Bringing my US gf to UK...endless grief

[Cold]

So we've spent the past couple years looking through countless forums and sites tryin' to gather as much info as possible, but startin' to brickwall on specifics and I think it's time to ask for some direct feedback on our situation specifically.

Our case:
I'm now 20, she's 18.
We've been together for some years and have visited each others countries several times each, always returning within the timelines and such to try and keep everythin' legal and such
She is a student, I'm currently working and will be going to college at the end of the year.
We realise that there's some stupid, arbitrary law that prevents us from doin' anythin' at all until both of us are 21, and accept that we'll probably have to wait three years until she's 21.
Neither of us are "highly skilled" or have any special degrees or anythin', and aren't likely to be makin' any serious cash anytime within the next...ever, I guess.

Basically, we're wonderin' what to do, and how to do things:
For example, if I go to college for 4 years and get student debts by the time she can move over here, will my income be shunted too much to be enough for both of us to live on?

If I skipped college and just worked, would that be enough to satisfy the "finacially stable" rules, even if it's a low paid job?

How much money would they expect me to have/earn monthly to satisfy the financially stable rules for her to stay here?

How long can she stay here after we get married before she can work? I hear different numbers, ranging from "immediately" to "two years" and can't seem to find a consensus.

Would it be easier for us to marry here under a fiancee visa and change to spouse, or marry elsewhere and bring her here as a spouse? Again, I keep reading completely contradictory stories on this and can't figure out which ones would be easier.

We're mainly worried about money...I'm not likely to be able to get some fancy high paying job, especially if I go to college for four years, but we've already been waiting for years and are preparing to wait yet more years for this pointless age limit; the thought of having to wait another five years on top of that until I can get enough money to bring her here is utterly depressing, to say the least.

Every time we think we've found a solution that will let us be together, we hear another rule or law that screws us over completely...we've been trying so damn hard to do this all legally and by the books, but they're makin' it so stupidly hard for us it makes me understand just a wee bit more why people immigrate illegally...I just want to be with her for more than a couple weeks/months at a time without an 8 month gap like normal couples and every day it looks more and more like it won't ever happen for me unless I win the lottery.

[Kitty]

For example, if I go to college for 4 years and get student debts by the time she can move over here, will my income be shunted too much to be enough for both of us to live on?

Your income would be assessed at its level at the time you applied. Basically you will need to show income at or above Income Support level for a couple, after you have paid rent and council tax. At the moment, that's around £105 a week.

If I skipped college and just worked, would that be enough to satisfy the "finacially stable" rules, even if it's a low paid job?

How much money would they expect me to have/earn monthly to satisfy the financially stable rules for her to stay here?

Depends on what your actual income would be without graduating: see above.

How long can she stay here after we get married before she can work? I hear different numbers, ranging from "immediately" to "two years" and can't seem to find a consensus.

If you marry elsewhere and she applies as a spouse, she can work straight away. if she comes as a fiancée, then she can only work after you are married AND she has successfully applied for further leave to remain as a spouse.

Would it be easier for us to marry here under a fiancee visa and change to spouse, or marry elsewhere and bring her here as a spouse? Again, I keep reading completely contradictory stories on this and can't figure out which ones would be easier.

Personally, I would go the route of marrying elsewhere and using the spouse route. The fiancée route involves an initial settlement application at £644, and then a further application inside the UK after the wedding to amend your wife's status to spouse. She can't work until she has spouse status.

Other considerations:

Could you work in another EEA country, like Ireland for example? If you marry then you could work and live together in another EEA country for 6 months, and then EEA rules would apply to your wife if she returned to the UK with you. This would avoid the over-21 requirement in the domestic rules. Of course, the current economic climate may well make moving around like this a bit of a dead end for you.

