Benefits of EU membership to Ireland

[koded]

I was just curious and I come across this website as regard to benefits of EU membership to Ireland.
http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/ireland_in_ ... ex1_en.htm
And i was just wondering what is all this noise about immigrants in Ireland especially family member of EU citizen.
I calculated about 1458 marriages of non Eu citizens to EU citizens according to DOJ's statistics. Is this number really alarming rate that will make Irish immigration office to introduce hard measures on 4EUFam applicants?
Are they not aware of their benefits from being a member of EU?
I also read somewhere in Irishtimes where the minister is saying that they are not heartless and that they have immigration laws. Is not heartless for introducing measures which will bring hardship to family member of EU citizen? Do they really have immigration law that truly work?

[walrusgumble]

I was just curious and I come across this website as regard to benefits of EU membership to Ireland.
http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/ireland_in_ ... ex1_en.htm
And i was just wondering what is all this noise about immigrants in Ireland especially family member of EU citizen.
I calculated about 1458 marriages of non Eu citizens to EU citizens according to DOJ's statistics. Is this number really alarming rate that will make Irish immigration office to introduce hard measures on 4EUFam applicants?
Are they not aware of their benefits from being a member of EU?
I also read somewhere in Irishtimes where the minister is saying that they are not heartless and that they have immigration laws. Is not heartless for introducing measures which will bring hardship to family member of EU citizen? Do they really have immigration law that truly work?

there problem is sir, not the amount of marriages, but the genuine deep suspicion that some of these marriages when one looks at the immigration status of the couple and the serious contrasting religion, age, culture and language differences, and length of time together, are a bit dodgy - that of course, sadly could sound horrible nazism and dearly beloved and sterotypical - let me make it clear now that it not the intention. A more fully report could give a better view outlining some of the factors that I have pointed out. The sad part is, it treats the genuines as criminals and baddies, which is unfair.

Do they have immigration laws?, well yes. Are they effective? GOd no?, are they arbritary? yes. do we have a skilled immigration department and immigration officers? Please do not make me laugh. Its kind of not really that law thats the problem, its those who implement it. Does the Minsiters have an excuse? Ye have had a decade or so of high volume movement within the country, so no, they can't use the usual excuse anymore. Even adopting what the UK or other countries procedures could be a good start.


one tip, though, never try and remind any particular country of the benefits of eu membership. SOme countries (who have a regular trait of voting no in Brussels) tried that during Lisbon 1 and made Pro Lisbon voters were annoyed, and look now, who says it was a good idea.

[koded]

[quote="walrusgumblethere

problem is sir, not the amount of marriages, but the genuine deep suspicion that some of these marriages when one looks at the immigration status of the couple and the serious contrasting religion, age, culture and language differences, and length of time together, are a bit dodgy - that of course, sadly could sound horrible nazism and dearly beloved and sterotypical - let me make it clear now that it not the intention. A more fully report could give a better view outlining some of the factors that I have pointed out. The sad part is, it treats the genuines as criminals and baddies, which is unfair.

[/quote]
But do you think the way they are going about reforming the system is the best way. Personally, I am against any fraud in marriage. Marriage should be an institution which should be free of all fraud.
I think there are many other ways of minimizing sham marriages without affecting the innocent ones.
Those they are trying to prevent may even be the ones that have money to sort their ways out.

[IrishTom]

The European Court found that our law in relation to using marriage to assist illegal immigration was contrary to the EU's "freedom of movement" laws. Immediately after the European Court ruling, the number of apparent marriages of convenience between illegal immigrants and girls from Baltic states shot up from 544 cases in 2008 to 1,100 cases last year.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analy ... 41169.html

[koded]

The European Court found that our law in relation to using marriage to assist illegal immigration was contrary to the EU's "freedom of movement" laws. Immediately after the European Court ruling, the number of apparent marriages of convenience between illegal immigrants and girls from Baltic states shot up from 544 cases in 2008 to 1,100 cases last year.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analy ... 41169.html

I dont believe number of marriages should be the problem here. It is the responsibility of the ministry to investigate and check every marriages perform in Ireland by foreigners. Also Residence card can be revoked if the marriage is found to be "sham"

[IrishTom]

I dont believe number of marriages should be the problem here. It is the responsibility of the ministry to investigate and check every marriages perform in Ireland by foreigners. Also Residence card can be revoked if the marriage is found to be "sham"

I would bet that in and around 60% of those partnerships are marriages of convenience. I am not a gambler, but I like an investment and when I see most marriages are Nigerians-Pakistanis-3rd world nationals marrying Latvians-Lithuanians-Polish-Slovaks I sense something is amiss.

How can these marriages of convenience be eradicated? Simple. Lock up a few of these Baltic/Eastern european brazzers and deport the Non EU scammers. They will soon get the message. A girl behind bars for a month and a lad being deported in chains will send the world a message - we Irish take no crap from scammers anymore.

