Effect of new EU Visa Code on Schengen Visa Applications

[scrudu]

Just wondering if the new EU Visa Codewill have any actual effect on Schengen Visa applications for non-EU spouses of European citizens.

My husband (Indonesian) has a stamp 4 (spouse of Irish) permit to live in Ireland since 2006. He's had 8 Schengen Visas in the last 4 years, each requiring 2 visits to the relevant Embassy (drop off app and pick up passport). Each time he's applied to the German Embassy (3 times now) he's only been granted a permit for the exact duration of the visit (as per flight details) despite requesting a multiple entry visa each time. Obviously this whole process is pretty onerous and time consuming and results in us taking less trips to Europe due to the fact we have to foreplan everything (book flights & accom before applying for visa 1 mth before). It's a pain in the b**t also as it requires a lot of time off work.

From what I've read in new EU Visa Code rules, if you can show that you travel often to EU and have complied with visa conditions in the past, then you should be granted a longer Schengen Visa. How that will be implemented I have no idea.

* Third-country nationals holding a long-stay visa issued by a Member State are allowed to move freely in the territory of Member States under the same conditions as the holder of a residence permit.

The Visa Code will abolish the "D+C" visa (i.e. a long stay visa allowing the holder to circulate in the territory of Member States the first 3 months of his stay on the basis of the national long stay visa).

Because of the abolishment of the D+C visa a new Regulation amending the Convention Implementing the Schengen Agreement and Regulation (EC) No 562/2006 as regards movement of persons with a long-stay visa has been drawn up and is to apply at the same date as the Visa Code.

The Regulation will allow third-country nationals holding a long-stay "D" visa issued by a Member State to move freely in the territory of Member States for 90 days in any 180-day period, under the same conditions as the holder of a residence permit.

This will put an end to the difficulties third-country nationals had to face when legally staying in a Member State on the basis of a D visa and would restore the basic philosophy underlying the area without internal borders, i.e. that a person can travel within that area for short stays with the document on the basis of which he or she is legally present in a Member State.

Chaper 4, Article 24 states:

Without prejudice to Article 12(a), multiple-entry visas shall be issued with a period of validity between six months and five years, where the following conditions are met:

(a) the applicant proves the need or justifies the intention to travel frequently and/or regularly, in particular due to his occupational or family status, such as business persons, civil
servants engaged in regular official contacts with Member States and EU institutions, representatives of civil society organisations travelling for the purpose of educational training, seminars and conferences, family members of citizens of the Union, family members of third-country
nationals legally residing in Member States and seafarers; and 15.9.2009 EN Official Journal of the European Union L 243/13

(b) the applicant proves his integrity and reliability, in particular the lawful use of previous uniform visas or visas with limited territorial validity, his economic situation in the country of origin and his genuine intention to leave the territory of the Member States before the expiry of the visa applied for.

Has anyone applied since the new Visa Rules came into force? Were you granted a lengthier visa as a result. Do people agree that I'm reading this correctly?

[scrudu]

Anyone any ideas about this new Visa Code?

[acme4242]

we touched on this before, here
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... highlight=

I tried without luck, to find some straight forward written visa rules for the treatment of EU family members, specifically related to
Visa class
multi-entry
visa duration

Sadly this new visa code adds little. e.g. Multi-entry shall be issued IF
"The applicant proves his integrity and reliability"
This is too much discretion to give to certain embassies. this allows them to reject all multi-entry applications automatically.
And I fail to see why this condition should be applied to EU Citizens and their family who have an automatic right of entry anyway.

The Multi-entry visa guideline has come up before, the EU commission considers the obligation to afford 'every facility' to mean multi-entry.
I included the commission correspondence related to a complaint against Ireland.

Legal assessment
Conditions and time frames for issuing visas

This obligation to afford 'every facility' to family members of EU citizens also, in the
Commission's view, relates to the nature of the visa issued. When it is clear that the person in
question has to travel frequently in a given Member State in the context of exercising his right
to free movement, he should be issued with a multiple-entry visa with a long period of
validity. The time frame for issuing such a visa should also be sufficiently rapid to comply
with the obligation to afford 'every facility'.

However these guidelines of "every facility" is all too vague and does not quote minimum privileges, there are no straight forward written visa rules for EU family members.
Except the 2004/38/EC statement that the visa must be free.