[Cold]

Is that £105 a week at all, or 105 after all the taxes and shit, because I'm pretty sure I already make that much in my current job o.o

The EEA rules are different? If we got married (where would be good/easy for us to get married, actually..?) and I got a job in Ireland or somethin', she would not only be able to work straight away, but come over here w/o waitin' till she's 21?

I'll definitely have to look into that...as it is I've been living in the city all my life and moved over to Arran to get a job, although it's a live-in job...I imagine for it to work with her I'd need to rent a flat as well?

If it's not a problem, could you tell me more about that EEA rulin', or link me to somewhere reliable that will inform me about it? If I can get her over here without waitin' stupid years extra, it's definitely somethin' worth lookin' into ASAP.

Appreciate all that, and any more you have to say. Thank-you.

[John]

The EEA rules are different? If we got married (where would be good/easy for us to get married, actually..?) and I got a job in Ireland or somethin', she would not only be able to work straight away, but come over here w/o waitin' till she's 21?

So the plan would be :-

• get married
• you would start exercising EU Treaty Rights, in another country such as Ireland, and indeed exercising those Treaty Rights in an economic way .... employed or self-employed .... and your wife (as she would be) would have the right to also live in that country, and also have the same treaty Rights, including the ability to work.
• After you exercising those Treaty Rights for a while, your wife would applying for an EEA Family Permit, and once that is issued the two of you would move to the UK. That is the minimum age of 21 does not apply to EEA/EU applications.

[mrlookforward]

The EEA rules are different? If we got married (where would be good/easy for us to get married, actually..?) and I got a job in Ireland or somethin', she would not only be able to work straight away, but come over here w/o waitin' till she's 21?

So the plan would be :-

• get married
• you would start exercising EU Treaty Rights, in another country such as Ireland, and indeed exercising those Treaty Rights in an economic way .... employed or self-employed .... and your wife (as she would be) would have the right to also live in that country, and also have the same treaty Rights, including the ability to work.
• After you exercising those Treaty Rights for a while, your wife would applying for an EEA Family Permit, and once that is issued the two of you would move to the UK. That is the minimum age of 21 does not apply to EEA/EU applications.

Treaty rights can also be exercised as a student.

[John]

Yes but not if they want to use the Surinder Singh method. The judgement in that case is quite clear, the Treaty Rights must be used in an economic way, employed or self-employed.

[mrlookforward]

Yes but not if they want to use the Surinder Singh method. The judgement in that case is quite clear, the Treaty Rights must be used in an economic way, employed or self-employed.

Thanks John.

[ElenaW]

What about the OP's girl friend coming over on a student visa? I know it's pricey but it's an option. Also, it would mean no need for relocation (which is really hard to do as well).

[Cold]

What about the OP's girl friend coming over on a student visa? I know it's pricey but it's an option. Also, it would mean no need for relocation (which is really hard to do as well).

Neither of us are top class students and we've spent the past six months lookin' at various ways to get student visas. They generally are looking for top-of-the-class students of current qualifications that she (hell, neither of us) have and would take probably longer for her to get the neccesary qualifications to come over and said student visa and only be able to stay temporarily. We're looking for a permanent and fast (as reasonably possible) solution.

[John]

So Cold, are you ruling out living and working in say Ireland for a few months?

[Wanderer]

Who's from what Country here?

[ElenaW]

Who's from what Country here?

I think OP's British, gf is american.

[ElenaW]

Neither of us are top class students and we've spent the past six months lookin' at various ways to get student visas. They generally are looking for top-of-the-class students of current qualifications that she (hell, neither of us) have and would take probably longer for her to get the neccesary qualifications to come over and said student visa and only be able to stay temporarily. We're looking for a permanent and fast (as reasonably possible) solution.

If she were to obtain one and keep studying until she turns 21, she can switch to flr(m) (spouse) so it would be permanent eventually.

[Wanderer]

Who's from what Country here?

I think OP's British, gf is american.

So why is the OP typin' in a US Reckneck-stylee?

