Naturalization app after separation from Irish spouse

[Wisco]

Hi all, just looking for a little help/advice here.
I'm going to apply for naturalization shortly. I got a permanent residency card on basis of being married to an Irish spouse, but we have since separated, so obviously my application will be based on residency time, not marriage.
However, on the application, there's a box to tick if separated- do I still need to fill in the info about my spouse? (we are not divorced yet as it takes so long!)
I wanted to phone the INIS help line, but they have helpfully closed temporarily
Anyway, would love to hear from anyone who's been in similar situation or who knows about this sort of thing.

[assbc]

How long does it take to get a permanent resident permit base on marriage to an Irish National.

[scrudu]

Yes you would have to fill in that information. You are still married to her, so still have to give info. It would be the same on any other legal documents.

[Wisco]

Thanks for the reply- kind of what I figured with those forms.
As to getting permanent residency- it was pretty fast (less than month) but I'd been here for a while already and had been with my ex spouse for 2 years before marriage so we didn't have issues with proving it was a bona fide relationship and it wasn't a case of getting married to ensure I'd be able to stay in Ireland.

[robby1]

hi wisco,
how come you have got permanent residency card,P R card is only for family members of e u citizens ?and your spouse is irish or she has exercised e u treaty rights in any other e u state?

[Wisco]

Sorry, I guess I miswrote that. Spouse is Irish and I think it's really a stamp 4 visa that's good for 5 years. Am still new to all this immigration lingo, apologies!
Along those same lines, anyone know if I'll have trouble renewing now that spouse and I are no longer together (still legally married but awaiting separation even though we've lived apart for 1+ year)? Have been here paying tax and working the whole time- am starting to be concerned as it expires with my current passport next summer.

[scrudu]

Wisco: I don't think you have any rights to stay on in Ireland if you are seperated from your wife. On the DoJ website it says

There are no rights of retention of residence in the event of separation/divorce.

As your current rights to reside (Stamp4) were based on your marriage to your Irish spouse, the fact that your marriage is over would mean that there's no valid reason for you to remain in the State. For you to get a new Stamp4, your wife would have to attend the GNIB office with you to show that the marriage is still existing in order for your Stamp4 to be renewed. Stamp4 is not Permanent Residency.

It's a different set of rules for non-EU spouses of other EU citizens as they are covered by the EU Directive.

I'm also wondering how your application for Naturalisation would be handled. You say you are applying due to the fact you have lived 5 years in Ireland. What visa were you on for the first 2 before your marriage? If it was on an appropriate visa, these years will count towards reckonable residence. Regarding your years on a Stamp4, it's very possible that only the years you were in a marriage to your wife will count (i.e. 2 years) and not the last year as you were separated. I'm not sure how the DoJ will see the fact that you remained in Ireland on a Stamp4 despite the fact that you're separated.

I'd advise you get professional advise from MRCI or a solicitor who deals with immigration. Other countries have ways to prevent spouses of it's citizens being deported if they've already lived in the country a number of years, but I don't think Ireland has such rules, unless you've been granted Indefinite Leave to Remain.

Best of luck

[Wisco]

Scrudu, thanks for the good advice. Have looked at MRCI's website and may try to contact them. Any thoughts on applying for Long Term Residency?
This is from http://www.mrci.ie/know_rights/immigrat ... tml#link_3

Long Term Residency
If you have lived and worked in Ireland for a total of 5 years (60 months) you can write to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform (DJELR) to ask them to grant you long-term residency. Photocopies should be made of all stamps in your passport and submitted as evidence that you have worked and resided in Ireland for 60 months. If granted long-term residency, you must bring your reply letter from the DJELR to the GNIB or local immigration officer and ask them to change the stamp in your passport to a Stamp 4. Long-term residency is not the same as naturalisation: you do not become an Irish citizen, but you are given a longer-term stamp in your passport and you will no longer require a permit to work in Ireland. A person living in Ireland for 8 years or more who does not wish to apply for Citizenship can get a Stamp 6 in their passport, giving them permission to remain ‘without condition as to time’ (indefinitely).

I was on 1yr stamp 4 visa before my 5 yr one so have been on stamp 4 for almost 5 years now and have been working the whole time. I guess that's a stamp 4 too, but perhaps can apply based on working for 5 years rather than marriage? I'm open to all options at this stage as I would like to stay, but I realize that might not be possible.

[scrudu]

The MRCI defines a Stamp 4 as the following:

Stamp 4 indicates that the person is entitled to work without a work permit. It is issued to people on work visas/work authorisations, and also to, e.g., spouses of Irish and EU citizens, refugees, people with Irish Born Child residency, people with long term residency status.

My understanding is that you already have this "long term residency" stamp. I'm not sure that applying for LTR would have any affect. If you were on a Work Permit/Visa it would change your Stamp from Stamp1 to Stamp4, but as you already have a Stamp4 what difference would it make?

