Would my mother be a ‘British Citizen’ or a ‘BNO’?

[greendaze5]

Hi everyone, please help if you can. These citizenship categories and changes in law over the years are SO confusing.

1. My mother was born in 1943 in Hong Kong, making her a ‘British Dependent Territories’ citizen by birth.

2. But in 1966, she got a ‘Certificate of Registration as a Citizen of the UK and Colonies under Section 6 (2) of the BNA, 1948’.

3. Her husband (my father) holds a ‘British Citizen’ passport because he lived in England for more than 5 years, giving him right of abode.

My question is: under current law, is my mother considered a ‘British Citizen’ with right of abode in the UK, or a British National (Overseas) with no right of abode in the UK

I’m asking as I’m applying for registration as a ‘British Citizen’ (with right of abode in the UK) using Form UKM, as I’m assuming she is a ‘British Citizen’, not a BNO.

Am I correct or incorrect? I don’t want to be handing over £500 (yikes!) in processing fees for them to tell me that I’ve totally misunderstood my situation.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Much thanks!

HH

[JAJ]

Something doesn't make sense here. If your mother was born in HK in 1943, then she was a British subject by birth and then a Citizen of the UK & Colonies from 1.1.1949.

UNLESS her father was a diplomat or enemy alien (HK was occupied by the Japanese in 1943).

If she was British by birth then her registration as a CUKC in 1966 was legally null and void. Because she was already a CUKC ...


If your father was a CUKC who acquired Right of Abode through settlement and 5 years residence in Britain before 1983, then as a woman CUKC married to a man with ROA, then your mother would have acquired ROA herself before 1983. She would have become a British citizen on 1.1.83.


Leading on from all of this, I am not clear how you could have claimed ROA yourself prior to 1983. Hence unclear if you're eligible for UKM. Do you have any United Kingdom ancestry (from either your mother or father's side?)

[greendaze5]

Hello JAJ,

Thanks for your input – much appreciated!

I am not clear why my Hong Kong born mother needed to register as a Citizen of the UK & Colonies in Feb. 1966 while living there. Nonetheless, she did. I haven’t reached her yet to ask, and frankly, as she’s getting on in years, I doubt she herself remembers why.

Incidentally, my father (also born in Hong Kong) received his right of abode in the UK as he lived and worked in England from 1961-1968. I myself was born in 1967 in Hong Kong, moved to and lived in lived in England till 1969, and then emigrated to Canada.

I’m using FORM UKM because it states:

“you were born before 1 January 1983; and you were born to a mother who was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of your birth and you would have been a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if it had been possible for women to pass on citizenship of the United Kingdom and Colonies to their children in the same way as men could;â€

[JAJ]

Do you have a copy of your mother's registration certificate? I remain of the view that it is legally null and void if she was already a CUKC by birth.

Are you absolutely sure she was born in Hong Kong? Does she have a Hong Kong birth certificate?

Where was she registered as a CUKC? In Hong Kong - or in the United Kingdom? Or at a British High Commission? Again - you need to look at her citizenship certificate.

As you yourself were a CUKC before 1983, you really need to work out whether you acquired a Right of Abode in the UK before 1983. Clearly you didn't do so from your father, so the question is whether you could have done so from your mother (possibly if she legitimately registered as CUKC while in the UK as opposed to HK).

If you did acquire a Right of Abode, then you automatically became a British citizen on 1.1.83 and can apply for a British passport directly.


If - and I am more inclined to think this is the case based on the facts - you did not acquire a Right of Abode, then you did not become a British citizen on 1.1.83. You would have become a British Dependent Territories citizen on 1.1.83. And on 30 June 1997 you lost your British Dependent Territories citizenship.

You couldn't have become a British National (Overseas) unless you were issued with a BNO passport between 1987 and 1997 (were you?).

And as you're ethnically Chinese then you're probably a Chinese (HK) citizen and hence not eligible for any of the residual routes available to British citizenship established for the non-Chinese ethnic minorities in Hong Kong.

[mochyn]

Do you have a copy of your mother's registration certificate? I remain of the view that it is legally null and void if she was already a CUKC by birth.

Are you absolutely sure she was born in Hong Kong? Does she have a Hong Kong birth certificate?

Where was she registered as a CUKC? In Hong Kong - or in the United Kingdom? Or at a British High Commission? Again - you need to look at her citizenship certificate.