You may notice, that even this fact is missing, the new visa code fails to mention that the visa is free for EU family members.

[scrudu]

Thanks for attaching that thread acme!

Yeah it's mind boggling they way they make the Directives so ambiguous. I intend to enclose the Directive with a cover letter requesting a MultiEntry visa citing the 9 previous Schengens (showing intent to travel), Spouse of Irish Permit (showing reason to travel) and entry/exit stamps showing adherence to previous Schengen Rules (showing integrity and reliability).

I've little doubt that the German Embassy will do their usual and give a Schengen Visa for the exact 4 day duration of this next trip

It's mental that despite the fact that when travelling together the non-EU spouse is entitled to enter the country even with no visa, but if you apply for a visa the list of documents is still so long and includes things like flight and hotel bookings.

We'll see what they say next week, but I also intent to forward this to the EU Commission to see what if any action they will take.

[acme4242]

Hi scrudu

Two useful supporting documents to print and include with the EU directive when you give it to the Embassy.
Highlight with yellow marker the bits about Member State consular officials may not request airline tickets and hotel bookings.
And just ask for them to clarify if this is correct. The goal is to make them think and write a reply.
Good luck.


http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/faq/fr ... _ec_en.pdf

EDIT: link changed on Commission website, old link does not work anymore
old dead link = http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/ ... _ec_en.pdf

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... FIN:EN:PDF


===================================================================================
COMMUNICATION FROM THE COMMISSION TO THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND THE COUNCIL
on guidance for better transposition and application of Directive 2004/38/EC on the
right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within
the territory of the Member States.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... FIN:EN:PDF

Press Release July 2nd 2009 >here<
Short Introduction >here<
Download Actual New Guidelines >here<

As the right to be issued with an entry visa is derived from the family link with the EU
citizen, Member States may require only the presentation of a valid passport and evidence
of the family link (and also dependency, serious health grounds, durability of partnerships,
where applicable). No additional documents, such as a proof of accommodation, sufficient
resources, an invitation letter or return ticket, can be required.

===================================================================================
Right of Union citizens and their family members to
move and reside freely within the Union
Guide on how to get the best out of Directive 2004/38/EC

http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/faq/fr ... _ec_en.pdf

Documents that can be required when applying for the visa

The right of entry of your third country family members is derived
from their family ties with you, a Union citizen. All the Member
State consular officials can ask for is their passport and a
document establishing their family ties with you, such as
marriage or birth certificate and proof of dependence, where
applicable. Your family members cannot be asked to present
documents such as travel tickets, employment certificate, pay slips,
bank statements, proof of accommodation and means of subsistence
or a medical certificate.

===================================================================================

http://acme.posterous.com/link-to-eu-we ... f-european

[scrudu]

Brilliant. Thanks Acme. I have those printed out and highlighted ready to submit. I just don't know how far we can push it considering we need the visa so we can travel at the end of June. This is his 4th time applying at the German Embassy and each time they have required proof of hotel and flight booking (illegal or not). As you can imagine the Germans are sticklers for detail and usually do a checklist down the items that are required.

They have updated their "Spouse of EU Citizen" documents since the new Visa Code was introduced, but only to add more rules (about passport duration). Current requirements for spouses of EU Citizens: Information on a Short Stay Schengen Visa for Spouse of EU Citizen

1. Application Form
2. Applicants Passport Photo
3. Applicants Passport
4. Applicants Irish Re-entry Visa
5. Applicants GNIB Card
6. Proof of address in Ireland
7. Proof of address in Germany (hotel booking or notarised letter from host) for applicant and EU Spouse
8. Return Ticket for applicant and EU Spouse
9. Marriage Certificate

I think all item in red are illegal to request considering the guidelines in EU Directive 2004/38/EC.

[pierre75]

Acme,

You asked me if there are real discriminations for french-3rd countries families under french law or under EU law.

Yes, plenty of them but it is difficult for me to write in english ... Do you want a first list in French ?

But please, try to find this 1999 document if you have people in the European Parliament :

Report from the Commission to the Council and the European Parliament on the implementation of Directives 90/364, 90/365 and 93/96 - (Right of residence).
/* COM/99/0127 final */

It contains what the member states want to change (limits of public order, how long time maximum to wait, documents to show, this and that ...). It was acting as the real guidelines before 2004/38 and it is still working and the ambiguous guidelines of july 2009 still refer to it.