10,000 is not worth your freedom.

I am not aiming this post at you, Koded. I wish you and your partner all the best during your time in this nation. Hopefully we get a decent summer this year so one can really enjoy the natural beauty of this small rock. My comments are aimed at the scammers.

Good luck.

[koded]

I dont believe number of marriages should be the problem here. It is the responsibility of the ministry to investigate and check every marriages perform in Ireland by foreigners. Also Residence card can be revoked if the marriage is found to be "sham"

I would bet that in and around 60% of those partnerships are marriages of convenience. I am not a gambler, but I like an investment and when I see most marriages are Nigerians-Pakistanis-3rd world nationals marrying Latvians-Lithuanians-Polish-Slovaks I sense something is amiss.

How can these marriages of convenience be eradicated? Simple. Lock up a few of these Baltic/Eastern european brazzers and deport the Non EU scammers. They will soon get the message. A girl behind bars for a month and a lad being deported in chains will send the world a message - we Irish take no crap from scammers anymore.

10,000 is not worth your freedom.

I am not aiming this post at you, Koded. I wish you and your partner all the best during your time in this nation. Hopefully we get a decent summer this year so one can really enjoy the natural beauty of this small rock. My comments are aimed at the scammers.

Good luck.

Everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion.
Well, you got it wrong too but you are entitle to your opinion. Most marriages in this world are with purpose. People married for so many reasons. But what I believe is that there should be genuine intention and that there should be love between this marriage.
I give you example. I think the Swedish girl (maid) married Tiger wood for a purpose but dont you think that she love Tiger? IrishTom can marry a girl because she is pretty or beautiful but what if something happen to her beauty. Will IrishTom abandon this lady for that? Meaning there is no love. There are so many examples.
So what Irish Immigration should do is to investigate every marriages carry out by foreigners in the state. Also, Marriages can be check in this way, on a good day will this Pakiskian or Nigerian man get married to the eastern european girl if everything are to be ok with him? Not just for the purpose of immigration.
The simple truth is that Irish immigration are relutant in doing their jobs. The same way European union is failiing to prevent mass illegal immigrants that are risking their lives everyday in the shore of Europe.

[9jeirean]

Just before we get distracted by who should or should not marry who, the question is, is this enough reason for the minister to make such illegal change to an EU law? This would appear to be the natural tendencies to how problems are addressed in this country. From what we know and also highlighted in the link above, the Gardai appear to be investigating the suspected cases anyway. So why not strengthen their operations so they can investigate and annul proven scam cases on time and leave alone innocent young couples whose right is now clearly being violated.

Justice Minister Dermot Ahern, who has been lobbying support from other EU justice ministers for changes to EU law, commented recently that the "love affair between Pakistan and the Baltic States has no sign of abating".

BTW, Dermot Ahern should know better than throwing around such overtly stereotypical statements. If our ministster of Justice can be so reckless in his generalisation, what hope do poor migrants have in the hands of often clueless 'immigration officers'.

[walrusgumble]

I dont believe number of marriages should be the problem here. It is the responsibility of the ministry to investigate and check every marriages perform in Ireland by foreigners. Also Residence card can be revoked if the marriage is found to be "sham"

I would bet that in and around 60% of those partnerships are marriages of convenience. I am not a gambler, but I like an investment and when I see most marriages are Nigerians-Pakistanis-3rd world nationals marrying Latvians-Lithuanians-Polish-Slovaks I sense something is amiss.

How can these marriages of convenience be eradicated? Simple. Lock up a few of these Baltic/Eastern european brazzers and deport the Non EU scammers. They will soon get the message. A girl behind bars for a month and a lad being deported in chains will send the world a message - we Irish take no crap from scammers anymore.

10,000 is not worth your freedom.

I am not aiming this post at you, Koded. I wish you and your partner all the best during your time in this nation. Hopefully we get a decent summer this year so one can really enjoy the natural beauty of this small rock. My comments are aimed at the scammers.

Good luck.

That is going to be very difficult. Not all relationship wait for 1-5 years. I bet you now many couples from yesteryears in Ireland who married rather quickly, cough shotgun - do the right thing marriages cough lol. As I said before, we will only really see if our fears are genuine in the next 2-3 years (will they still be living together)

It is absolutely possible that an asylum seeking Nigerian or other comes here and falls genuinely head over heals in love with a person of a particular marriage. What happened if it was you? Would you want a nanny state interferring into your private life in light of the said nanny state being extremely liberal in other areas of law and procudure and market?

We have to remember too, we all have a human right to marry.

[CheGuevara]

I dont believe number of marriages should be the problem here. It is the responsibility of the ministry to investigate and check every marriages perform in Ireland by foreigners. Also Residence card can be revoked if the marriage is found to be "sham"

I would bet that in and around 60% of those partnerships are marriages of convenience. I am not a gambler, but I like an investment and when I see most marriages are Nigerians-Pakistanis-3rd world nationals marrying Latvians-Lithuanians-Polish-Slovaks I sense something is amiss.

