HSMP-Facts learned by HO;leading to policy renewals for Tier

[sharat]

Due to governance & enforcement issues raised with my postings in the other thread, it has been locked. I'm continuing with assurance & permissions from respected Admins.

Note: (03 March 2009) I just updated the thread title - since it was misleading earlier when it was posted 3 years ago.

[webhunter]

i think that topic wil lead no one no where. Over all it would just be a waste of time. I think it was closed for good purpose.

[sharat]

Thank you for your feedback. I will definitely consider it if majority of forum users think same as you.

i think that topic wil lead no one no where. Over all it would just be a waste of time. I think it was closed for good purpose.

[sharat]

Approved applicants (04/05) profile based on country

               Percentage      Male%       Average Age
INDIA          55               98               30
CHINA         21               87               28
USA            11              64                37
S. Africa      6                82               31
Others         7               82(av)          29

[John]

The source of those statistics?

[MWazir]

Given that being under 28 is a huge advantage in the point scoring system, I would have thought the average age would be below 28.

[sharat]

LAW OF AVERAGES does work sometime misleading :: but its fairly clear that except for USA (which is quite high at 37) the majority of the crowd are NOT FAR AWAY from 28 obviously, taking advantage of points on age.

Given that being under 28 is a huge advantage in the point scoring system, I would have thought the average age would be below 28.

[sharat]

Educational profile of approved applicants based on country

%           Graduates           Masters       Ph.D(DPhil)     Higher/Diplomas
INDIA           12                    76               11                 1
CHINA          23                    71                4                  2
USA             53                     26               10                11
S.Africa        38                     50               4                  10
Other           22                     43               15                20

Higher/Diplomas are counted separately in the above profile summary:: Includes fellowships and other honorary degrees awarded

EXAMPLE: If a person is D.Phil and has a fellowship from another organisation/university, his Ph.D & fellowship is counted in HIGHER/DIPLOMAS but not masters and graduate degrees awarded. HENCE % numbers sum are rounded to 100 to represent GRAPHICALLY

[John]

Again I ask .... the source of this detailed information?

[sharat]

Code: Select all

Again I ask .... the source of this detailed information?

ANSWER:: source of this DETAILED information was posted on earlier on the thread that was locked. I'm pasting it below, if that is acceptable

Code: Select all

The POA (Plan Of Action) is for the HSMP stakeholders, that is, none other than our Home Office ministry. 

Thanks for the encouragement to write and I sincerely hope it helps other HSMP folks who are applying and in their decision making process. 

When HSMP was piloted in 02/03 and the govt initially targeted 10% of TOP PROFESSIONALS from other countries to migrate to UK. 

When the scheme started running, they saw huge influx of professional that are aged between 25-35. 
Since the office in Sheffield is working based on the targets set for HSMP by IND and their stakeholders, most of the HSMP applicants (outside or inside 10%) secured the Visa which let them enter the UK and seek work. 

Last year (04/05) they realised that the scheme has not attracted 10% and now doing a sanity check to see what percentage of people that they THOUGHT would come to UK, and in reality how many ended up. 

The data that I furnish here is WITHIN THAT BRACKET which gives me access to lots of information and profiles in general about the applicants and their current situation

JUST TO ADD :: DATA PROTECTION ACT strictly applies here and I DO NOT have access to any individuals personal information.

THE INFORMATION I FURNISH is an extract that is taken from reports ( MIS - Those who are IT professionals will understand )

Following are the main PROFILING categories(sub categories apply)

- Countries
- Educational/Accademic
- Professional
- Immigration & work status
- Employment & Income
- HMRC Tax Returns ( this is the real interesting bit )
- residency status

[Chess]

where is the 'link' from an official website providing these facts....?

Clearly, we dont wanna be misleading each other!

[sharat]

where is the 'link' from an official website providing these facts....?

Clearly, we dont wanna be misleading each other!

Chess,
I understand where you are coming from and I have no intention of misleading others :: if required I am even ready to stop posting further information.
This information is not in the public domain and still undergoing lot of refinement and calibration.
The report is purely made to aid decision makers and hopefully BITS & PIECES of it will get revealed in summer this year

Some part is really "SENSITIVE" to certain sections of the crowd (as you see from the earlier response) and trust me, I will be really careful in disclosing such info in this public board.

[Chess]

Sharat,

Thanx, but we canot be sure whether you are telling the truth. therefore it is best to assunme that your information is just hearsay....

..it is like saying you know where Osama Bin laden is but you cant disclose - so why should you be believed

therefore until we get definitive proof of your information/suggestions - we shall assume that they are 'wrong' until proved 'right'

Thank you!

[sharat]

Sharat,
..it is like saying you know where Osama Bin laden is but you cant disclose - so why should you be believed

If I tell you OSAMA is NOT hanging around in Bond Street mall or other central shopping areas in Leeds, will you believe it :: just kidding

[sharat]

AGE Vs SALARY profile Based on country

            20-25     25-30       30-35     35-40    40+
__________________________________________
INDIA |
CHINA|
USA |
S.AFR  |
OTHER |

[basis]

AGE Vs SALARY profile Based on country

            20-25     25-30       30-35     35-40    40+
__________________________________________
INDIA |
CHINA|
USA |
S.AFR  |
OTHER |

This is the first time I am seeing someone putting up a table here taking so much pain....

