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Are you a migrant worker? Do you care if you loose your job? Do you have to worry about loosing your job AND having immigration problems because of it? Do you also have to worry about where the €150 GNIB is going to come from. Have you had your employer threaten you if you don't pay the €1000 work permit fee?NewIrish wrote:Good luck...
Every day in the news u can hear about jobs being lost...I do not think anyone will care about migrant workers these days....
It is called freedom of expression as long as it is done within legal boundaries. Don't buy into all those brainwashing about 'nobody cares about immigrants because other people are losing their jobs'. If you allow yourself to be caged in that mind set, am afraid that's where you'll always be. If the protest is not your 'cup-a-tea' fair enough, but I wouldn't stop or disparage anyone from voicing their concerns.NewIrish wrote:Good luck...
Every day in the news u can hear about jobs being lost...I do not think anyone will care about migrant workers these days....
To further your point 9. In 1958 at the begining of the civil rights movement in America, polls show that most Americans were for segregation laws. As the civil rights struggle continued people saw how the state actually treated black Americans and most were appauled.9jeirean wrote:It is called freedom of expression as long as it is done within legal boundaries. Don't buy into all those brainwashing about 'nobody cares about immigrants because other people are losing their jobs'. If you allow yourself to be caged in that mind set, am afraid that's where you'll always be. If the protest is not your 'cup-a-tea' fair enough, but I wouldn't stop or disparage anyone from voicing their concerns.NewIrish wrote:Good luck...
Every day in the news u can hear about jobs being lost...I do not think anyone will care about migrant workers these days....
Good luck y'all.
9jeirean
1. The poster was not attacking the protest, but simply telling ye what to expect, ie little or not support and /or apathy from the government and the irish people. Sadly, he /she maybe right, how many of the migrants actually enjoy voting rights for the Dáil elections - the politicans will only care about keeping voters happy (that is not, btw saying a majority of irish people want the hard working immigrant out - certaintly not, but if their job is one the line, will they not worry about themselves?). But the best of luck, don't let it in any way put yet down. fight.sovtek wrote:Are you a migrant worker? Do you care if you loose your job? Do you have to worry about loosing your job AND having immigration problems because of it? Do you also have to worry about where the €150 GNIB is going to come from. Have you had your employer threaten you if you don't pay the €1000 work permit fee?NewIrish wrote:Good luck...
Every day in the news u can hear about jobs being lost...I do not think anyone will care about migrant workers these days....
Do you not think that there are thousands of Irish and EU nationals out there who also have to worry about their non-eu spouses, partners, neighbors and friends?
Did you see the thousands that came out for the rally against the dearly beloved killing of the Nigerian boy Toyosi?
Millions of workers in Greece stood up against the Greek government and hundreds of thousands of those people were immigrants.
Hundreds of thousands in America marched against the dearly beloved Arizona immigrantion laws.
It can happen here too.
Thousands have been up in front of the Dail over the last two weeks in protest with the Right to Work campaign. One of the demands is jobs for ALL including migrant workers. Thousands of people have come out in support of that and it's building.
Your analogy as to what caused unemployment is fair enough, but a tad bit simple, but points are fair enoughsovtek wrote:To further your point 9. In 1958 at the begining of the civil rights movement in America, polls show that most Americans were for segregation laws. As the civil rights struggle continued people saw how the state actually treated black Americans and most were appauled.9jeirean wrote:It is called freedom of expression as long as it is done within legal boundaries. Don't buy into all those brainwashing about 'nobody cares about immigrants because other people are losing their jobs'. If you allow yourself to be caged in that mind set, am afraid that's where you'll always be. If the protest is not your 'cup-a-tea' fair enough, but I wouldn't stop or disparage anyone from voicing their concerns.NewIrish wrote:Good luck...
Every day in the news u can hear about jobs being lost...I do not think anyone will care about migrant workers these days....
Good luck y'all.
9jeirean
By 1965 polls show most Americans had changed their attitude and eventually the Jim Crow laws were repealed.