How can these marriages of convenience be eradicated? Simple. Lock up a few of these Baltic/Eastern european brazzers and deport the Non EU scammers. They will soon get the message. A girl behind bars for a month and a lad being deported in chains will send the world a message - we Irish take no crap from scammers anymore.

10,000 is not worth your freedom.

I am not aiming this post at you, Koded. I wish you and your partner all the best during your time in this nation. Hopefully we get a decent summer this year so one can really enjoy the natural beauty of this small rock. My comments are aimed at the scammers.

Good luck.

That is going to be very difficult. Not all relationship wait for 1-5 years. I bet you now many couples from yesteryears in Ireland who married rather quickly, cough shotgun - do the right thing marriages cough lol. As I said before, we will only really see if our fears are genuine in the next 2-3 years (will they still be living together)

It is absolutely possible that an asylum seeking Nigerian or other comes here and falls genuinely head over heals in love with a person of a particular marriage. What happened if it was you? Would you want a nanny state interferring into your private life in light of the said nanny state being extremely liberal in other areas of law and procudure and market?

We have to remember too, we all have a human right to marry.

Well said.. The government is incompetent and corrupt

[walrusgumble]

I dont believe number of marriages should be the problem here. It is the responsibility of the ministry to investigate and check every marriages perform in Ireland by foreigners. Also Residence card can be revoked if the marriage is found to be "sham"

I would bet that in and around 60% of those partnerships are marriages of convenience. I am not a gambler, but I like an investment and when I see most marriages are Nigerians-Pakistanis-3rd world nationals marrying Latvians-Lithuanians-Polish-Slovaks I sense something is amiss.

How can these marriages of convenience be eradicated? Simple. Lock up a few of these Baltic/Eastern european brazzers and deport the Non EU scammers. They will soon get the message. A girl behind bars for a month and a lad being deported in chains will send the world a message - we Irish take no crap from scammers anymore.

10,000 is not worth your freedom.

I am not aiming this post at you, Koded. I wish you and your partner all the best during your time in this nation. Hopefully we get a decent summer this year so one can really enjoy the natural beauty of this small rock. My comments are aimed at the scammers.

Good luck.

That is going to be very difficult. Not all relationship wait for 1-5 years. I bet you now many couples from yesteryears in Ireland who married rather quickly, cough shotgun - do the right thing marriages cough lol. As I said before, we will only really see if our fears are genuine in the next 2-3 years (will they still be living together)

It is absolutely possible that an asylum seeking Nigerian or other comes here and falls genuinely head over heals in love with a person of a particular marriage. What happened if it was you? Would you want a nanny state interferring into your private life in light of the said nanny state being extremely liberal in other areas of law and procudure and market?

We have to remember too, we all have a human right to marry.

Well said.. The government is incompetent and corrupt

I would not go as strong as you. Incompetent, well after 13 years in power, fairn enough. But corrupt? Do you know what "corruption" means? Even a government being anti immigrant does not neccessarily equate corruption, paricularily with many of its citizens favouring some form of reform. Look at your own country before throwing stones

[Ben]

But corrupt?

Ah come on now, this government and it's servants are very corrupt. You've your head in the sand if you think otherwise man.

In this example, a guy claims that his Aunt works in the passport office and sorted his passport in a week. Considering every other poor sod has to wait a month or more lately, I think that's outrageous.

[acme4242]

But corrupt?

After suffering at the hands of Lying self-serving, John O'Donoghue, (removed Post-Nuptial Citizenship, except to Irish Public servants)
Bertie "I've No Bank Account" Ahern,
One thing for Charlie Haughey, while he was the master of corruption, he didn't introduce draconian immigration laws against Irish Citizens and their families.
He didn't do the wrongs that O'Donoghue and Herr McDowell, have done.

Deputies will recall the situation that arose in the Irish Embassy in London, involving the issue of Irish passports by Embassy staff, based on bogus marriages certs. The individual concerned was convicted of fraud and given a custodial sentence. I am certainly not saying any embassy official is involved in any of these cases. However, I am saying that such cases are still arising and the truth is that, like it or not, the extent of the fraud will never be fully known.

[walrusgumble]

But corrupt?

Ah come on now, this government and it's servants are very corrupt. You've your head in the sand if you think otherwise man.

In this example, a guy claims that his Aunt works in the passport office and sorted his passport in a week. Considering every other poor sod has to wait a month or more lately, I think that's outrageous.

Ben. When you actually find what the legal defintion of "corruption" is and the indregiendents required for corruption, then we will entertain this conversation. Jesus, I am surprised you haven't thrown in that they are dearly beloved too.

Have you ever heard about politicans and other bodies running to the passport office to prioritise a passport application for an up and coming Irish soccer international? Was that "corruption"