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Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator
Strongly support you. We are here to contribute to the economic, we pay our NI, Tax, spend money, bring in new dimensions of thought, ideas, knowledge, skills etc. We fill the labour market gap and do not claim any benefits. We are "cow" actually, eat only grass but give all milk.Dawie wrote:Yes, well if Gandhi took this approach with the British where would India be today. I'm sorry but I don't accept that immigrants to this country should quietly shut up and be grateful for being here. It's a 2-way street. As far as I'm concerned the UK needs us just as much as we need it.I'm amazed to read all the comments by various learned members of this forum. We are here to integrate in this society as well as to contribute to the economy of this country. I think whatever the government is doing is for the betterment of its people as well as its society. So please be positive and it doesn't matter whether we have to wait for an extra year. So we must respect the rulings and immigration rules no matter whatever they are. I hope you'll all understand.
Many thanks for reading.
Ideal
While personally I am grateful for the opportunity to live and work here, I will NOT be quiet when I feel my rights and those of my fellow immigrants are being trampled upon. We are not some subservient underclass of people. We are all intelligent educated people with a voice and if we disagree with the UK government we have every right to voice our disagreement. I don't like this "guest" mentality. We are not guests here, we are tenants and we ALL pay our rent.
All,Eugene_UK wrote:We should ask JCWI to act on our behalf and take this case to the court against HO. I did not find anything on their web-site yet condemning new changes. I think this is clear breach of British law and we should not tolerate it. What if they decide tomorrow to change from 5 to 15 years?!
http://www.jcwi.org.uk/index.html
Do you not feel the same way? Then do something about it!Sirs:
I am writing to express my deep concern at the new IND immigration rules found at
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en ... ation.html
The relevant part of the rules states that "For all employment-related categories of entry to the UK, and those who have entered under the Ancestry category, the qualifying period for indefinite leave to remain (settlement) is now 5 years" (increased from 4).
I am on a 4-year Highly Skilled Migrant Programme visa and my 4 year residency period is due to complete sometime in _______ of this year. Were the rules not retroactive then I (and many others in my situation) would would be on the path to indefinite leave to remain (ILR) which opens up financial benefits such as mortgages, and social benefits inherent in being permanently resident.
I undertook my stay in the UK with a clear understanding of the time constraints and pay full income taxes, council tax, etc. but receive no pension and/or public benefits. Now I am to believe that the goalposts have been moved and yet again we, a silent army of skilled and hard working employees, managers and technicians, will be asked to wait another year. Perhaps even more, if the rules are changed again. Over 150,000 workers in 2005 alone applied to the UK bringing needed skills; the government acknowledged as much by bringing in proposals for "tier 1" migration, however they are penalising those who chose the UK first, and chose to make their careers here, by adding another year and even more "fees" to bear for that privilege.
The expectation was that new rules would affect new migrants, but instead through the back door our hopes of recognition as full and honest citizens have been frustrated.
yours sincerely
I appreciate your disappointment but do remember that getting permanent residence approval for Canada can easily take 3-4 years and US has a strict h-1b quota limit and for people of Indian origin, the green card quotas have been retrogressing forver. It can easily take you 7-8 years to get a green card if you're lucky. A lot of what you say is a case of the grass being greener on the other side. I have friends wanting to leave he US and come to the UK as they are sick of waiting for their quota numbers to move on their green cards forever !AC77 wrote:I am now really questioning my decision to come to this country. I think this rule is really going to back fire on them in terms of attracting highly skilled migrants when many other countries (US, canada, australia) are vying for them.
what incentive is there to come to a country where you don't get an equal footing in the society for 5 years (and they talk of integration!), with such a high cost of living and i can surely say not an excellent infrastructure, when at the same time you have countries like Canada giving PR on entry which entitles you all rights and most benefits really making you feel it's your own land, of course there are other problems there but you don't feel being an outsider for so long . I can also comfortably say from my experience living in this country, although relatively short (1 year, HSMP), that the society in this country is divided into parallel worlds and sometimes I can't imagine first generation immigrants integrating and enjoying their lives here as if in their home countries. Anyways, may be this new rule was a spark making me say these things. Excuse me if the tone is harsh, but I don't intend to offend anyone.
Although I am quite far from ILR (Mar' 09, well now Mar 2010), I don't see any point staying here for so long before getting to feel at home, if I could move to US (H1B) or Canada where I believe there's a better quality of life and a better integrated society, surely better than here.
I am laying out my plans here but what I am trying to say is that when they are trying to attract Highly skilled immigrants, this rule is certainly not going help, because it's very natural for highly skilled and qualified prospective immigrants to consider factors like time to settlement before deciding which country to opt.
If you are single, you will never feel second class when on WP. However as long as you get married and have children, you will find the huge difference between WP holder and PR holder. The reasons are already explained by many people on this website.sywahu wrote:People have different experiences but overall, this country is quite WP/immigrant-friendly. I certainly didn't feel second class when on WP. Yes there are problems occassionally (mortgages/immigration etc) but again, I CHOSE to come here, I CHOSE to work here and offer my services and get paid for it. I read my WP stamp which said "granted leave to remain to engage in employment...don't change employment without permission....can only stay for 5 years...and don't even think about getting any benefits since you are only temporary..." etc. These contraints inherently make a WP holder "temporary" and you have signed up to be so.
Further to that, IF UK then chooses to grant ILR to temp. WP holders after 4 years and now 5, recognising their contribution, their kids born here and studying here, family etc, thats something I am thankful about to be honest. Of course others might counter that with "don't just zip it and be grateful" which is fair point.