There is no reason to think it would be different here. People's consciousness changes through struggle as they come up against the limitations of the state. There is no doubt that the immigration policies of the Irish government are appauling and as more people are made aware through immigrants struggling against these policies things can change.
It is also in our favor that immigrants aren't the cause of unemployment.
While it's true that companies will put migrant workers against "locals" that doesn't cause unemployment.
The cause of unemployment is billionare investors going on strike and hording their loot. This all made on our backs of course.
As migrant workers and locals alike struggle against loosing their jobs etc etc this too becomes obvious and makes it harder for the government and the capitalists alike to divide and conquer.
You confuse "looking after EU citizens first" with classifying people by where they come from.walrusgumble wrote:Your analogy as to what caused unemployment is fair enough, but a tad bit simple, but points are fair enoughsovtek wrote:To further your point 9. In 1958 at the begining of the civil rights movement in America, polls show that most Americans were for segregation laws. As the civil rights struggle continued people saw how the state actually treated black Americans and most were appauled.9jeirean wrote:It is called freedom of expression as long as it is done within legal boundaries. Don't buy into all those brainwashing about 'nobody cares about immigrants because other people are losing their jobs'. If you allow yourself to be caged in that mind set, am afraid that's where you'll always be. If the protest is not your 'cup-a-tea' fair enough, but I wouldn't stop or disparage anyone from voicing their concerns.NewIrish wrote:Good luck...
Every day in the news u can hear about jobs being lost...I do not think anyone will care about migrant workers these days....
Good luck y'all.
9jeirean
By 1965 polls show most Americans had changed their attitude and eventually the Jim Crow laws were repealed.
There is no reason to think it would be different here. People's consciousness changes through struggle as they come up against the limitations of the state. There is no doubt that the immigration policies of the Irish government are appauling and as more people are made aware through immigrants struggling against these policies things can change.
It is also in our favor that immigrants aren't the cause of unemployment.
While it's true that companies will put migrant workers against "locals" that doesn't cause unemployment.
The cause of unemployment is billionare investors going on strike and hording their loot. This all made on our backs of course.
As migrant workers and locals alike struggle against loosing their jobs etc etc this too becomes obvious and makes it harder for the government and the capitalists alike to divide and conquer.
What has beloved got to do with an particular country within the EU not opening or closing the opportunities for work to non EU citizens who do not have any other right to reside in Europe other than permission to work? I am not referring to people whose family members are EU citizens. The EU must look after their own EU citizens first.
The colour of their skin did not effect them when they actually got a job so your comparsion to the civil rights movement is moot and not relevant here.
Unable to change employment has left the worker open for wide range of possible abuse. Restriction on work permit holder to change employer is unfair and unreasonable. More it is an abuse of human right for freedom of employment.IrishTom wrote:Are you being oppressed, Sovtek? By whom?sovtek wrote: You also seem to fail to grasp the point I was making how attitudes can change when people rise up against the system that oppresses them...so my comparison is quite apt.
I would agree with most of what you say except this part.Darkhorse wrote: If the immigrant lose their job and have to leave the country so be it.
.
If you are not capable of directly referring to questions that have being put to you please do not respond. Instead you go off an another angle. I clearly referred to Non EU nationals who have no link to EU countries via their family. This thread is referring to work permit holders! therefore, viz a vis people who are not related to EU nationals! so whatever you say in the above has no relevance to either (a) the thread) or (b) the comments directed to you which you are replying too. It is a different topicsovtek wrote:You confuse "looking after EU citizens first" with classifying people by where they come from.walrusgumble wrote:Your analogy as to what caused unemployment is fair enough, but a tad bit simple, but points are fair enoughsovtek wrote:To further your point 9. In 1958 at the begining of the civil rights movement in America, polls show that most Americans were for segregation laws. As the civil rights struggle continued people saw how the state actually treated black Americans and most were appauled.9jeirean wrote:
It is called freedom of expression as long as it is done within legal boundaries. Don't buy into all those brainwashing about 'nobody cares about immigrants because other people are losing their jobs'. If you allow yourself to be caged in that mind set, am afraid that's where you'll always be. If the protest is not your 'cup-a-tea' fair enough, but I wouldn't stop or disparage anyone from voicing their concerns.