As you yourself were a CUKC before 1983, you really need to work out whether you acquired a Right of Abode in the UK before 1983. Clearly you didn't do so from your father, so the question is whether you could have done so from your mother (possibly if she legitimately registered as CUKC while in the UK as opposed to HK).

If you did acquire a Right of Abode, then you automatically became a British citizen on 1.1.83 and can apply for a British passport directly.


If - and I am more inclined to think this is the case based on the facts - you did not acquire a Right of Abode, then you did not become a British citizen on 1.1.83. You would have become a British Dependent Territories citizen on 1.1.83. And on 30 June 1997 you lost your British Dependent Territories citizenship.

You couldn't have become a British National (Overseas) unless you were issued with a BNO passport between 1987 and 1997 (were you?).

And as you're ethnically Chinese then you're probably a Chinese (HK) citizen and hence not eligible for any of the residual routes available to British citizenship established for the non-Chinese ethnic minorities in Hong Kong.

Having lived in HK for 17 years and being interested in the convoluted developments that have taken place since before and after the handover I would say that JAJ has a very good grasp of the situation and I agree with his assessment totally

[greendaze5]

Hi JAJ,

Thanks again for your input. Much appreciated!

Yes, my mother was formally registered as a CUKC in Hong Kong in 1966. I have the certificate right in front of me as I’m typing this.

Perhaps the reason why she had to register was that her original birth certificate was lost during the turmoil of the Japanese occupation. To make up for the loss, in 1959, she had to make a ‘Statutory Declaration’ in Hong Kong (I have that paper in front of me too) stating that she was indeed born there in 1943. This document now serves as her ‘birth certificate’ so to speak.

Also, her 1966 passport issued in Hong Kong identifies her as a CUKC. This is her only British passport. She never applied for another one after moving to Canada from the UK (she went to England in 1967 to join my father already there) in 1969.

By the way, when my father renewed his passport in 1991 (his old CUKC one expired in 1978) he was given a ‘British Dependent Territories Citizen’ one at first. But after he was able to prove that he in lived in England for more than 5 years (1962-1968) he was granted a ‘British Citizen’ Passport instead with right of abode in the UK.

My mother it seems would be a ‘British Citizen’ too with right of abode being married to my father since 1966, if not through her own CUKC status.

From what I understand, I believe I was born a CUKC in Hong Kong (in 1967). That was eventually changed to ‘British Overseas Territories Citizen (BOTC)’ – the old term was ‘British Dependent Territories Citizen’ until changed by ‘The British Overseas Territories Act 2002’.

However, JAJ, you are correct in saying that my BOTC/BDTC was lost on 30 June 1997. I don’t have British nationals (overseas) status as I never applied; I already had Canadian citizenship (since 1973).

Nonetheless, despite all the above, Form UKM still seems to allow me to apply for British citizenship simply because my mother was a CUKC as required. There are no other stipulations.

UKM says All successful applicants will become British citizens by descent. But does that mean ‘British Citizen’ with right of abode, or one of the other classes without abode? As I mentioned, if it’s one of the other classes (like BDTC/BOTC) I don’t qualify because my citizenship rights were lost in June 1997.

In a nutshell, because of the convulated laws in general , particularly those the Hong Kong situation, I’ve no idea what my status (if any) is under British law. This is my first time looking into all this. I would welcome the oppurtunity to live and work in the UK if I qualify, but it’s all confusing. This says this, but then that says that.

Any additional advice from you, JAJ, or anyone anyoneon this board is VERY welcomed!.

HH

[JAJ]

There are three requirements for UKM registration:

- you were born before 1983; AND
- you would have been a CUKC if women had been able to pass on British citizenship the same way that men could (you meet this requirement, even though you were a CUKC anyway); AND
- if you had been a CUKC you would have held Right of Abode in the UK prior to 1983.

Unclear right now on what basis you see a claim to Right of Abode for yourself?

Right of Abode was given to persons:

- born in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands, Isle of Man; OR
- naturalised or registered as CUKC in the UK, Channel Islands, Isle of Man and at British High Commissions ** (two exceptions); OR
- a child or grandchild of a person in one of the categories above; OR
- resident in the UK, Channel Islands and Isle of Man for 5 years prior to 1983, if settlement was obtained; OR
- if a woman, married to a man with Right of Abode

** the two exceptions were: women registered as CUKC by marriage unless registered before 28 October 1971 and children registered as CUKC at a British High Commission on or after 28.10.1971.