But no more available from the EU websites ...

If you get it, you understand what they really want to change and you can fight them.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?val= ... 10&hwords=

It goes with that :

European Parliament resolution on the report from the Commission to the Council and the European Parliament on the implementation of Directives 90/364/EEC, 90/365/EEC and 93/96/EEC (right of residence) and on the communication from the Commission to the Council and the European Parliament on the special measures concerning the movement and residence of citizens of the Union which are justified on grounds of public policy, public security or public health (COM(1999) 127, COM(1999) 372 - C5-0177/1999, C5-0178/1999 - 1999/2157(COS))

Official Journal C 135 , 07/05/2001 P. 0189 - 0193

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Result.do?dire ... nstruments cited: 51999DC0127

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Result.do?dire ... 1999DC0127

And here is the resolution from the EU Parliament ( 5 pages ... ! ) :

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 193:EN:PDF

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 193:EN:PDF

[scrudu]

FYI: I complained to Solvit about this, and this is what they said:

The Irish SOLVIT Centre have consulted with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform regarding your SOLVIT complaint.

The Department of Justice have informed us that a Stamp 4 and a Stamp 4EUFAM are both considered a residency card. However, Stamp 4 does not come under Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC. As the non-EU spouse of an Irish citizen, your husband's residency application was looked at under Irish Law, namely the Immigration Act, 2004, and not European Law, Directive 2004/38/EC.

In this instance, the Irish SOLVIT Centre cannot bring a case against Germany as the Irish Stamp 4 residency card is not a residency card according to Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC, and so the German authority are correct in requiring your husband to complete the full tourist visa form.

The Irish SOLVIT Centre pointed out to the Department of Justice, that the European Directive does not distinguish between Irish and other EU citizens and that issuing a Stamp 4 residency card to third country spouses of Irish citizens was causing problems for them when travelling within the EU. However, the position is as set out above. The Irish SOLVIT Centre may raise this issue with the Department of Justice again in the future.

I regret that SOLVIT could not be of assistance in your case.

Kind Regards

[acme4242]

hi scrudu
can you please also include the complaint e-mail you sent to Solvit,
so we see what they are replying to.
I think this is either a fob off, or there is genuine misunderstanding
of 2004/38/EC rights within solvit Ireland.

As a Irish Citizen, who wishes to visit Germany with their spouse, your
spouses application for a German visa must be handled under
2004/38/EC As simple as that.
The fact you are resident in Ireland under Irish National law is irrelevant.
If you where resident outside the EU, and applied for a German visa, it
also comes under 2004/38/EC.

The following reply from Solvit is completely wrong, and this is a cause for concern

In this instance, the Irish SOLVIT Centre cannot bring a case against
Germany as the Irish Stamp 4 residency card is not a residency card
according to Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC, and so the German
authority are correct in requiring your husband to complete the full tourist
visa form.

While you must apply for a German Visa for your spouse, this application
must be handled under 2004/38/EC. You must be afforded every facility
You are a beneficiary of EU law insofar as you are an Irish Citizen who
wishes to visit Germany.
The EU commission also have a SignPost service, who are suppose to
analyses the legal grounds of such complaints.
http://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/fron ... dex_en.htm

I have not had a great experience with Solvit >myself<

[scrudu]

I agree 100% with what you are saying Acme, but I just don't know how to get the German (or other EU) Embassies to listen when it comes to standing in their offices citing the Directive. We've been here before and it ended up in a standoff of either "produce the documentation, or get no visa". We ended up showing them the documents they required even though they aren't allowed ask for them.

The issue I sent to Solvit was as follows:

I am an Irish citizen living in Ireland with my husband who is an Indonesian Citizen. He was issued with a D-Spouse visa and on entering Ireland was issued with a GNIB Stamp 4 card (perm residency).

My husband and I wish to travel together to Germany in the coming months. We enquired via the German Embassy wesite about Visa requirements. Information is held at: http://www.dublin.diplo.de/Vertretung/d ... =Daten.pdf

This states "If your Garda Card is a "4EUFAM" you do not need a visa to visit Germany. You should have your Garda Card, Marriage Certificate and your EU Spouses Passport when travelling on your own". All others (including non-EU spouses of Irish citizens) are required to submit a host of documentation of the proposed trip.