[PaperPusher]

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=#366070

ken_sk44, what is this about your new fiancee, according to you, you are already married to your German partner.

[Cold]

I'm Scottish, she's in Ohio.

So Cold, are you ruling out living and working in say Ireland for a few months?

Not at all, I jus' worry about how likely it'll be for a relatively inexperienced student to grab a job in another country when they can easily hire locals. I won't be able to apply for anythin' that any local can't do and I'd have to worry about findin' a nearby flat as well, if I hoped to bring her here to stay w/ me.
Although, "months?" Wouldn't we have to live/work there until we were both 21 and thusly eligible to bring her back to UK as a spouse?
Or does bein' granted ILR (although doesn't that take like two years anyway?) in Ireland allow her to move back to UK?

Forgive me, I'm still not really sure about how this EEA thing works; I've not heard of a difference in age groupin' before I made this thread and (unless I've completely missed it) no one's posted a reliable link that info's me up on what the exact legalities are.

[John]

I won't be able to apply for anythin' that any local can't do

Why? You don't need to have a Work Permit or anything like that. You have a right to live and work in any other EEA country. The work need not be too high-level, and could be the likes of McDonalds, or working in a bar in Spain, Greece etc..

Although, "months?" Wouldn't we have to live/work there until we were both 21 and thusly eligible to bring her back to UK as a spouse?

No, the minimum age of 21 does not apply to applications under the terms of the EU Directive.

Forgive me, I'm still not really sure about how this EEA thing works

Suggest you do a search on this Board, or indeed on the internet generally, searching for say .... Surinder Singh .... and have a read, and then you will have a better idea about these matters.

[Casa]

Paperpusher...I've deleted Ken's obnoxious remarks. You'll note he's already on 'thin ice' after only 8 posts.

[Cold]

Have been lookin' into it. The plan all looks good...sounds a bit too good, too easy. There has to be some kind of catches or flaws that'll talk to it up, now.

I imagine the current problems are:

1/ How to get in touch w/ any of these people (lawyers?) who can tell us specifically what we can('t) do or should say to immigration w/o gettin' locked out, w/o needin' to spend a fortune talkin' to them

2/ Findin' out how exactly to get these forms and shit processed

3/ Where would be an easy, cheap place for us to get married? (I say easy as in terms of minimum paperwork required, no language barriers, minimum residency period, etc and definitely cheap as possible because...well....we're students who spend most of our money visitin' each other)

4/ Findin' a job for me, in Ireland that pays enough for us+rent, and a flat nearby thas cheap enough for us all at the same time...and then hopin' she can get a job ASAP when she gets here. (I know that no one here cna really help w/ that, but hey..it's a list..)

I hate this immigration shit. The amount of red tape and restrictions involved...jus' makes it seem absolutely hopeless to people like us...the past years have been hell tryin' to sort this and even with this, it doesn't look to be gettin' any easier any time soon. :/

[John]

Where would be an easy, cheap place for us to get married? (I say easy as in terms of minimum paperwork required, no language barriers, minimum residency period, etc and definitely cheap as possible because...well....we're students who spend most of our money visitin' each other)

I'll just pick up on this question. I suspect that there is no place that qualifies for everything in your list. And it depends on what you mean by cheap, given the two of you have probably got to travel to get to the same country.

Possibilities include :-

• Get married in the US ... probably easier to get married in the USA, but marriage laws differ from State to State, so needs careful checking. You could get married there having just entered to USA on visa waiver as a visitor.
• In the UK, but she would need to get a "marriage visitor visa" in order to permit that. It is no good just her turning up at the airport, entering as a visitor and then hoping to get married ... not permitted. How long? Nearly a month in total.
• Ireland ... don't know, but clearly a possibility, and hopefully someone living in Ireland will post details about how to get married there .... qualification period etc..
• Thailand ... I mention this because whilst there is a language problem ... dealt with by employing a translation bureau ... there is actually no qualification period ... but there is paperwork to get in place before the marriage can be registered at the Amphur (Register Office) . Even so you could still be married within say 3 or 4 working days of arrival in Thailand.

