NEW LAWS JULY 2011

[mcclaine]

Exciting news...

Do you have link of WP Wealfare LTD ?

http://www.immigrantwelfare.co.uk/

I am not their member so do not know hoe to join them.

Best wishes for all of you.

Hello all, if you are a WP holder who might benefit from this case, it would make a lot of sense for you to join these guys and fund their case a little. As tesco says, every little helps!

Having attended some of their conference calls for non-members, I am of the view that they are genuine regular people like each of us on here, trying to do something extraordinary with the little spare time they have after work.

I remember when Clause 39 of the new bill was being debated immediately after the HSMP victory last year (which would have moved the goal-posts again, after the original 4 to 5 year shift), a lot of us stated we would be happy to contribute financially to a judicial review of the WP position.

However, by the time some of these guys got together and set up their forum and contacted a barrister, quite a few of us had already received our ILR and so did not feel any pressure to pursue the action.

What we should keep in mind, even for those of us who have recently received their ILR, is that if this action is succesful, we will very likely be entitled to citizenship a year earlier (just as in the case of the pre-April 2006 HSMP guys) and there is less chance that our application for citizenship will meet with new and more unfriendly laws.

Also, to those of you who state that WPs have a legitimate expectation that they should progress on the path to citizenship based on the rules in force when they entered the country, a court has already ruled there is no such legitimate expectation for WP holders in the Ooi case. For the court's reasons, read the detailed judgment available at http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Adm ... /3221.html

I disagree with a lot of the logic advanced by the court in the judgment, but unless this decision is reversed, the government will simply not accept any arguments regarding the legitimate expectations of WP holders, however much we may wish to bleat on. Hence the reason the new case that the Immigrantwlfare guys are trying to bring is so important to WP holders (although there is no guarantee that they will win the case, but at least they are trying to do something).

All the best to everyone!

[mcclaine]

Pierrot, I think you have dome excellent work on this thread - your analysis is always clear and it is evident that you have been following this matter for a while now, given your grasp of the history of the current legal position.

dimsav, I think you are newer to the WP legitimate expectation discussion (my apologies if you are not, but my memory of the 'good old days' of last summer's debates is very quickly receding) but I respect your analysis (some of it is quite stunningly hair-splitting, but aways pretty sharp!). Are you a lawyer by any chance? You certainly think like one (meant very much as a compliment!)

Have fun guys.

[kps2007]

Hello Pierrot95,

Thanks for your update mate. But the question is not Who deserves more than whom, we are all sailing in the same boat of uncertainty. If you guys are filing a suit than i am on it with you. My support and well wishes extend to all of those who are facing the same circumstances as mine. After all like me everyone has decided to make a living in this country and are settled with our families and have kids going to schools who cannot speak any other language than English.

I am just thinking of waiting for rule to be just more clearer and if in case the goal post has been moved in the middle of the game than i am definalty moving to some other country and will not recommend any highly qualified person to seek immigration in the country which changes their mind like a hooker changes clients every night.

Regards,

[Sky_High]

Sky_High, I remember you .

Thanks mate I feel like a celebrate.

I think a lot of people you have mentioned now do not need to join them. However I am more than happy to donate some money to them.

I strongly recommend that any one affected by 4 to 5 year and has not got citizenship yet, its worth to join them plus any one who is on workpermit and planning to get ILR after July-11 (Or early if new GOVT decides to implement law before July-11) should join them. This is the last chance for all WP holders.

[dimsav]

dimsav,
I still disagree with you here.
HSMP post Nov 06 signed a form saying that immigration rules are subject to change and they will have to meet the settlement criteria in place when they apply for settlement.
Where does their legitimate expectation to apply for ILR after 5 years come from?

Pierrot, you kindly provided earlier the link to the video of July 2009 hearing at the House of Commons (great link, thanks again!) I did actually watch the part about HSMP/WP discussion (19:45-20:25) there. It was mentioned there that some "precedent committee" (or so) had considered and assessed that HSMPs did have legitimate expectations in question whereas WPs didn't. In my view, it should be read as "HSMPs won while WPs failed their JR". Hence, explicit mentioning of HSMP (irrespective of JR) in protectional transitional arrangements (btw, suggested by Tories, if I got it right).

At the same time, they didn't rule out that additional protection/transitional arrangements might (but not necessarily will) be also introduced for some other categories at the later stage. It depends much who wins the election...