Anyway but I cant see any data there...........can anyone ? or is just a template

[sharat]

Template is now ENRICHED

This is compiled from the inbound PAYE payments received from the employers TR files and NI and the corresponding PCNs (Paye Coding Notice) issued by HMRC.

BLANK OR HYPHENS INDICATE no or less data available to perform the average computations

AGE Vs SALARY(in K) profile Based on country

            20-25     25-30       30-35     35-40    40+
__________________________________________
INDIA      -           -              29          33       -       
CHINA     23         33            32               
USA         -           36            39          46        56    
S.AFR       -           32           36           41
OTHER     29          28           35           34        43        

[John]

IMHO it still does not make any better sense now. The columns? 20-25, for example? Does that represent age? Or salary?

But based upon employers' PAYE EOY returns, rather than Self Assessment returns, that is much more sensible source of data.

But Paye Coding Notice? How would that be relevant to income level?

[sharat]

Further explanation on BLANKS and HYPHENS

HSMP Applicant ----> Name and DOB (common) <-- NI NUMBER
TAX OFFICE PAYE ---> NI NUMBER (Common ) <--- PCN

BLANKS or HYPHENS indicate no commonality references found in either cases for an individual while fetching his records from files.

[sharat]

20-25 represents age bracket

It may not make sense to YOU but it makes perfect sense to find out information, only if you know the internals of the following

* PAYE files
* NI numbers
* PCN and SA ISSUES/WITHDRAWALS & UTRs
** SA RETURNS

As a TAX CONSULTANT, you only have visibility to SA RETURNS** and how that ties up to an individual. PERFECTLY understandable to me

BUT UNFORTUNATELY, there is a much bigger world out there for information at FINGER TIPS and a Tax consultant will never have any VISIBILITY nor I wish to disclose such internal information in this public forum. Sorry that I couldn’t help.

IMHO it still does not make any better sense now. The columns? 20-25, for example? Does that represent age? Or salary?

But based upon employers' PAYE EOY returns, rather than Self Assessment returns, that is much more sensible source of data.

But Paye Coding Notice? How would that be relevant to income level?

[John]

As a TAX CONSULTANT, you only have visibility to SA RETURNS** and how that ties up to an individual.

Not sure how you could possibly know about my client base but my comment to your quoted words is ... not true! Visibility goes wider than just "SA RETURNS".

[sharat]

Back to the original topic

Some facts highlighted

* From the majority total of 55% of HSMP Indian passport holders, PAYE files only match 12%::which means, around 40-43 percentage did not have a legitimate employer that paid tax in 2004-05 on their behalf. This also accounts the possible DROP OUTS, who might have left UK to elsewhere.

* USA & South Africans, which accounts only 17% of the total approved HSMP holders stand as majority tax contributors as per the PAYE records - 68%

[John]

This also accounts the possible DROP OUTS, who might have left UK to elsewhere.

Or the Self-Employed.

[sharat]

There is another DETAILED report on it way showing self-employment.
The profile information pertains to those people paying tax via PAYE or Limited companies paid out salaries from the revenue.

Also note, in this country, the native British people who are really "HIGHLY SKILLED” come under IR35 (Inland Revenue ruling passed in 1999:: check the website for more info), which, actually stand against self-employed nature of work in all its intricacies.
So those who follow the rules will think the same is applicable to foreign HSMP holders.

I currently do not have the statistics for SEs to comment on this.

This also accounts the possible DROP OUTS, who might have left UK to elsewhere.

Or the Self-Employed.

[sharat]

Some more facts highlighted as per PAYE and PCN files -year 04/05

> 8% of USA nationals had more than 1 employer
> 14% of Chinese had 2 employers
> 19% of S.Africans had 2 employers
> 75% Indian passport holders had atleast 2 employers (correct mathematical count is 2.44)


HSMP Holders TOTAL TAXABLE EARNING** contribution shown as percentage by Country in Ascending order 2003-2004

>USA - 47%
>OTHERS - 18%
>S.AFRICA - 12%
>CHINA - 12%
>INDIA - 11%


**THE ABOVE INCLUDES TOTAL INCOME DECLARED IN SA RETURNS. FIGURES FOR 04/05 ARE NOT AVAILABLE YET.

What does the above statistics mean to you if you are an INDIAN::


* There were almost 6 Indians out of 10 approved HSMP HOLDERS - 04/05
* So naturally, one would expect the majority of tax contribution from them this year - we do not have the figures yet.
* BUT SADLY, Only the population remains:: look where the mass contribution came from in 03/04 - USA 47%
* THIS IS JUST like an OLYMPICS medal tally where the country with second most population in the world is still down under the bottom league. Call it a shame ? OR....

ISNT THIS MADNESS ABOUT JUST IMMIGRATION AND OBSESSION ABOUT A LIFE IN FOREIGN COUNTRY???....THINK YOU ALL EDUCATED AND QUALIFIED HIGHLY SKILLED PEOPLE ...
THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO YOU AND just my thoughts for MY COUNTRY fellows.

I'm not expecting any revolutionary changes by posting my thoughts out here based on what I see and gather….but this is REALLY REALLY pathetic for our country.