A page missing in DOj website

[koded]

Do anyone know what happen to this page in Doj website?
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP08000033
Are they updating or just an error?

[koded]

the page is where Documents to support your EUFAm application were listed
but the removed it or rather updating without any information regarading that.

[Ben]

Interesting. When was the last time it had information on it (not blank), do you remember?

[koded]

I noticed yesterday. the funny thing is that they didnt even give a notice there as if that page is not important to applicants for EuFam.
I also noticed that in the S.I. No. 656 of 2006 - European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) (No. 2) Regulations 2006 as tranpose into Irish law there are no mention of evidence to residence in the state there though was mentioned in the original EU Regulations of free movement of persons.
Therefore, those documentary evidence of residence in the state they are requesting from applicants are not necessary.

[roddy1984]

Now if you click on that link, it gives ERROR 404. No idea what happening there.Its 3 days that page isn't working.

[Ben]

Hmmm.. I wonder.

[koded]

Sorry guys! they attached the new requirements here
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... y%20Rights
It is in Pdf. In case you wish to read (http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/EU1%20Ex ... 042010.pdf )
Also, the mentioned there that stamp 3 will be issued as from 1 june instead of stamp 4 pending your application.

[Ben]

Please be advised that with effect from 1 June 2010, the permission to remain which may be given to applicants who are in the State on the basis of a pending application for EU Treaty Rights will be a Stamp 3. This stamp will allow the applicant to remain in Ireland on conditions that the holder does not enter into employment, does not engage in business or profession and does not remain later than a specified date. This stamp will be provided for the period of the application process only (i.e. a maximum of six months).

Are they joking?

Letters of complaint to the Department of Justice and to the European Commission sent.

[kabuki]

Please be advised that with effect from 1 June 2010, the permission to remain which may be given to applicants who are in the State on the basis of a pending application for EU Treaty Rights will be a Stamp 3. This stamp will allow the applicant to remain in Ireland on conditions that the holder does not enter into employment, does not engage in business or profession and does not remain later than a specified date. This stamp will be provided for the period of the application process only (i.e. a maximum of six months).

Are they joking?

Letters of complaint to the Department of Justice and to the European Commission sent.

If Ireland doesn't want to abide by EU laws, then they should just leave the EU. However, doing so would piss off many Irish people. I'm really tired of the crap Ireland and the UK keep pulling to try and work around these laws.

I was lucky. I submitted my application about 3 months ago, so I have a stamp 4, although it hasn't done much good. There isn't much in my field. Plus, we may just be moving countries in 1.5 months. I hope so.

[koded]

You know when I was processing my visa and demanded some unecessarily document from me. I wrote to them that they should stop hiding under Eu. if they think it is not favouring them then they should pull out.
But as we all know Irish immigration is just an integral part of irish government so they cant really do anything when majority of irish people still want to be part of EU.
To my mind I think they are incompetent of handling much applications they are receiving.

[Ben]

The root problem is that the DoJ had no system for processing Directive 2004/38/EC applicants. They simply made it up as they went along. Trial and error, as it were.

In 2005, an EU/non-EU couple had to present themselves to the GNIB in Burgh Quay (regardless of where they were living in Ireland). "Stamp 4" (sic) would be issued immediately, valid for a year.

In 2006, "Stamp 4 EUFam" was invented, as substitution for "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" (legality questionable).

There was a time (early 2008) when the DoJ would refuse to accept an EU1 application if it was submitted during the initial three months of the applicant's residency. I'm not sure what they were intending to achieve by this, but still..

Since 2006 until now, the wording of their template letters (acknowledgements, requests for further documents, rejections, approvals and more) have all been tweaked as time progressed and the EU Treaty Rights section matured.

Their (evolved) system has got better in many ways over the months and years - but they should have had a system to start off with.

Regarding this whole Stamp 3 vs Stamp 4 issue, they could claim ignorance, stupidity or cheekiness in the beginning. Issuing Stamp 3 was wrong. This was pointed out to them and they changed to issuing Stamp 4 instead - a welcome change which is additional to what is required by the Directive.