[dimsav]

dimsav, I think you are newer to the WP legitimate expectation discussion (my apologies if you are not, but my memory of the 'good old days' of last summer's debates is very quickly receding) but I respect your analysis (some of it is quite stunningly hair-splitting, but aways pretty sharp!). Are you a lawyer by any chance? You certainly think like one (meant very much as a compliment!)

Thanks for your warm feedback, mcclane. I am on WP and affected by new rules, hence my wish to understand the whole situation properly. I am not a lawyer by any means (why?), just trying to follow discussions here and read/understand the legislation on my own, when needed. I do maths though and this might sometimes be a source of my confusions, as in "jura" 2 plus 2 seems very often not to have a straightforward answer... But then you guys are always here to help to find out the truth (much appreciated!).

[silversurfer]

In my honest opinion it may make more sense to fight for not applying the upcoming changes restrospectively on the migrants already living in UK.
Fighting for the WP 4 to 5 year change may not hold as much ground.
Rather, WP, HSMP, Tier-1, Tier-2 migrants already in UK before the LAW came in 2009 should be allowed ILR and Citizenship in old rules. Migrants coming after 2009 law should go in the new rules.
Just my thought and no bias.

[kps2007]

Hi,

I thought the whole forum was about the new rules taking place from July11 about the new probationary citizenship issues for WP and Teir1 holders who are in the UK already. My application form mentioned that after 5 years i should be able to apply for ILR subject to change. But i agree with SILVER, we should rather fight for people who are already in the UK and paying the taxes, not claiming benefits and going by the law to get ILR in 5years and the new rules than can be implemented to the people coming after the new rules are in place.

I guess we will be able to raise more money for "http://www.immigrantwelfare.co.uk/" if we are in it together fighting for the same cause regardless of someone being on WP or HSMP. In this way HSMP holders will be able to contribute to the petition as well and will join the force and in turn the money will raised more quickly for a early case.

Just expressing my thoughts.

Regards,

[Pierrot95]

Thanks all for the feedback,

My application form mentioned that after 5 years i should be able to apply for ILR subject to change.

From a strictly legal point of view, can you sign that form and complain later about changes in the rules? Yes it is unfair to move the goal post, but is it illegal? Maybe we can challenge the government on making people to sign such a statement, on basis of human rights or fairness. But when you sign it, I don't see how you can legally challenge future retrospective changes in the rules.

Sorry to seem pessimistic, I am just trying to find solid grounds for hope.

=======

[dimsav]

My application form mentioned that after 5 years i should be able to apply for ILR subject to change.

From a strictly legal point of view, can you sign that form and complain later about changes in the rules? Yes it is unfair to move the goal post, but is it illegal? Maybe we can challenge the government on making people to sign such a statement, on basis of human rights or fairness. But when you sign it, I don't see how you can legally challenge future retrospective changes in the rules.

WP holders didn't sign anything like that in their applications. Moreover, the settlement section for WP doesn't contain any statement like "The immigration rules may change and you must meet the rules that are in place at the time that you apply for settlement." It appears explicitly only for Tier 1/2.

@kps2007: Indeed, it seems to me now that you will be affected by new rules, as Pierrot95 pointed out, since for extending your stay you needed to switch to Tier 1. As a post Nov-06 applicant, you are not covered by HSMP JR. So, formally, you are now Tier 1, with all the consequences...

[Sky_High]

My 2P advice

For all WP holders Immigration Wealfare is best option. WP holder case is different than Tier 2 and Tier 1. Lets see if they file the case next week, than all WP holders should support them (Moral + Money). I think that at this stage its not best option for WP holders to divert their attention to HSMP forum when Immigration Wealfare is almost ready to file the case.

For all new T1 and T2 holders, HSMP forum is the best place if they decide to fight against these rules.

[dimsav]

For all WP holders Immigration Wealfare is best option. WP holder case is different than Tier 2 and Tier 1. Lets see if they file the case next week, than all WP holders should support them (Moral + Money). I think that at this stage its not best option for WP holders to divert their attention to HSMP forum when Immigration Wealfare is almost ready to file the case.

I fully agree and support this advice! Please support "Immigrant Welfare" at http://www.immigrantwelfare.co.uk/ !!!