Good luck y'all.
9jeirean
By 1965 polls show most Americans had changed their attitude and eventually the Jim Crow laws were repealed.
There is no reason to think it would be different here. People's consciousness changes through struggle as they come up against the limitations of the state. There is no doubt that the immigration policies of the Irish government are appauling and as more people are made aware through immigrants struggling against these policies things can change.
It is also in our favor that immigrants aren't the cause of unemployment.
While it's true that companies will put migrant workers against "locals" that doesn't cause unemployment.
The cause of unemployment is billionare investors going on strike and hording their loot. This all made on our backs of course.
As migrant workers and locals alike struggle against loosing their jobs etc etc this too becomes obvious and makes it harder for the government and the capitalists alike to divide and conquer.
What has beloved got to do with an particular country within the EU not opening or closing the opportunities for work to non EU citizens who do not have any other right to reside in Europe other than permission to work? I am not referring to people whose family members are EU citizens. The EU must look after their own EU citizens first.
The colour of their skin did not effect them when they actually got a job so your comparsion to the civil rights movement is moot and not relevant here.
It is a dearly beloved sytem (and it doesn't help EU citizens in any way) especially when you see how the facts on the ground manifest themselves such as treating non-eu spouses differently than other spouses, the outright hostility different nationalities get at immigration, the way immigrants are discriminated against when look for a job (thats ignoring the descriminatory work permit system).
You also seem to fail to grasp the point I was making how attitudes can change when people rise up against the system that oppresses them...so my comparison is quite apt.
Or maybe all this oppression malarky is just in your head.sovtek wrote:Obviously you haven't been paying attention.IrishTom wrote:Are you being oppressed, Sovtek? By whom?sovtek wrote: You also seem to fail to grasp the point I was making how attitudes can change when people rise up against the system that oppresses them...so my comparison is quite apt.
walrusgumble wrote:
You confuse "looking after EU citizens first" with classifying people by where they come from.
It is a dearly beloved sytem (and it doesn't help EU citizens in any way) especially when you see how the facts on the ground manifest themselves such as treating non-eu spouses differently than other spouses, the outright hostility different nationalities get at immigration, the way immigrants are discriminated against when look for a job (thats ignoring the descriminatory work permit system).
You also seem to fail to grasp the point I was making how attitudes can change when people rise up against the system that oppresses them...so my comparison is quite apt.
I'll respond to anything I please within the forum rules (which seem to be pretty sparse).If you are not capable of directly referring to questions that have being put to you please do not respond.
:rolleyes:You give the same guff (or at least you did) in other sites like politics.ie and boards.ie. It did not last long.
Gee so there are other dearly beloved systems out there. Thanks for telling me. So lets just all go home and watch Eurovision and forget about it cause Ireland is now excused.By your analogy, Austrialia and US are also a dearly beloved system. Geee SOuth Africa have being great pals to the immigrants like Zimbabweans and Mosambiques in the past decade
I guess that's why you don't seem to understand what I am saying, so I'll spell it out. That benefits neither.I can assure you their is no confusion on my part. THe EU laws are for the benefit of EU citizens first and non nationals second
The most likely scenario being you completely ignore all the evidence that's posted in here and have a loose grasp of reality.IrishTom wrote:Or maybe all this oppression malarky is just in your head.sovtek wrote:Obviously you haven't been paying attention.IrishTom wrote:Are you being oppressed, Sovtek? By whom?sovtek wrote: You also seem to fail to grasp the point I was making how attitudes can change when people rise up against the system that oppresses them...so my comparison is quite apt.
When one was given a work permit, they were given the work permit to work for a particular person for a particular role. They were told this. Thats why they were allowed into Ireland and the EU in the First place. That person had a free will not to take up the permit, someone else would have being more than happy to take it.Darkhorse wrote:IrishTom wrote:Are you being oppressed, Sovtek? By whom?sovtek wrote: You also seem to fail to grasp the point I was making how attitudes can change when people rise up against the system that oppresses them...so my comparison is quite apt.
