Stamp 3 for EU treaty pending applicatants

[akwadaa]

Hi Guys,,I jst saw this shocking information on the INIS website..Can they do this under EU Law??


Please be advised that with effect from 1 June 2010, the permission to remain which may be given to applicants who are in the State on the basis of a pending application for EU Treaty Rights will be a Stamp 3. This stamp will allow the applicant to remain in Ireland on conditions that the holder does not enter into employment, does not engage in business or profession and does not remain later than a specified date. This stamp will be provided for the period of the application process only (i.e. a maximum of six months).

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... y%20Rights

[kabuki]

Hi Guys,,I jst saw this shocking information on the INIS website..Can they do this under EU Law??


Please be advised that with effect from 1 June 2010, the permission to remain which may be given to applicants who are in the State on the basis of a pending application for EU Treaty Rights will be a Stamp 3. This stamp will allow the applicant to remain in Ireland on conditions that the holder does not enter into employment, does not engage in business or profession and does not remain later than a specified date. This stamp will be provided for the period of the application process only (i.e. a maximum of six months).

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... y%20Rights

That is so going to court and being overruled. The partner of the EU national is given the same rights as the EU national. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

[sideshowsue]

This is a court case waiting to happen.

[iluvireland]

its realy shoking,,,,news. half year to make decission and now they want more time,,, thats rediculas and unfair,they dont have any respect on eu .treaty right,,,,shame on DOJ

[koded]

This is why they decide to remove this page
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP08000033
Because it was stated there that stamp 4 will be issued when your application is pending.
I dont know what Ireland is still waiting for to pull out from EU.

[Ben]

I've sent this open letter to the Department of Justice, and a similar one to the European Commission:

Dear Sirs,

In July 2008 I contacted the European Commission and made a formal complaint in relation to several breaches by the Irish government of EU Directive 2004/38/EC. Since then, there have been some changes in Ireland.

Previously, the family member of a Union citizen who had applied for a Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen but who had not yet received it, received an endorsement in his passport (known as "Stamp 3") stating that he is prohibited from engaging in employment in Ireland. As you will be aware, such prohibition is unlawful, since it is incompatible with the provisions of EU Directive 2004/38/EC.

Some time after my complaint, this situation changed. The family member of a Union citizen who has applied for a Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen but who has not yet received it, no longer receives this "Stamp 3" passport endorsement and unlawful prohibition of employment. Rather, he instead receives a "Stamp 4" endorsement, valid for six months (for the duration of the application process of the Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen). The "Stamp 4" endorsement does not prohibit the family member of a Union citizen from engaging in employment.

However, on the website of the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service, the below text is now displayed:

"Please be advised that with effect from 1 June 2010, the permission to remain which may be given to applicants who are in the State on the basis of a pending application for EU Treaty Rights will be a Stamp 3. This stamp will allow the applicant to remain in Ireland on conditions that the holder does not enter into employment, does not engage in business or profession and does not remain later than a specified date. This stamp will be provided for the period of the application process only (i.e. a maximum of six months)."
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... y%20Rights

Why does the Irish government intend to return to its old practice, of illegally discriminating against and depriving the family member of a Union citizen who is resident in Ireland, from engaging in employment in the state?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Your faithfully,
Benjamin Wilson (Mr.)

I cannot understand why they are taking backward steps. They used to issue Stamp 3, they got a their wrists slapped, now they issue Stamp 4. Why revert to Stamp 3 again? Are they hoping that no one will notice?

[akwadaa]

Its such a shame that the DOJ cant not implement a very straight forward directive...Its about time EU Nationals excersing eu treaty rights stood up and push 4 the corect implementation of the directives..

[IrishTom]

This is a court case waiting to happen.

No doubt. Can the state expect a fine? If so, how much?

[Monifé]

I've sent this open letter to the Department of Justice, and a similar one to the European Commission:

Dear Sirs,

In July 2008 I contacted the European Commission and made a formal complaint in relation to several breaches by the Irish government of EU Directive 2004/38/EC. Since then, there have been some changes in Ireland.