[Cold]

we looked at the UK long ago and realised that it wasn't a possibility for all the same reasons she can't live here yet.

Ireland I didn't think about, but mainly becasue I expected it to have similar rules...but I didn't even know about the Surinder SIngh thing until a few days ago, so...could always look into it, I guess.

Been lookin' at US and Canada mainly. Las Vegas is world-renown for bein' an easy city to get married in. Seems like an easy option, but the added cost of gettin' from Ohio to Las Vegas adds a few problems.
Lookin' into Canada too, where it seems easy enough, but not certain how the rules affect her, bein' american, and me, bein' Scottish. If the foreignerishy rules are okay for us, seems like some of the main cities there would be a good option and easy/cheap to get to, but LV is still lookin' easier, albeit with a bitchslap of costs to get tehre x.x

[lonelyhusband]

Been lookin' at US and Canada mainly. Las Vegas is world-renown for bein' an easy city to get married in. Seems like an easy option, but the added cost of gettin' from Ohio to Las Vegas adds a few problems.

If your partner is from US be very careful getting married there, you must leave the US immediately after getting married. If you wanted to live together in the US then you would have to apply from UK after you return, don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise. I know this from experience, no matter what the US lawyers or INS tell you regarding adjustment of status from within the US it's a big no no, by the time your interview arrives you would have overstayed the Visa waiver if you enter that way. Hope that helps.

[cringe]

OP's gf. Have got some questions:
1. Ireland seems like a good place to get married, however it's also the place we'd have to stay after we got married. Does Ireland have the same/similar law as the U.S.? (I.E. Need to leave the country after getting married unless otherwise permitted before going there)
2. What about getting married in Canada? Unfortunately I can barely understand all this legal stuff, but if I read it right, it said Canadian marriages weren't recognised in the UK?
3. Does he need a Certificate of No Impediment if we get married in Las Vegas?

[Cold]

If your partner is from US be very careful getting married there, you must leave the US immediately after getting married. If you wanted to live together in the US then you would have to apply from UK after you return, don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise. I know this from experience, no matter what the US lawyers or INS tell you regarding adjustment of status from within the US it's a big no no, by the time your interview arrives you would have overstayed the Visa waiver if you enter that way. Hope that helps.

Neither of us want to stay in the US for any real length. We want to get married in the US so that we don't have to bring her to the UK to get married here in three years, jus' for her to have to leave to make applications and come back again, costin' an absolute fortune in plane tickets thta we really can't afford. We'd rather get married elsewhere so that we can bring her here as a spouse already; seems much easier that way, esp. if we can get her into Ireland sooner than 21.

Never knew anythin' about that, but since you mention it, it seems worth askin':
The closest to that is if I'd go over an a visitor visa, we get married and I'd stay for the rest of the holiday before leavin' anyways, on the intended leaving date.
If I went and said to border control that I'd be stayin' for, say two months and we got married within the first month, would they expect me to leave early, or would they be cool me still leaving at the end of the two months when my plane tickets would be booked for?

EDIT:
Since Cringe mentioned it, can anyone tell me (or show a link, ideally) how long a Scottish/British Certificate of No Impediment actually lasts? I'm sure I read somewhere that it only lasts 4 weeks, but apparently she's found somewhere that says 3 months.

[lonelyhusband]

As far as I'm aware if you were married in the US without a Spusal Visa then you would have to leave the country immediately thats what I was told by the authorities in 2003, therefore you would be forfeiting the rest of your holiday, if in doubt check with Homeland Security and ask to speak to a supervisor, they know the law better than any reps or lawyers.

The information you seek for the Certificate of no Impediment can be seen here under the Subtitle: Submitting the application:
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-liv ... ulla-ostas