Unable to change employment has left the worker open for wide range of possible abuse. Restriction on work permit holder to change employer is unfair and unreasonable. More it is an abuse of human right for freedom of employment.
The government should either grant work permit and allow change of employer OR do not grant work permit all.
If immigration does not come of Ireland that is other issue. However once they have entered the state, they have to be treated fairly.
If the immigrant lose their job and have to leave the country so be it.
As long as they are able to find other employer while still legally in this country, they should be allowed to move to other employer.
sovtek wrote:The most likely scenario being you completely ignore all the evidence that's posted in here and have a loose grasp of reality.IrishTom wrote:Or maybe all this oppression malarky is just in your head.sovtek wrote:Obviously you haven't been paying attention.IrishTom wrote:
Are you being oppressed, Sovtek? By whom?
1. eu benefits neither? really? so the eu treaty and directive prevents an eu citizen from living in another eu country, provided that they are economicially viable or self sufficient? Or that the EU prevents family members and dependants from joining that eu citizen in another country provided the eu citizen complies with the laws?sovtek wrote:walrusgumble wrote:
You confuse "looking after EU citizens first" with classifying people by where they come from.
It is a dearly beloved sytem (and it doesn't help EU citizens in any way) especially when you see how the facts on the ground manifest themselves such as treating non-eu spouses differently than other spouses, the outright hostility different nationalities get at immigration, the way immigrants are discriminated against when look for a job (thats ignoring the descriminatory work permit system).
You also seem to fail to grasp the point I was making how attitudes can change when people rise up against the system that oppresses them...so my comparison is quite apt.I'll respond to anything I please within the forum rules (which seem to be pretty sparse).If you are not capable of directly referring to questions that have being put to you please do not respond.
On the other hand I could say unless you are able to comprehend the point I'm making not to respond, but again I leave that to the moderators to police.
:rolleyes:You give the same guff (or at least you did) in other sites like politics.ie and boards.ie. It did not last long.
Gee so there are other dearly beloved systems out there. Thanks for telling me. So lets just all go home and watch Eurovision and forget about it cause Ireland is now excused.By your analogy, Austrialia and US are also a dearly beloved system. Geee SOuth Africa have being great pals to the immigrants like Zimbabweans and Mosambiques in the past decade
I guess that's why you don't seem to understand what I am saying, so I'll spell it out. That benefits neither.I can assure you their is no confusion on my part. THe EU laws are for the benefit of EU citizens first and non nationals second
People should consider the effect of this restriction that employee is open to wide range of abuse from employer. This policy certainly not human.THe reason for the restrictive requirements since 2002 was to ensure that the person actually stook to that employer and not move away to someone else on a simple whim. THe idea was, a particular employer needed an employee. He was forced to employ an non eu national because he was unable to employ an irish or eu person. The permit holders sole purpose in Ireland was to work for that employee and that particular role. If they wanted to leave they could, but were expected to make a new application for a new work. Without such requirements, the country would have be showered with serious potential abuse and non nationals taking jobs in areas were there was plenty of supply amongst the Irish and EU. No point having too many cleaners and chiefs if the country has little in numbers of eg builders etc.
sadly, that is true. there have been far too many horror stories out there.Darkhorse wrote:People should consider the effect of this restriction that employee is open to wide range of abuse from employer. This policy certainly not human.THe reason for the restrictive requirements since 2002 was to ensure that the person actually stook to that employer and not move away to someone else on a simple whim. THe idea was, a particular employer needed an employee. He was forced to employ an non eu national because he was unable to employ an irish or eu person. The permit holders sole purpose in Ireland was to work for that employee and that particular role. If they wanted to leave they could, but were expected to make a new application for a new work. Without such requirements, the country would have be showered with serious potential abuse and non nationals taking jobs in areas were there was plenty of supply amongst the Irish and EU. No point having too many cleaners and chiefs if the country has little in numbers of eg builders etc.