Child born outside the UK to a British father!

[User]

Hi All,

A quick question.

If a british citizen's (naturalised citizen) child is born outside the UK (in India) then i know the child is automatically British.

Now what options exist for the new born:

1. Straight-away apply for the British passpot (in India) from UK mission by getting a British style birth certificate; OR

2. Get an Indian passport (mother still being an Indian and the child born in India) and get a "Right of abode" sticker in the Indian passport to enter the UK and then register the child as a British citizen and apply for a British passport thereafter.

If we go for option 1, i guess it may be tricky because the child would have a British passport in India immediately, but would not have any status in India (no current Indian visa, or PIO card etc.) at that point in time - when getting the British passport. Of course we will apply for a PIO card for the child soon after, but the child won't have it until few weeks after getting its British passport and he/she will just be holding his/her British passport with no current visa status in India!!!!!

What are your views on this??

Notes:

Father is a Naturalised British citizen;
Father holds a Indian PIO card;
Mother is on a UK settlement visa but currently in India for delivering the baby and holds an Indian passport;


Ta!

regards.

[Chess]

i thought we discussed this subject before...


you need to think ogf the Child's ability to pass on citizenship when s/he grows and bears kids...

[John]

It is not clear from :-

Father is a Naturalised British citizen;
Father holds a Indian PIO card;
Mother is on a UK settlement visa but currently in India for delivering the baby and holds an Indian passport

-: whether the mother and the father are married .... to each other!

And I agree with Chess, this has all been discussed previously.

[User]

Yes, Myself am my wife are married to each other certainly.

(But how come this question came up - i am sure without having legally married, no spouse can get a UK settlement visa, and i have certainly indicated in my post that my wife holds a UK settlement visa as my wife! )

"you need to think ogf the Child's ability to pass on citizenship when s/he grows and bears kids..."

Agreed, but we have not thought about that, considering my wife's absolute need to be India for help from our family during her pregnancy. (She has medical issues in her pregnancy!)

Passing on British citizenship by our child to his/her children was not that important to us considering my wif'es medicl needs at this point in time of her pregnancy. She is now in good hands with specialist gynecologists in India!

[John]

i have certainly indicated in my post that my wife holds a UK settlement visa as my wife!

I have re-read your post ... and no you don't actually say that. You say she has a settlement visa but I am not going to assume that she is married to you. Hence the question. I am certainly not going to wade back through your previous 500 posts to get the answer.

So the child, born in India, will be British from birth, but following the registration of the child for an Indian-style birth certificate, the child should be registered at the nearest British mission, and will get a British-style birth certificate and British passport.

But as you already appreciate, the child will be British by Decent, and therefore their own children will not be British unless those children are actually born in the UK. Any children they have outside the UK will not be British.

[User]

"I have re-read your post ... and no you don't actually say that. You say she has a settlement visa but I am not going to assume that she is married to you. Hence the question. I am certainly not going to wade back through your previous 500 posts to get the answer. "

That is a little harsh reply, but anyway, i agree i must have been specific here to say the mother of my child i was talking about was indeed my wife! I just went writting with the flow of my main question and did not realise i was to be very specific about this point! Cheers John!

Thanks for your other points/answers.

H all - so which option should i go for - getting the british passport will mean the child being in India with no Indian visa status!!!

[JAJ]

But as you already appreciate, the child will be British by Decent, and therefore their own children will not be British unless those children are actually born in the UK. Any children they have outside the UK will not be British.

Not automatically however there are options to register such children as British citizens in certain circumstances.

[mhunjn]

Have you checked about this from the local/nearest BHC and/or Indian HO?...

H all - so which option should i go for - getting the british passport will mean the child being in India with no Indian visa status!!!

[User]

Cheers, OK i will speak to an Indian mission and update you guys as to what i hear from them.

Ta!

[mhunjn]

Yes... would be interesting to know.

Thanks

Cheers, OK i will speak to an Indian mission and update you guys as to what i hear from them.

Ta!

[basis]

User - Did u get any chance to speak to Indian mission.

