UK Travel - 24 days only . Not consider Uplift ratio ??

[keepsmilinyaar]

Hi,

Thanks to all the members who have replied to my questions.
I still have a few more questions though.

Would appreciate if you can reply to this one as well.


During the twelve month period, I had travelled to the UK, for 24 days, in which I was paid per diem of 45 GBP and accomodation was borne by the company. I was recieved my Indian Salary as per the normal payroll in INR,.

My question is -
As this duration is Small (24), would I still have to ignore the uplift ratio for this duration. This duration of 24 is split up in two months, i.e. 17 days in one month and 7 days in the next month.

Would I have to show in the calculator and split up my earnings for the first 13 days of the first month in INR and apply the uplift ratio AND not apply the uplift ration for the 17 days of the month ?

Was hoping someone can confirm the above case, since I have my appoinmtne in two days and I just realised this scenario.

I had come across the following two statements in the case worker's manual
(Working in several countries in the period being claimed up to a maximum of twelve months
If the applicant has lived and worked in more than one country during the past fifteen months, the caseworker will normally assess the total income over the total period being claimed up to a maximum of twelve months, against the country where the applicant has spent the longest period, on a pro-rata basis. To pro rata the income a caseworker would use the following calculation:
Total earned income (from the country where the most time was spent) amount x twelve
Number of months worked there)


Those seconded overseas from their normal country of work.
Applicants who have been seconded overseas during the last fifteen months and whose salary continues to be paid in the normal manner by their employer should be assessed against the country where they have been working during their secondment. In order for us to establish which country code to consider their earnings against, the applicant should provide evidence of where they have been working and where their salary has been paid for the period they wish us to consider, up to a maximum of twelve months.

Also, can anyone explain the differeence between the two cases, since I believe following either one, would make a big difference.

Thanks for your advice and help.

[tvn_ramesh]

If you are not claiming any of the UK earnings then you are ok to use uplift ratio for all ur indian earnings

[keepsmilinyaar]

Thanks Ramesh,

I am not claiming any points for my UK Earnings.

However, would like to know your thoughts on this:

Last time I received a rejection because I had applied the uplift ratio to the entire twelve month period, during which I was in the UK for nine months.
Although I had not claimed any points for my UK earnings, they did not consider my uplift ratio for the nine month period of my Indian salary


Was hoping to know, that is this because the period of stay in the UK was more than 6 months, i.e. the country of maximum stay within the twelve month period ?

Thanks.

Regards
Rahul

[[iD]]

Thanks Ramesh,

I am not claiming any points for my UK Earnings.

However, would like to know your thoughts on this:

Last time I received a rejection because I had applied the uplift ratio to the entire twelve month period, during which I was in the UK for nine months.
Although I had not claimed any points for my UK earnings, they did not consider my uplift ratio for the nine month period of my Indian salary


Was hoping to know, that is this because the period of stay in the UK was more than 6 months, i.e. the country of maximum stay within the twelve month period ?
I'm sure they did not consider your uplift ratio for nine months because you were earning in the UK during those nine months
Thanks.

Regards
Rahul

Though I'd agree with Ramesh but since you've already had a rejection I'd suggest you to use the uplift ratio for the period you were in India. In this scenario you were in the UK for 24 days, so don't use the uplift ratio during those 24 days and use the uplift ratio for the rest. This way you can also claim UK earnings if you want to.

Also, you might already know that but you don't have to claim earnings for full 12 months, you can skip that 24 days period all together if you can afford to

[keepsmilinyaar]

Hi [iD]

Thanks for the your prompt response.
Really appreciate it.

Regards
Rahul

[Devanshi]

Salary is paid monthly on monthend. If you don't wish to consider 24 months peirod, will you prorate the earning of 6 days ? Bank statement will show full earning.

[keepsmilinyaar]

Sorry buddy.. didnt understand the statement.

Anyways. I have decided to wait. DOnt want to take the risk of another rejection on the same grounds. that would be the worst mistake of my life.

[geriatrix]

It is important to understand that income calculations are done on *calendar month* basis - not daily / weekly / fortnightly basis - when using monthly payslips.


regards

[Devanshi]

Dear Moderator,

I agree with your statement that earnings are considered for calender month. So what happens in this case, uplift ratio can't be applied to 6 days when some one was in india?

[keepsmilinyaar]

Just wanted to share this with you.

I recently spoke to a friend who earlier worked in the Canada VFS.
While she did not comment on what can be done. She suggested that the best I could do, without taking any risk would be to apply for an appointment, and prepare the cover letter and earnings WITH the UPLIFT ratio for that 24 day period. And ASK the person incharge of collecting your documents about what would be the best way forward. They are expected to provide you with the correct answer. And the best part is if you feel it doesnt work out, then you dont have to submit the documents OR even forego the VISA Fees, since the FEEs are only to be submitted if you are going ahead with the application.

Not sure how well this approach will go down with the moderators and sages.

Any comments??