The only people issued with a "Stamp 4 EUFAM" are the spouses of other EU citizens (i.e. not Irish citizens), as the spouses of Irish citizens are issued with "Stamp 4" visas. This means that non-EU spouses of Irish citizens are treated differently than non-EU spouses of other EU citizens (e.g. French etc.).

I find this grossly unfair. This means that my husband has to book all accommodation/flights in advance, and then apply for a visa submitting a lot of information, just to accompany his EU spouse for travel through the EU.

The response from Solvit to this matter is above. I've now sent a 2nd letter of complaint citing the documents you listed above:

I am an Irish citizen resident in Ireland with my husband who is an Indonesian Citizen. He has “Stamp 4â€

[Ben]

The Germans and Solvit are correct in this case, scrudu.

The exemption of the requirement to obtain an entry visa is for family members who are in possession of a valid Residence Card described in Article 10 of the Directive.

No breach of EC law has occurred. You may think this is unfair, and so do I, but it's not unlawful.

Itulah kehidupan.

[scrudu]

Ben: I thought it was pretty ambiguous and open to interpretation in the Directive itself, but the 2 documents (Guidance on Directive 2004/38/EC, Guide to Directive 2004/38/EC) are both pretty clear on what is meant. (i.e. the rules apply to all non-EU spouses of EU citizens) What I'm not sure about is whether the Embassies/States have to implement anything in either of those 2 guides or not.

It was clearly not what was intended when the Directive was written. There's no reason why a spouse of an EU citizen living in the EU citizens home country should be treated differently than the non-EU spouse of an EU citizen living abroad. The latter would form a MUCH smaller number than the former, and I can't believe they wrote those parts of this EU directive simply to refer to EU citizens resident in other EU states.

It's strange too, as they seem to have implemented some parts of the Directive, e.g. it's free for non-EU spouse of EU citizens to apply for Schengen (no so for other non-EU applicants), accelerated process (no so for other non-EU applicants), shortened list of documents required (no so for other non-EU applicants), no charge on visa application (no so for other non-EU applicants), but not others.

[Ben]

You make valid points and I agree with you. The problem is the wording of the Directive:

For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.

So if a Residence Card referred to in § 10 is not held, Member States are entitled to uphold the requirement to obtain an entry visa.

This is yet another example of a part of the Directive which is not well-written and leaves, as you quite rightly say, family members of Union citizens open to discrimination - something that, ironically, the Directive sets out to quash.

[acme4242]

Ben: I thought it was pretty ambiguous and open to interpretation in the Directive itself, but the 2 documents (Guidance on Directive 2004/38/EC, Guide to Directive 2004/38/EC) are both pretty clear on what is meant. (i.e. the rules apply to all non-EU spouses of EU citizens) What I'm not sure about is whether the Embassies/States have to implement anything in either of those 2 guides or not.

It was clearly not what was intended when the Directive was written. There's no reason why a spouse of an EU citizen living in the EU citizens home country should be treated differently than the non-EU spouse of an EU citizen living abroad. The latter would form a MUCH smaller number than the former, and I can't believe they wrote those parts of this EU directive simply to refer to EU citizens resident in other EU states.

It's strange too, as they seem to have implemented some parts of the Directive, e.g. it's free for non-EU spouse of EU citizens to apply for Schengen (no so for other non-EU applicants), accelerated process (no so for other non-EU applicants), shortened list of documents required (no so for other non-EU applicants), no charge on visa application (no so for other non-EU applicants), but not others.

There are 2 issues here

1) As Ben says, the requirement to have a visa. Yes, your spouse
needs a visa, this is not the fault of the EU or Germany,
This is actually the fault of Ireland.

2) However the procedure to obtain such visa, must repect you are a
benificary of 2004/38/EC as you are an Irish Citizen who wishes to visit
another EU state.
This right is what the Germany Embassy have violated. and solvit have
failed to pick up on and assist.

[Ben]

your spouse
needs a visa, this is not the fault of the EU or Germany,
This is actually the fault of Ireland.

No it isn't.

