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ILR-JR UKBA saying wife not eligible as she hasn't spend 2yr

Only for queries regarding Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). Please use the EU Settlement Scheme forum for queries about settled status under Appendix EU

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farazfastian
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ILR-JR UKBA saying wife not eligible as she hasn't spend 2yr

Post by farazfastian » Tue May 18, 2010 4:31 pm

We're going to apply for ILR under JR in June but UKBA saying my wife can't because now I'm on Tier-1 visa and according to Tier-1 dependent rules she should spend 2 years in UK with me. I don't understand all this, if i'm elligible for the ILR under JR though i'm on Tier-1 why the same rule can't apply to my wife?
In fact someone on the boards did confirm me that i can apply with my wife. Here's the actual details:

Myself:
HSMP App Received 05 Dec,05
HSMP Refused 07 Dec,05
HSMP Approved 12 April,06 (after review)
Entered UK 13 Jul, 06
Tier-1 App Received 27 May,08
Tier-1 Approved 03 Jul,08


My wife:
Tier-1 Dependent Approved 25 Oct,08
Entered UK 30 Jan,10

Please advise.

Regards
Faraz

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Tue May 18, 2010 5:00 pm


geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Tue May 18, 2010 5:55 pm

Did your wife use VAF2 form to apply for EC, or VAF10? Reading this should help.

regards

farazfastian
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Post by farazfastian » Tue May 18, 2010 6:13 pm

I don't remember which form was it but i'm pretty sure it was Tier-1 dependent form. Now i'm really regreting why i didn't apply under JR on my visa extension as then my wife would have come here as HSMP dependent not Tier-1 dependent.
I had the option of both Tier-1 and HSMP-JR but i opted for Tier-1 :(

farazfastian
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Post by farazfastian » Tue May 18, 2010 6:15 pm

sushdmehta, do we have more successfull examples like you?
Is HSMP forum doing anything relating to this? I believe we should try to get something in written formUKBA by giving them references to JR ruling.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Tue May 18, 2010 6:26 pm

farazfastian wrote:sushdmehta, do we have more successfull examples like you?
See this post.
farazfastian wrote:Is HSMP forum doing anything relating to this? I believe we should try to get something in written formUKBA by giving them references to JR ruling.
Personal opinion, they have moved on to bigger things and seemingly aren't bothered about (remaining JR protected) migrants with individual issues.


regards

bani
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Post by bani » Tue May 18, 2010 6:55 pm

Did you apply as a new Tier1 in May 2008? Did you not just extend your HSMP visa? If it's an extension, even if your residence permit states "Tier 1-General", you are still covered by the JR. And your wife doesn't have to be here for 2 years to get ILR with you.

I realize there are conflicting stories on this board (about the 2 year requirement), but not at HSMP forum. Dependants get ILR with the main applicant. You just have to insist this to PEO personnel.

HSMP Forum has helped individual members that have had ILR problems. They have not moved on to bigger issues. But you have to bring up your issue to them, and this has not been an issue at HSMP forum.

1664
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Post by 1664 » Tue May 18, 2010 10:06 pm

I must have spent some good 10 minutes at the initial screening stage.
I also clearly recalled the post submitted by sushdmehta about his/her personal experience. I was also carrying the HSMP JR policy document.
The only thing I kept hearing from the guy at the other end saying her application is certainly going to be rejected due to the 2 year rule.
Now if I had still pushed and applied her as a dependent I am not sure of the outcome. But at that point when you think of the situation you are in - taking a chance does not appeal.

Atleast you could go ahead with your ILR but then your wife would have to apply for FLR(M) which is another £800 (approx) and after she has been in the UK for a total of 2 years she can then apply for her ILR. It's a longer route with more time and money involved atleast you know there is less risk involved than the former plan.

Good Luck.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Tue May 18, 2010 11:37 pm

bani wrote:HSMP Forum has helped individual members that have had ILR problems. They have not moved on to bigger issues. But you have to bring up your issue to them, and this has not been an issue at HSMP forum.
The case of UKBA (Visa Services) dictating dependents of HSMP JR protected migrants to apply for EC using VAF10 (instead of VAF2) and pay Tier 1 fees (instead of HSMP dependent fee, which is significantly lower) was raised and highlighted at the HSMP Forum discussion board .. with no response or interest from the management.