For all new T1 and T2 holders, HSMP forum is the best place if they decide to fight against these rules.

Actually, HSMP forum has expanded and now promotes a new organisation - "Association of Immigrants", see http://www.aimms.org. It may serve as a proper platform to fight for our human and civil rights, violated by retrospective changes as an example. However, the success of such an activity will depend much on the outcome of the WP case by Immigrant Welfare. We - WPs - need to win and form the precedent (as HSMPs did)!..

[kps2007]

Hi,

Looks like conservatives will form the govt. I guess we are more screwed with their policies to bring immigration down to the level it was in 1997, i don't know how they keep on forgetting that in 1997 UK was not the part of EU. New stats show that immigration from outside the EU is -8000.

how can they blame non-EU migrants for all the mess the country is in at the moment.

KP

[silversurfer]

Hi,

Looks like conservatives will form the govt. I guess we are more screwed with their policies to bring immigration down to the level it was in 1997, i don't know how they keep on forgetting that in 1997 UK was not the part of EU. New stats show that immigration from outside the EU is -8000.

how can they blame non-EU migrants for all the mess the country is in at the moment.

KP

[mrlookforward]

Hi,

Looks like conservatives will form the govt. I guess we are more screwed with their policies to bring immigration down to the level it was in 1997, i don't know how they keep on forgetting that in 1997 UK was not the part of EU. New stats show that immigration from outside the EU is -8000.

how can they blame non-EU migrants for all the mess the country is in at the moment.

KP

Actually UK joined European Community on 1st January 1973.

[adil2009]

Let hope for better after election.

[emu]

I came in the UK at 2004 as student. After compliting my MSc I got workpermit for 5 years at Oct 2006 as IT System Engineer 2006. And I was entitled to get Permanent Residency at Oct 2011.

In the meantime, I have changed my employment and got Tier 2 visa at Sept 2009 which will expire on Sept 2012.

My question is:
Will I be effected by the new Earn Citizenship law which will implemented on July 2011?
Or
I will be able to apply for ILR at Oct 2011 according to the curent law?

Does anyome help me.

I will apprciate your answer. I have already got option to migrate another country permanently. Your answer will help me to make right decision.

Thanks
Emu

[Plum70]

I came in the UK at 2004 as student. After compliting my MSc I got workpermit for 5 years at Oct 2006 as IT System Engineer 2006. And I was entitled to get Permanent Residency at Oct 2011.

My question is:
Will I be effected by the new Earn Citizenship law which will implemented on July 2011?
Or
I will be able to apply for ILR at Oct 2011 according to the curent law?

Law changes in July 2011; you qualify for ILR in Oct 2011... Isn't it obvious what the answer is?

[emu]

I heard that there there is a transitional arrangement for HSMP pre Nov 2006. And WP holders can apply directly post July 2011.

But my situation is I was in WP holder and I have chenged my employment and got new VISA under Tier 2.

Since my initial entry was WP, is there any transitional arrangement for me?

Will I be considered as WP holder or Tier 2 leading earned citizenship?

Regards
Emu

[tara55]

Any news on http://www.immigrantwelfare.co.uk/ ?

[adil2009]

Any news on http://www.immigrantwelfare.co.uk/ ?

Election is sorted so Hope for good news .

[dimsav]

The process has been started - the HO website is being updated!

The previous link to transitional arrangement is dead!!

The one to earned citizenship is only mentioning refugees route now!!!

Sounds like the new team is cleaning up the labour's mess!...

[renzokuken]

Sounds like the new team is cleaning up the labour's mess!...

Let's wait and see, not sure whether the new policy would be better for us

[Sky_High]

The process has been started - the HO website is being updated!

The previous link to transitional arrangement is dead!!

The one to earned citizenship is only mentioning refugees route now!!!

Sounds like the new team is cleaning up the labour's mess!...

Do not worry, I do not think that removing links has some thing to do with change of Govt. Even they have not fully formed the Govt. They do not have new immigration minster. Once they have new minster I do not think that his first order will be to remove probationary citizenship from the website

However bad news is both Tory and Lib Dam agreed to put a cap on immigration

[dimsav]

However bad news is both Tory and Lib Dam agreed to put a cap on immigration

... with no details in their agreement so far.
Question is whether this cap will affect those already present in the UK or be mostly about the newcomers?..