Scrudu is not a Union citizen who has exercised his right to move and reside in the territory of another Member State. Scrudu is not resident in Ireland in conformity with the Directive and so Ireland is not required to issue a Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen to Scrudu's husband.

Ireland has done nothing wrong.

This is the fault of the EU for not caring to think properly when forming the Directive.

[acme4242]

your spouse
needs a visa, this is not the fault of the EU or Germany,
This is actually the fault of Ireland.

No it isn't.

Scrudu is not a Union citizen who has exercised his right to move and reside in the territory of another Member State. Scrudu is not resident in Ireland in conformity with the Directive and so Ireland is not required to issue a Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen to Scrudu's husband.

Ireland has done nothing wrong.

This is the fault of the EU for not caring to think properly when forming the Directive.

ok, There can be valid points made to rest the blame on either Ireland or EU side

To Blame the EU, we can say
Look at Switzerland, before they joined Schengen , they accepted
STAMP-4 issued to spouse of Irish, as a valid substitute for a Swiss visa.
After they joined Schengen, they must follow the EU rule, which will not accept it.

To Blame Ireland, we can say
As the ECJ said, its Ireland's responsibility to remove reverse
discrimination against its own citizens.
Other EU states grant equal EU rights including the issue of the same
ARTICLE 10 cards to their own citizens families by default without jumping
tru Surinder Singh hoops.

For sure either side has the power to solve the problem if they cared.
But the reverse discrimination that Ireland created, goes beyond freedom
to travel, it also affects family reunification rights, and in principle
its just not right.
That is why I'm pointing my finger at Ireland

[Ben]

To Blame the EU, we can say
Look at Switzerland, before they joined Schengen , they accepted
STAMP-4 issued to spouse of Irish, as a valid substitute for a Swiss visa.
After the joined Schengen, they must follow the EU rule, which will not accept it.

You are putting legs on a snake, involving Switzerland. The Directive is poorly written and leaves too many questions unanswered, causing discrimination in numerous circumstances. Scrudu has highlighted one. There are others. The EU writes documents on how not a single Member State has correctly transposed the Directive, yet they fail to acknowledge that the EU themselves may be, at least in part, to blame.

To Blame Ireland, we can say
As the ECJ said, its Ireland's responsibility to remove reverse
discrimination against its own citizens.

I've seen your posts on other threads on this and your debates with walrusgumble. I don't agree that "reverse discrimination" occurs when Member States do not issue a document to a person who is not entitled to receive it. Directive 2004/38/EC deals with the rights of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States. If no movement or residence in the territory of another Member State has occurred, the persons concerned do not fall under the scope of this Directive and so it is not applicable.

Other EU states grant equal EU rights including the issue of the same ARTICLE 10 cards to their own citizens families by default without jumping tru Surinder Singh hoops.

They are entitled to do this if wish, though doing so creates other problems. They are not required to do this.

For sure either side has the power to solve the problem if they cared.
But the reverse discrimination that Ireland created, goes beyond freedom
to travel, it also affects family reunification rights, and in principle
its just not right.
That is why I'm pointing my finger at Ireland

I'm afraid you appear to be misunderstanding the bigger picture.

[acme4242]

ok, ok, to keep this thread on topic
I will rewrite my earlier post and just state current hard facts.

There are 2 issues.

1) Your spouse needs a visa.
While this is unfair, its a current fact.
The Irish Stamp 4 residency card is not a residency card
according to Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC, and so the
German authority are correct in requiring your husband to
apply for a visa.
This issue cannot be addressed by Solvit.


2) However the procedure to obtain such visa, must respect you are a
beneficiary of 2004/38/EC insofar as you are an Irish Citizen who
wishes to visit another EU state.
This right is what the Germany Embassy have violated. and solvit have
failed to pick up on and assist. To this end, according to all available
guidelines,
He should be issued with a free of charge multiple-entry visa with a
long period of validity. The time frame for issuing such a visa should
also be sufficiently rapid to comply with the obligation to afford
'every facility'. By law the only documents that may be requested
are both passports and marriage cert
Your family members cannot be asked to present documents such as
travel tickets, employment certificate, pay slips, bank statements,
proof of accommodation and means of subsistence
This issue can be addressed by Solvit.

[scrudu]

There are 2 issues.