If the DoJ's intention is to restrict people from working until their EU1 application is approved, why don't they just issue nothing for the six months? No breach of the Directive would occur and it wouldn't get peoples' backs up like the issuance of Stamp 3 does, which, incidentally, is in breach of the Directive since it's issuance causes a stamp to be placed in the passport of someone entitled to work in Ireland, stating that they cannot work.

[iluvireland]

i am working a company last seven years ,,,,now my boss asking valid stamp 4, my tem stamp 4 expired nearly 18 days ago but i did not get any response from DOJ, i am only earning person in my family at the moment becos we have 1 month new baby thats reason my wife can not work,
this news realy shocking for every body and i do not know wat to do

[Monifé]

If the DoJ's intention is to restrict people from working until their EU1 application is approved, why don't they just issue nothing for the six months? No breach of the Directive would occur and it wouldn't get peoples' backs up like the issuance of Stamp 3 does, which, incidentally, is in breach of the Directive since it's issuance causes a stamp to be placed in the passport of someone entitled to work in Ireland, stating that they cannot work.

Hi Ben, I am seriously stressing about this now. We sent in our application as student with health insurance and on the basis of partnership last wednesday although it might not be accepted for processing because I am finished college this month and am looking for a job. I hope to get a job by the end of May and will forward on the documents of course, but what if they don't accept it for processing until I am in employment?

We can't afford from him to be issued with a Stamp 3, we would not be able to live off just my salary, I am only entry level at this moment.

Do you think EU will force them to remove this ridiculous condition?

Regards

[Ben]

Hi Monifé,

Hi Ben, I am seriously stressing about this now. We sent in our application as student with health insurance and on the basis of partnership last wednesday although it might not be accepted for processing because I am finished college this month and am looking for a job. I hope to get a job by the end of May and will forward on the documents of course, but what if they don't accept it for processing until I am in employment?

But you are an EU national with the right of Permanent Residence in Ireland Monifé, since you have lived here for at least five years as a person with the right of residence. If I recall correctly, you have also received your Permanent Residence Certificate from the DoJ, making for easy means of proving your Permanent Residence status. In short, you are not required to work, be a student, have comprehensive sickness insurance cover or be subject to any another such requirement, once you have acquired the right of Permanent Residence.

I accept that this is not acknowledged by the DoJ though, even in their latest publication of guidelines. It is by other Member States, even the UK.

Still, given your circumstances and that of your unmarried partner, I understand why you may be representing yourself as an EU national with the right of residence, as opposed to as an EU national with the right of Permanent Residence - it may be better not to invite too much scrutiny into your partner's application).

We can't afford from him to be issued with a Stamp 3, we would not be able to live off just my salary, I am only entry level at this moment.

As few issues here.

• Firstly, there is no legal requirement for the DoJ to issue a temporary Stamp 4 for six months during EU1 processing. If they wish to issue a temporary Stamp 4, of course this is welcome - but it's not an entitlement.
• Secondly, your unmarried partner is not a "family member" as per the the § 2(2) definition in Directive 2004/38/EC. Rather, he is a "beneficiary" (§ 3(2)). That is, the DoJ have an obligation to "facilitate entry and residence" for your partner, in accordance with national legislation. They must undertake an extensive examination of the personal circumstances and shall justify any denial of residence to him. His right to reside is not automatic, but subject to the approval of the DoJ (though, if all the criteria is met, facilitation of residence cannot reasonably be refused). In short, what this means is that your partner's permission (sic) to work is not acquired until granted by the DoJ. For "beneficiaries", the issuance of six months temporary Stamp 3 is not unlawful.

Do you think EU will force them to remove this ridiculous condition?

Yes I do. Member States are not permitted to treat EU nationals and their family members differently from their own nationals. Member States are also not permitted to impose additional restrictions or conditions on the right of residence of EU nationals and their family members which are in contradiction with the provisions of Directive 2004/38/EC.

[Monifé]

Thanks Ben.

Yeah thats what I thought about the Permanent Residence Certificate, that I do not have to fill all the requirements although my solicitor told me different.

Will just keep the fingers crossed and hope they issue us with an acknowledgement letter next week with a temp stamp 4.