Having said that, this retrospective nature of the 5-year rule implementation is very harsh and unfair indeed. Five years is a VERY long period to wait to get permanent residence and then plan things. Will certainly ward off many skilled people. And to not care about people who would have qualified for ILR in the next few months is....hurtful to say the least.
Perhaps someone in the authorities don't want WP holders to settle here permanently and want to do everything to discourage it? I believe someone did say something along the lines of "WP will no longer be a ticket to settlement".....
Why is 5 years "harsh" and a "very long" time ? That is pretty much the norm for most countries. As I said that is roughly how long it takes for most countries round the world to give someone unlimited rights to live there and effectively become a long term member of society. Objectively speaking I think people are reacting to the increase from 4 years to 5 but the figure of 5 years on its own is not particularly harsh or long.sywahu wrote:
Having said that, this retrospective nature of the 5-year rule implementation is very harsh and unfair indeed. Five years is a VERY long period to wait to get permanent residence and then plan things. Will certainly ward off many skilled people. And to not care about people who would have qualified for ILR in the next few months is....hurtful to say the least.
Perhaps someone in the authorities don't want WP holders to settle here permanently and want to do everything to discourage it? I believe someone did say something along the lines of "WP will no longer be a ticket to settlement".....
I don't see anything wrong with that. Why should someone coming to the UK for a temporary work visa have an automatic right to permanent settlement ? Name a country which does this.crazychris wrote: If you are single, you will never feel second class when on WP. However as long as you get married and have children, you will find the huge difference between WP holder and PR holder.
It's always difficult for the first generation to integrate 100%... that's just the way of life and is true everywhere in the world!...AC77 wrote:I can't imagine first generation immigrants integrating and enjoying their lives here as if in their home countries.
AC77 wrote: what incentive is there to come to a country where you don't get an equal footing in the society for 5 years (and they talk of integration!), ....................... at the same time you have countries like Canada giving PR on entry which entitles you all rights and most benefits really making you feel it's your own land, of course there are other problems there but you don't feel being an outsider for so long . I can also comfortably say from my experience living in this country, although relatively short (1 year, HSMP), that the society in this country is divided into parallel worlds and sometimes I can't imagine first generation immigrants integrating and enjoying their lives here as if in their home countries.
Lemess - You are so spot on in this and previous post. Just to add one more point to the UKs ILR system - you do not depend on your employer to file for the ILR. Whereas most Green Card application based on work visas have to be thru their employer. Again professional qualifications is so much important aspect of it. So many checks - no guranteed period of outcome, no objective criterion. In the UK both ILR and Naturalisation is just a matter of form filling.lemess wrote: The UK is not the only country where this is the case. The US is the same - a work visa does not give you any right to become a permanent resident. I think the expectation that has been built up over the years is due to a remarkably friendly system (where all you had to do to get ILR was see out 4 years on a work permit) every work permit holder entering the UK was on some sort of fast track to settlement.
Thank you for your “kind reminder” that we are only temporarily allowed to work and stay here. We never denied that we do not agree with it. However the fact is, if there is no promise in the immigration rule of the UK to say that after 4 years WP/HSMP you could apply ILR, I believe most of us probably will never come to this country (high living cost and low salary comparing with US and some other country) or have left this country for a long time. There is a difference between betray the promise and tell the world – hi, come here but there is no guarantee that you will get PR after whatever the years (Like US does and also US is the NO1 economic country but UK is, well probably 6th?). One is cheating and another one is trade- you like it, you come otherwise do not come.lemess wrote:Why is 5 years "harsh" and a "very long" time ? That is pretty much the norm for most countries. As I said that is roughly how long it takes for most countries round the world to give someone unlimited rights to live there and effectively become a long term member of society. Objectively speaking I think people are reacting to the increase from 4 years to 5 but the figure of 5 years on its own is not particularly harsh or long.sywahu wrote:
Having said that, this retrospective nature of the 5-year rule implementation is very harsh and unfair indeed. Five years is a VERY long period to wait to get permanent residence and then plan things. Will certainly ward off many skilled people. And to not care about people who would have qualified for ILR in the next few months is....hurtful to say the least.
Perhaps someone in the authorities don't want WP holders to settle here permanently and want to do everything to discourage it? I believe someone did say something along the lines of "WP will no longer be a ticket to settlement".....
Again, I think everyone who comes to the UK on a work permit or other type of employment visa has to appreciate it is a temporary right to work in this country- not a ticket to permanent settlement. Much like the H-1B visa which only allows you the right to work in the US for upto 6 years but is in no way linked to the green card process. In the US staying in the country for 6 years on H-1B gives you no automatic right to get a green card at all. Also appreciate that in the UK, all you have to do to acquire permanent residence is simply fulfill a residence criteria and show continuing employment. It is a remarkably quick process. In places like Canada, the US and Australia you have to go through a much more bureaucratic procedure involving police/FBI checking etc. before you are able to become a permanent resident. I would still take the UK's "5 years and you pretty much always get ILR" system anyday.
As Kayalami pointed out, the system is trying to maximise utility for the UK not the work permit holder. I am not convinced it is in the UK's best interest to offer permanent settlement to everyone who comes here under the current work permit system. Asking people to integrate, show commitment to the UK over a 5 year period is an entirely reasonable way of judging suitablity for permanent residence.
Thanks JAJ for accuracy and completeness. I was not sure about it which states exactly.JAJ wrote:Citizens of EU member states (other than Cyprus, Malta and the Republic of Ireland) cannot vote in general elections in the UK.basis wrote: Not entirely true. Commonwealth citizens and I think EU citizens resident in the UK can vote in UK elections.