It looks to me like your mother was CUKC by registration in Hong Kong (unless her registration certificate came from the Home Office) and your father's claim to CUKC was by birth in Hong Kong. No qualifying UK ties ...

[greendaze5]

Hi JAJ,

Thanks again for the helpful info. It does indeed look like I have no right to apply for right of abode under the 1971 immigration act.

My mother’s 1966 ‘Certificate of Registration as a Citizen of the UK and Colonies under Section 6 (2) of the BNA, 1948’ was issued in Hong Kong by the ‘Colonial Secretariat’ at the ‘Immigration Dept. HK’. This seems to be a different dept. than the British High Commission (which registration at does give right of abode if I’m reading the rules correctly).

However, what is annoying is that the language of Form UKM appears contradictory to the 1971 regulations. UKM says:

You will be entitled to registration if:

- 1. you were born before 1 January 1983 (I was)

- 2. you were born to a mother who was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of your birth… (she is)

There are no conditions given as to how/where my mother acquired her CUKC status.

Furthermore, Form UKM says:

You will meet the second requirement if at the time of your birth:

(a) your mother was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies and got that citizenship either:

- by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration in the United Kingdom and Colonies; or

- by birth, before 1 January 1949, in a British protectorate, protected state or United Kingdom trust territory

My mother, as I mentioned, was registered in HK as CUKC. There appears to be no requirement in UKM (vs. the 1971 Immigration Act) that she must have:

had that citizenship by his (or her) birth, adoption, naturalisation or… registration in the United Kingdom or in any of the Islands’ (1971 Immigration Act).

Thus her registration in Hong Kong (that is in the United Kingdom and Colonies) does not seem to be an obstacle any longer.

Also, Form UKM then says:

The citizenship you will acquire:

All successful applicants will become British citizens by descent. As a British citizen by descent you will not normally be able to pass on British citizenship to any children born outside British territory.

The definition of ‘British citizen’ includes right of abode (as opposed to the other ‘subclasses’ of citizenship that do not).

Perhaps my own interpretation of all this is wrong or wishful thinking. Any further advice of thoughts always appreciated.

HH

[JAJ]

All is very well with the second requirement for UKM, but you're missing that there is a third requirement.

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/britis ... ishmother/

"... you would have had the right of abode in the UK and have become a British citizen on 1 January 1983, if you had been a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies; and

and ..

"You will meet requirement 3 if:

* your mother was, at the time of your birth, a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration (except registration on the basis of marriage on or after 28 October 1971 to a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies) in the UK, Channel Islands or Isle of Man; or
* one of your mother's parents was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies in the way mentioned above at the time of her birth; or
* you were settled in the UK before 1983 and had at that time been resident there for the last five years or more; or
* you are a woman who, before 1 January 1983, was or had been married to a man with the right of abode in the UK.

Your problem not that you couldn't have inherited CUKC from your mother - you could have done (in fact, you were CUKC anyway ... ) but that you didn't get Right of Abode in Britain before 1983.

[JAJ]

Interestingly, this is a variant of the "Hong Kong split families" cases that the Home Office made special provision for discretionary registration. back in the 1990s.

The feature of these is that there is a parent who was CUKC from Hong Kong and acquired ROA by residence in Britain, and has a child who was not born in Britain and didn't acquire the 5 years residence in Britain before 1983.

A post-1983 child born to such parents, outside the UK, would be a British citizen by descent.

This led to situations where one or both parents, and sometimes younger children, was a British citizen from 1983, but an older child or children was a British Dependent Territories citizen. A special concession was put in place for under-18 children in this position:

An archived version of the Home Office NIs chapter 9 from 2008 explains:
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... ichapter9/


9.16 Hong Kong "split families" cases
[This category was only applicable to minors born before 1983 and therefore to applications made no later than 30 December 2000. The following guidance is retained for information only.]

9.16.1 These are also sometimes referred to as "citizenship transversal" cases. The identifying features are that the minors applying for registration were born before 1 January 1983 to one or more CUKC parents from Hong Kong who:

a. had right of abode in the United Kingdom under s.2(1)(c) of the Immigration Act 1971; and
b. became British citizens on commencement of the 1981 Act.