1) Your spouse needs a visa. While this is unfair, its a current fact.
The Irish Stamp 4 residency card is not a residency card according to Article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC, and so the German authority are correct in requiring your husband to apply for a visa.
This issue cannot be addressed by Solvit.

I understand this completely. This issue has been caused by the line that Ben isolated from the Directive. Only a rewrite of the directive would change this. I understand this is unlikely to happen.

2) However the procedure to obtain such visa, must respect you are a beneficiary of 2004/38/EC insofar as you are an Irish Citizen who wishes to visit another EU state. This right is what the Germany Embassy have violated. and solvit have failed to pick up on and assist. To this end, according to all available guidelines, He should be issued with a free of charge multiple-entry visa with a long period of validity. The time frame for issuing such a visa should also be sufficiently rapid to comply with the obligation to afford 'every facility'. By law the only documents that may be requested are both passports and marriage cert. Your family members cannot be asked to present documents such as travel tickets, employment certificate, pay slips, bank statements, proof of accommodation and means of subsistence
This issue can be addressed by Solvit.

Agree completely.

In short, if the Guidelines of the Directives were followed only passports and Marriage Cert should be required.
>> I'm following up with Solvit on this one again.

If the new EU Visa code was followed, then as he has already had multiple Schengen Visas and adhered to the conditions, he should be issued with a longer multiple entry visa.
>> We'll have to see what visa the German Embassy issue next week. I expect it will be a limited 4 day visa (same dates as flight details). When they do this I can follow up with Solvit about this seperate violation of an EU Code.

[scrudu]

In short, if the Guidelines of the Directives were followed only passports and Marriage Cert should be required.
>> I'm following up with Solvit on this one again.

Update on this one. I received the following response from Solvit:

Dear Ms X,
Could you please clarify if your spouse has made an application to the German Embassy travel to Germany?

If your spouse wishes to make an application to travel as the spouse of an EU citizen under EU Directive 2004/38/EC, I would suggest he contacts the Germany Embassy making it clear he is making an application to travel as a spouse of an EU citizen under EU Directive 2004/38/EC.

If a visa is required under I would suggest making it clear your spouse is applying for a visa under Article 5(2) of EU Directive 2004/38/EC as the spouse of an EU citizen. Article 5 of Directive 2004/38/EC provides that if a visa is required " Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible an on the basis of an accelerated procedure".

My Response email:

Dear Mr XX,

I can confirm that my husband XX applied for his Schengen Visa at the German Embassy this week. This is his 4th application to the German Embassy and his 7th application for a Schengen Visa. On application the German Embassy insisted on him providing originals and photocopies of all documentation (1 - 8 ) as listed in their website: http://www.dublin.diplo.de/Vertretung/d ... =Daten.pdf . He was also required to fill out a 1 page questionnaire about his current status in Ireland and plans in Germany (friends there, reasons for travel etc.).

1. The German Embassy already adheres to the rules of EU Directive 2004/38/EC in issuing the visa on the basis of an accelerated process: Duration 1 week to process visa application
2. The German Embassy already adheres to the rules of EU Directive 2004/38/EC in issuing the visa free of charge: Cost €0
3. The German Embassy already adheres to the rules of EU Directive 2004/38/EC in that they allow visa required non-EU spouses of EU citizens who hold a visa issued under EU Directive 2004/38/EC (e.g. Irish Stamp4EUFAM) to travel freely without a visa when accompanying their EU spouses: A holder of an Irish Stamp4EUFAM who travels with their EU spouse to Germany is not required to hold any visa
4. The German Embassy is already issuing the visa under EU Directive 2004/38/EC and the Schengen Visa application form has asterisks in places to mark parts that non-EU spouses do not need to answer.

The German Embassy do not adhere to the Rules of EU Directive 2004/38/EC in that they insist that visa required non-EU spouses of EU citizens whose visa were granted under national law (e.g. Irish Stamp4) must supply a long list of documentation when applying for the relevant Schengen Visa (as per link above).

It is this point that I am writing to complain about. According to the EU Directive 2004/38/EC they are not legally entitled ask for such information and can only request that any such applicant supply a valid passport and proof of relationship to the EU citizen (e.g. Marriage Certificate). The Irish Embassy in London was already cautioned 3 years ago on this issue: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/ ... 7078en.pdf

Furthermore they are not entitled to insist on a non-EU spouse of an EU citizen completing any further forms requesting personal details about their life in Ireland or their stay in Germany.