[layman]

note # 132 of the guidance note clearly says - The country in which the applicant has physically undertaken the work, rather than his/her nationality, the currency payment is made in or the country in which payment is made, determines the income band against which we will assess the earnings

So, I would suggest do not apply the uplift ratio for that month. I have done the same for the 2 months I was in UK. Will let you know the outcome of my application done 2 days ago

[keepsmilinyaar]

Hi ,

I think there is more around the #132.
I came across this statement in caseworker's guidance manual:
Those seconded overseas from their normal country of work.
Applicants who have been seconded overseas during the last fifteen months and whose salary continues to be paid in the normal manner by their employer should be assessed against the country where they have been working during their secondment. In order for us to establish which country code to consider their earnings against, the applicant should provide evidence of where they have been working and where their salary has been paid for the period they wish us to consider, up to a maximum of twelve months.

Am sure thiis relevant to #132. The above evidence is gathered by looking at the VISA stamping dates, travel between the VISA start and end date.

BUT ANYWYAS,LAYMAN I REALLY HOPE YOUR CASE COMES THROUGH. IT SURELY WILL GIVE APPLICANTS MORE SURETY.

[Devanshi]

keepsmiling,

I also read that but I thinks that is not valid now because -
1. this was from HSMP days
2. Point based calculator recognizes earning in each country separately.

[keepsmilinyaar]

Hi Devanshi,

would you know where I could find the latest CaseWoker's manual for Tier 1 General Visa, so I could just verify that the case I outlined was in the times of HSMP.
Am afraid that I am not compelled to believe you are right, since as I mentioned earlier in the post, I have already recieved a rejection on the same basis and I had applied for Tier 1.

These were the wordings in my rejection letter,

“You have claimed 30 points for working with XXX from March 08 to Feb 09. However I note that as you have been paid in Indian rupees, you have applied the ratio uplift to your whole earnings of INR 413408.83 received during this period. However, you spent eight of the twelve months working in the UK. We therefore do not apply the ration uplift to this period of earnings. I have calculated your earnings as follows:
In the month of March 2008, while working in India you earned INR 28756 using the ONADA rate of exchange – 0.01257 and the ration uplift your earnings for this month equals ₤ 1915. From April 2008 to December 2008 you have earned INR 313588 using the ONADA ROE – 0.01404 but not the uplift as you were working in the UK this equals ₤ 4402. And for January & February 09 you earned INR 71064, using the ONADA ROW 0.01375 and the ration uplift as you were working in India this equals ₤ 5178. Your earnings for the period = ₤ 11,495. Therefore no points have been awarded to the applicant on earnings. "


Any thoughts?

Regards
Rahul

[geriatrix]

There is no Tier 1 (General) caseworker guidance (at least available to general public). Follow the Tier 1 (General) policy guidance.

In your case, the calculation should be:
1. Period spent in UK (8 months) = Income earned in UK + Income deposited in India (without uplift ratio).
2. Period spent in India (4 months) = Income earned in India (using uplift ratio).
Add the two and that's your earned income for the 12 months.


regards

[layman]

well, if te reason has been made very clear in the rejection letter, whats the confusion now? Do not apply uplift for earnings during UK period. Better safe than sorry would be the mantra.

[keepsmilinyaar]

I think I can end this thread now.
I reread the messages and concur to what you guys said.

I didnt read the "NOT Apply UPLIFT Ratio" part on one of Layman's replies.

Sorry for the confusion.

[layman]

Rahul aka keepsmiling,

thanks for posting the rejection reply. Gives me some confidence that the case workers can do some re-calculations and do not just reject applications because our earning calculations do not seem correct.

one question, had you used different exchange rates for the UK/India periods even though you were paid in INR? Or you had used single end of 12 month exchange rate but the case worker changed that during re-calculation? This is important to understand how note #129 can be interpreted.

[keepsmilinyaar]

Hi Layman,

Thing is my application was rejected because I HAD considered a single uplift ratio for all the twelve months, which was incorrect.

However, when making calculations, the caseworker has definitely used different exchange rates. I believe this method is quite prominently worked out in other threads on this forum. About using the end of month exchange rate for the duration of work in another country.

Hope this helps.

Regards
Rahul

[sagarmohane]

Same thing has happened with me.

My application is also get rejected saying

- You have claimed 25 points for earnings of 49,275.88 earn in the UK but paid in India.
- The evidence you have provided is in the form of wage slips from April 2009 to March 2010 from XXXX and you bakn statments from XXX.
- You entered the UK on 06 Jan 2010.
- We have therefore calculated your earnings (with uplift) from April 2009 to December 2009
- We have also calculated your earnings (no uplift) from Jan 2010 to March 2010

I've a doubt, can I apply again when I'm back in India?
or I just need to wait for one whole year once I'm back in India?

[layman]

Hi Layman,

However, when making calculations, the caseworker has definitely used different exchange rates. I believe this method is quite prominently worked out in other threads on this forum. About using the end of month exchange rate for the duration of work in another country.

Regards
Rahul

hmm. I have not done that.Used a single rate for India and UK presence. Will get 5 points less for earnings due to different rates but am still OK since was claiming 80 points for attributes. Hope the caseworker just does not reject for using single exchange rate.

[keepsmilinyaar]

Sorry about the rejection. It is devastating though. But since reapplications are allowed and you know the mistake, just don't make it again.

You could apply from anywhere again, but making sure you have the sufficient points this time, by collating all your earnings from various sources (subjected to their conformance to the previous earnings' requirement) both India and UK ( am sure you would be receiving something in the UK).

Would suggest you browse through more posts on this forum, to get to know how you need to show your earnings from both India and UK. there is no dearth of such posts here.

Gud luck