One of my friend had his child born in India. The child got passport from the nearest UK high commission after registering its birth there. They were there on multi-entry tourist visa and got the same visa for the child as well. So very clear and straightforward process really.

It is the same case if child was born to Indian parents in the UK. You need to register the birth with the nearest mission and obtain passport. Then you get the relevant visa - LTR / ILR in the child's Indian passport.

Didnt really get what's the issue about it ? Only thing as John said the children of such child will not be British by decent.

[User]

Cheers basis.

The issue i am talking about here is this:

If we get the British passport for the child, what is the status of the child (visa / immigration status in India) for the time period between getting the british passport and finally getting the visa stamped in the british pasport (or getting the PIO card).

The child, i thought, technically speaking, did not have any valid immigration status in India after getting the british passport and until it got the a valid Indian visa/PIO card.

Do you see that the child does not have any valid immigration status in India when it just holds its British passport and then we apply for a valid Indian visa/PIO card??????????

That is the problem i am talking about.

My entire point of this thread was if getting the British passport for the child leads to that grey area of invalid Indian immigration status for the child (i.e. until getting a valid Indian visa / PIO card, which does not happen on the same day of geting a British passport!), then i would have to go for th eoption of getting the Indian passport and then applying for a Right of abode UK visa sticker, so i can register the child as a British citizen once me, my wife (who is married to me!) and my child are all in the UK.

I have not raised the point about my child's right of passing the British citizenship to its children - I know that point has been discussed several times before and moreover that is about 24-25 years to go from now! Laws are bounds to change - so i cannot be planning for those things 25 years ahead of time.

You see this ILR law has changed now (increasing the ILR eligibility to 5 years from 4 years) that affects even existing visa holders who are in the verge of almost completing the eligible 4 years rule, but now they have to suffer this one more year rule for ILR. This change has affected not only new comers to UK from 3rh April, but also people who will complete 4 years - one day after 3rd April. That's not the issue on this thread, but wanted to site an example of how law can change and affect our lives even if we plan ahead of time.

So i am not going to plan for something that will affect my child 25 years from now. Things can change completely by then. And quite possibly after 20-25 years form now, my grand children may even be eligible to British citizenship being passed on from from my child - who knows! Think about this one classic example of this ILR rule change that now affects everyone retrospectively! - not only the new-comers after 3d April!

The issue i have raised here is totally a new point that has never been discussed in the Forum before (AFAIK).

[basis]

User I think now understand now your real concern.

And can tell you that you need not worry about it.

If you look at my previous post you can clearly see that this situation is so common and happens all the time. OK may be nobody raised specifically this topic but there have been many posts here where the childe was born to Indian citizens in the UK who are here on WP / HSMP.

Now they need to get their child Indian passport and then UK WP / HSMP visa in that passport. If you ask what's the immigration status in the UK of the child between getting Indian passport in the UK and getting WP/HSMP stamped in that passport ? The answer is 'in process'. So long as you take steps in reasonable time it is ok.

By this logic one could ask what's the immigration status of the child between the exact moment of birth and getting any passport ?

Passport is secondary - first comes the citizenship and immigration status. Passport and visas stamping is just a proof of that - although very important specially when you want to travel. Passport or Visas dont decide the citizenship / visa status - they merely prove it.

So to answer again your question don't think / imagine too much. Nothing to worry there at all.

[mhunjn]

My interpretation for 'basis' ' is that it's fine... once your child isborn, you can approach the nearest BHC... get a passport and birth certificate. Then apply to the Indian Immigration local contact for a visa.

IMHO they will not deport a newly born child for not entering the country with a visa...

Hopefully it should be all fine... to be sure, you can get in touch with the lcoal immigration office and get info.

[penanglad]

Why not make do with an Indian passport with a ROA sticker? Let your child decide whether or not he wants to give up Indian nationality when he is older.

[basis]

True. But even otherwise if you apply for OCI - the child gets to decide after five years an option to regain Indian citizenship. And while the option of Indian Overseas Citizenship is available there is not much too loose by giving up Indian citizenship. Much easy for your child to travel across globe though. Again matter of choice and every adult can make that for themselves and their children...