The fact you have worked or paid taxes has no bearing on this. From your earlier post, your Stamp4 was granted on the basis of your marriage to an Irish citizen, and not related to you working (e.g. work permit/visa).

[Wisco]

Update: I emailed INIS and got a quick reply telling me my current permission to remain will not change with separation and that when my visa is due to expire I should write to them beforehand and explain- email said circumstances would be taken into consideration, although I know that's not a guarantee of success. But it's a little bit of a weight off my mind anyway!

[scrudu]

Update: I emailed INIS and got a quick reply telling me my current permission to remain will not change with separation and that when my visa is due to expire I should write to them beforehand and explain- email said circumstances would be taken into consideration, although I know that's not a guarantee of success. But it's a little bit of a weight off my mind anyway!

That's great news! And amazing that you got such a prompt response in writing!

[blondi]

Response in good faith!!

I have been reading this thread for a while and now I need to contribute. I’m Irish man, married a non EU, 2006, we split in 2008 (2 years and 1 month together), she had visa till November 2010. She was at fault, she thought that Irish immigration law was in infancy, just because INIS wasn’t live and loaded and updated.

No matter, I informed the depart of Justice and INIS et al… to this date she thinks she has right to residency and LTR etc as she is still married but not together since 2008. I tried normal legal separation process, she laughs at me, and so I have started Judicial separation proceedings, OMG!! 12 grand minimum in costs and just 3 grand if you have a non complicated separation case. For us, we had no complications, property, kids, and savings. In hindsight, I was her meal ticket………

No matter, I can wait now, as in 2010 November, she will not get renewed residency or stamp 4. I have this in writing from John Ryan in Burgh Quay. You can’t marry an Irish spouse and then decide to leave when you wish, or for whatever reason or subject matter.

The Irish immigration law is quite clear and succinct, as above writer states!!!

There are no rights of retention of residence in the event of separation/divorce.

Irish law has to be like this, can you imagine if it wasn’t??? Tourism marriage loophole, just make sure please Non EU spouses – “marry in haste repent at leisureâ€

[thesmiler]

Update: I emailed INIS and got a quick reply telling me my current permission to remain will not change with separation and that when my visa is due to expire I should write to them beforehand and explain- email said circumstances would be taken into consideration, although I know that's not a guarantee of success. But it's a little bit of a weight off my mind anyway!

That's great news! And amazing that you got such a prompt response in writing!

Since when does INIS answer emails again? Did the work-to-rule stop? Or was only the EU treaty rights department not answering?

[Monifé]

[quote="blondi"]Response in good faith!!

I have been reading this thread for a while and now I need to contribute. I’m Irish man, married a non EU, 2006, we split in 2008 (2 years and 1 month together), she had visa till November 2010. She was at fault, she thought that Irish immigration law was in infancy, just because INIS wasn’t live and loaded and updated.

No matter, I informed the depart of Justice and INIS et al… to this date she thinks she has right to residency and LTR etc as she is still married but not together since 2008. I tried normal legal separation process, she laughs at me, and so I have started Judicial separation proceedings, OMG!! 12 grand minimum in costs and just 3 grand if you have a non complicated separation case. For us, we had no complications, property, kids, and savings. In hindsight, I was her meal ticket………

No matter, I can wait now, as in 2010 November, she will not get renewed residency or stamp 4. I have this in writing from John Ryan in Burgh Quay. You can’t marry an Irish spouse and then decide to leave when you wish, or for whatever reason or subject matter.

The Irish immigration law is quite clear and succinct, as above writer states!!!

There are no rights of retention of residence in the event of separation/divorce.

Irish law has to be like this, can you imagine if it wasn’t??? Tourism marriage loophole, just make sure please Non EU spouses – “marry in haste repent at leisureâ€

[Monifé]

You can’t marry an Irish spouse and then decide to leave when you wish, or for whatever reason or subject matter.

Why not? Are you saying if you marry a spouse that is not of your nationality, you are tied to them forever, no matter what the circumstances?

[Monifé]

Since when does INIS answer emails again? Did the work-to-rule stop? Or was only the EU treaty rights department not answering?

Think it was the EU Treaty Rights section. Although I did get a reply from them 7 days after I emailed them. I have since sent another email over 12 days ago and have yet to receive a reply. I think they just make it up as they go along

[Wisco]

Blondi-
I'm sorry your situation didn't work out, but bear in mind that not everyone marries for immigration purposes, and sadly, marriages don't always work out, much as I would have wished otherwise.
I don't understand why you'd want to make it harder for others to stay. A marriage breakup is a hard, stressful time- add the prospect of having to move country on top of that and you don't end up with a good time.
I realize your situation is different to mine, and I hope you get an acceptable resolution
Monife- I wasn't emailing the EU treaty rights section, perhaps that's why I got such a quick reply.