[acme4242]

Here is the follow-up correspondence between the
Commission and the Irish Authorities on that Petition you linked to in your post

http://acme.posterous.com/reply-from-irish-perm

Download letter from Commission >here< and reply from Irish >here<

[scrudu]

Here is the follow-up correspondence between the
Commission and the Irish Authorities on that Petition you linked to in your post

http://acme.posterous.com/reply-from-irish-perm

Download letter from Commission >here< and reply from Irish >here<

Brilliant. Thanks for the Refs Acme!

[acme4242]

It seems German Embassies in other countries can obey the EU visa law
just fine. (Visa for Family Members of EU / EEA citizens)
This might be useful information to use to try and convince the German
Embassy in Dublin that they should comply with the law, or at least with
other German Embassies.

Here is document requirements for this visa from the German Embassy in
Colombo Sri Lanka, download >here< For spouse of an EU citizen, visit visa, all they want is marriage cert
and passports. And this is correct according to the EU law.


[quote="German Embassy in colombo Sri Lanka"]
Last Update: 11/01/2010
Visa Information - Family Members of EU / EEA citizens
The following family members of EU or EEA citizens (except German nationals) are entitled to move
freely to Germany
- spouses
- descendants of the EU or EEA citizens or their spouses who are not yet 21 years old
- dependent descandants and ascendants of EU or EEA citizens
EU or EEA citizens who are studying in Germany are only entitled to family reunion with spouses and
children if they pay alimony to them.

I. Applications can be submitted Mondays to Thursdays from 8.00 am to 10.00 am. The applicants must come to the Embassy in person.

II. The following documents should be submitted along with the applications:

1. Application form (up to three months: „Application for a Visa“; more than three months: „Application for a Residence Permitâ€

[scrudu]

Updated response from SOLVIT:

The Irish SOLVIT Centre understands that Directive 2004/38/EC does not deal with the rules in granting a Schengen visa. The key documents regulating the issuing of Schengen visas are the Common Consular Instructions .OJ C313. Please see link below for Common Consular Instructions on visas: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 02):EN:NOT

These provide as follows in relation to the documentation to be submitted at Article III:

2. Documents to be enclosed

Applicants for the Schengen visa shall enclose the following documents with the application:

(a) a valid travel document on which a visa may be affixed (see Annex 11);

(b) where necessary, documents supporting the purpose and the conditions of the planned visit,

If the information supplied is sufficient to enable the diplomatic mission or consular post to ascertain that the applicant is acting in good faith, the staff responsible for issuing the visas may exempt the applicant from submitting the above mentioned supporting documents.

3. Guarantees of means of return and means of subsistence

Applicants shall be able to offer the diplomatic mission or consular post with whom they lodge their application, a guarantee that they have adequate means for their subsistence and their return.

I hope you find the above information helpful.

Seems like they are taking a different tack now, saying that Schengen Rules override EU Directive rules.

[acme4242]

Solvit Irelands information is outdated and obsolete. Its from 2002

As you mention in your first post, From April 2010 the Community Code on Visas
came in force with more detailed instructions, replacing all preceding
regulations. Official Journal Entry This Community Code on Visas states under Article 1

Article 1
Objective and scope

2. The provisions of this Regulation shall apply to any third country national who must
possession of a visa when crossing the external borders of the Member States pursuant to
Council Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 of 15 March 2001 listing the third countries w
nationals must be in possession of visas when crossing the external borders and those
whose nationals are exempt from that requirement, without prejudice to:

(a) the rights of free movement enjoyed by third country nationals who are family
members of citizens of the Union,

(b) the equivalent rights enjoyed by third country nationals and their family members,
who, under agreements between the Community and its Member States, on the
one hand, and these third countries, on the other, enjoy rights of free movement
equivalent to those of Union citizens and members of their families.

This Community Code on Visas for non EU citizens does not override rights
given by EU Community law to family members of EU citizens.
Such family members enjoy the same rights as their EU citizen family.

It is disappointing that the new Community Code on Visas did not
include the clear instructions for the issue of visas to EU citizens family members.
For that we need to revert back to EU commission instructions

http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/c ... ex_en.html