From a legal standpoint, VAF10 form is specified for Tier 1 dependents under immigration rules 319A-319K - wherein the residential requirement of 2 yrs. for dependents becomes applicable! But since HSMP JR protected migrants are not Tier 1 migrants and therefore not covered by Tier 1 immigration rules, EC applications by dependents should be made on VAF2 forms and must be accepted by UKBA. But UKBA (Visa Services) forces such dependents to apply for EC using the VAF10 forms and refuses to accept applications on VAF2 with HSMP dependent fee.

Under UK immigration law, dependents of HSMP migrants can qualify for ILR at the same time as the main migrant only if immigration rules 194-196D apply (And this is possible only when the main migrants are covered under immigration rules 135A - 135AH, as HSMP JR confirms). The moment a dependent of HSMP JR protected migrant uses VAF10 to apply for EC, he/she agrees to be treated under immigration rules 319A-319K, thus creating an issue (and room for misinterpretation) on how these dependents are to be treated when it comes to their eligibility for ILR.

IIRC, you are a moderator at their discussion forum. So, you can check with the management there as to why this issue wasn't deemed important enough even though this has affected the HSMP JR protected migrants and their families directly.

Like the OP here who has been advised by UKBA that his wife isn't eligible for ILR as she hasn't completed 2 years in the UK, another member was advised the same by the srceening clerk at the Croydon PEO and, on basis of that advice, the member decided to withdraw his wife's ILR application that day. I hope you'll apprise the HSMP Forum management of the situation and that they would agree to take this up with UKBA .. for the sake and benefit of the (few remaining) HSMP migrants.


regards

farazfastian
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Post by farazfastian » Wed May 19, 2010 1:05 pm

Thanks for the help guys. So the current conclusion is if your dependent came here using VAF10 form then they won't get ILR. Though this is completely ridiculous the main applicant also on pure Tier-1 but because they're protected under JR then they don't consider Tier-1 rules but for the dependents they're considering them. How stupid!

Now I'm really regretting on choosing Tier-1 over HSMP-JR on my extension, it costed me lot of money for both mine and my wife visa and now this whole situation on ILR :(

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Wed May 19, 2010 1:11 pm

farazfastian wrote:So the current conclusion is if your dependent came here using VAF10 form then they won't get ILR.
Not a conclusion, but perhaps this could be the basis on which UKBA may try to prove that dependents do not qualify for ILR at the same time as the main migrant .... just as they advised you.
sushdmehta wrote:The moment a dependent of HSMP JR protected migrant uses VAF10 to apply for EC, he/she agrees to be treated under immigration rules 319A-319K, thus creating an issue (and room for misinterpretation) on how these dependents are to be treated when it comes to their eligibility for ILR.

regards

farazfastian
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Post by farazfastian » Wed May 19, 2010 1:26 pm

I meant the current conclusion BUT very strangely we've a success case of gvamsimba where he even wasn't asked on her wife's Tier-1 dependent visa and i don't believe that they would have information that Oh she applied using VAF2 form so lets not create trouble for them.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Wed May 19, 2010 1:36 pm

farazfastian wrote:I meant the current conclusion BUT very strangely we've a success case of gvamsimba where he even wasn't asked on her wife's Tier-1 dependent visa and i don't believe that they would have information that Oh she applied using VAF2 form so lets not create trouble for them.
They do have access to such information in their system (your entire immigration history) .... like in my case the caseworker knew which form was used, date and even the fee paid (for dependent EC)!

As on date, I am aware of:
- 3 cases where dependents used VAF2 form, had Tier 1 stamp on passport and have received ILR without completing 2 years in UK.
- 1 case where dependent used VAF10 form, but had "HSMP Partner/Dependent" stamp on the passport and has received ILR without completing 2 years in UK.

regards
Last edited by geriatrix on Wed May 19, 2010 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

cheerfulkhan
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Post by cheerfulkhan » Wed May 19, 2010 1:38 pm

I have decided to go ahead with the application. What is the worst that is to happen in case her application gets refused? i will lose 150£ and she will apply for spouse visa. She has to do that in any case even if i don't apply for her along with me.

When i applied for my wife, we used VAF 10 form but we deposited the visa fee of HSMP dependent rather than tier 1-dependent.

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