9.16.2 The minors did not have a right of abode in the UK and, therefore, became British Dependent Territories citizens rather than British citizens. However, had they been born on or after 1.1.83, they would have been British citizens, and any siblings born on or after that date are British citizens.


9.16.3 This perceived anomaly is not unique to minors with a Hong Kong connection but, in recognition of the special circumstances of Hong Kong, and of certain effects of the British Nationality (Hong Kong) Act 1990, Ministers agreed in 1992 to a registration concession.


Registration criteria
9.16.4 At least one of the applicant’s parents must be a British citizen from Hong Kong who acquired that citizenship through having right of abode in the UK under s.2(1)(c).

Alternatively, the applicant’s mother must have acquired British citizenship through having right of abode under s.2(2).


9.16.5 In addition, applicants must meet one of the sets of criteria
set out in paragraphs 9.16.6-9.16.8. These are in increasing order of strictness, and it will not always be necessary to look at each of these sets of criteria. For example, we would only look at paragraph 9.16.7 criteria if paragraph 9.16.6 criteria were not met, and we would only look at paragraph 9.16.8 criteria if neither paragraph 9.16.6 nor 9.16.7
criteria were met.

9.16.6 British citizen siblings
9.16.6.1 We should register if an applicant has a British citizen brother or sister, no matter how that brother or sister acquired British citizenship.


9.16.7 The applicant’s circumstances
9.16.7.1 We should normally be prepared to register if minors without a British citizen sibling have either completed at least 5 years stay in the UK
(whether or not they are presently here), or it appears likely, from information provided, that they will complete 5 years stay.

....


9.16.8 The parents’ circumstances
9.16.8.1 Where an applicant does not merit registration under the preceding paragraphs, the parents’ circumstances should be considered. The general approach will be to ask ourselves whether either parent would have been likely to have been registered as a principal beneficiary of the Selection Scheme operated under the British Nationality (Hong Kong) Act 1990 were he or she not already a British citizen.

-------------

The registration concession was announced in 1992 and by then you would already have been too old to benefit from it. In any case, it's not clear you would have been eligible.

[greendaze5]

JAJ - yes, it looks like I won't qualify.

Nonetheless, thank you again for your input (and for saving me time and money!).

HH

[SKN]

Here is something interesting to note greendaze5 I think you said your father was already settled in the UK and possibly had the right of abode

read Section 1 Subsection (5) of the immigration act 1971

since you were already born you maybe free to Enter, Live & work in the UK your father may have been a commonwealth citizen at that time

the debate is weather Hong Kong was part of the commonwealth here is something to note

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_ ... _Games[url][/url]

[greendaze5]

Here is something interesting to note greendaze5 I think you said your father was already settled in the UK and possibly had the right of abode

read Section 1 Subsection (5) of the immigration act 1971

since you were already born you maybe free to Enter, Live & work in the UK your father may have been a commonwealth citizen at that time

the debate is weather Hong Kong was part of the commonwealth here is something to note

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_ ... _Games[url][/url]

Much thanks SKN - I will look more into this situation. I appreciate your input!

[JAJ]

Here is something interesting to note greendaze5 I think you said your father was already settled in the UK and possibly had the right of abode

read Section 1 Subsection (5) of the immigration act 1971

since you were already born you maybe free to Enter, Live & work in the UK your father may have been a commonwealth citizen at that time

the debate is weather Hong Kong was part of the commonwealth here is something to note

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_ ... _Games[url][/url]

Interesting. Any British national from Hong Kong (including BNO) is a "Commonwealth citizen". As are Canadian citizens.

Section 1(5) of the 1971 Act as originally enacted says:

"(5) The rules shall be so framed that Commonwealth citizens settled in the United Kingdom at the coming into force of this Act and their wives and children are not, by virtue of anything in the rules, any less free to come into and go from the United Kingdom than if this Act had not been passed."

Rules = presumably equals the Immigration Rules.
Commencement of the 1971 Act was generally on 1 January 1973 (except for some provisions on 28 October 1971).

However, this section probably only gave access to settlement rights rather than Right of Abode/citizenship and was repealed by the Immigration Act 1988.
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.as ... Id=1578007

[greendaze5]

Thank you SKN and JAJ for your input.

This whole issue is vexing to say the least!