.

Will your dutch partner also be moving to the Netherlands? How long have they been working in Ireland?

Thanks for the info on fees. I was thinking the same, but I wasn't sure. I was curious about the laws in the UK as well, as I have applied to courses there, but I will need to receive a scholarship in order to afford it. I have applied to similar programs in Ireland and NL, and I would prefer NL. Although I do believe EU nationals are still charges home fees, but not sure. It may be just on the courses I was looking at.

Yes, we will both be making the move to NL. She's been living in Ireland for over 13 years as her parents moved her here as a child. She has completed her Junior and Leaving Cert here as well as a BA (Hons) in Multimedia Production Management. She has been working at least part-time since completing her leaving cert (always full-time on breaks and since graduating just over 2 years ago). However, she is currently unemployed, but she as recently started to pick up freelance work with clients in Irlenad, UK, Italy and NL. She is also in the process of starting up a small company with 2 others in Ireland. All work can be completed from home. She hopes to continue this after we move and also look for part-time work in NL.