Previously, the family member of a Union citizen who had applied for a Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen but who had not yet received it, received an endorsement in his passport (known as "Stamp 3") stating that he is prohibited from engaging in employment in Ireland. As you will be aware, such prohibition is unlawful, since it is incompatible with the provisions of EU Directive 2004/38/EC.

Some time after my complaint, this situation changed. The family member of a Union citizen who has applied for a Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen but who has not yet received it, no longer receives this "Stamp 3" passport endorsement and unlawful prohibition of employment. Rather, he instead receives a "Stamp 4" endorsement, valid for six months (for the duration of the application process of the Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen). The "Stamp 4" endorsement does not prohibit the family member of a Union citizen from engaging in employment.

However, on the website of the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service, the below text is now displayed:

"Please be advised that with effect from 1 June 2010, the permission to remain which may be given to applicants who are in the State on the basis of a pending application for EU Treaty Rights will be a Stamp 3. This stamp will allow the applicant to remain in Ireland on conditions that the holder does not enter into employment, does not engage in business or profession and does not remain later than a specified date. This stamp will be provided for the period of the application process only (i.e. a maximum of six months)."
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... y%20Rights

Why does the Irish government intend to return to its old practice, of illegally discriminating against and depriving the family member of a Union citizen who is resident in Ireland, from engaging in employment in the state?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Your faithfully,
Benjamin Wilson (Mr.)

I cannot understand why they are taking backward steps. They used to issue Stamp 3, they got a their wrists slapped, now they issue Stamp 4. Why revert to Stamp 3 again? Are they hoping that no one will notice?

Fair play to you Ben. Your great to take the time to write those letters. I hope you receive a speedy response and I hope EU Commission enforce the true interpretation of the Directive with Ireland as soon as possible.

Its a disgrace how incompetent the Irish Immigration System is. And how they feel they can make the rules up as they go along. I hope the EU gives them a good, hard SLAP on the wrist!! or worse

[Ben]

The national authorities may not:
prevent you from carrying out employed or self-employed activity or study.

Q.9 Can I enter employment while my application is pending?

A No. From 1 June 2010 you may be issued with a Stamp 3 endorsement while your application is pending. Stamp 3 allows the holder permission to remain in the State for the specified period on condition that the holder does not enter employment, does not engage in business or profession and does not remain later than the specified date.

[Monifé]

Hi Ben,

I complained to EU commission too and they told me the same thing and said they will be raising the issue with the irish authorities shortly, whenever that will be.

I'm thinking if they try and give my partner a stamp 3, I can show them a copy of the letter from EU commission.

Anyone else in this position, you should also email complaint to EU commission.

[koded]

Have they started issuing the stamp 3? I think they are being relutant over it. They delay most applications I think.
Will like to hear from people who have recieved the stamp 3.

[ciaramc]

I just read this....have to say I would love to send a complaint aswell......I'm an Irish citizen exercising treaty rights in the EU....considering coming home (to Ireland).


Think I just might!

[immguru]

There is case going to Irish high court on this. My friend is taking it and was advsied to do it through his lawyers. This will be interesting and will take long time but the government could change the law in the meantime becasue of this case. I'll have more information next week.

[Monifé]

Look forward to hearing more information immguru!!

Also would like to know has anyone else, or has anyone heard of anyone actually receiving the temporary stamp 3?

Is it only if you lodged your application after 1st June?

Thanks

[sarahfancy]

Has anything come of this case? Has anyone been given Stamp 3 instead of Stamp 4?

I'm an American who has just been offered a job in Ireland based on the fact that I am married to a German and have permanent residency in Germany. Now I hear that the law has changed and that I won't be able to work while waiting for Stamp 4. I'm due to start Sept. 1 and will be moving my family (including 4 kids) by mid August. That is a big move to end up not being able to work while waiting!

Anyone hear anything new on this one?

Thanks,
Sarah

[Ben]

Has anything come of this case? Has anyone been given Stamp 3 instead of Stamp 4?

I'm an American who has just been offered a job in Ireland based on the fact that I am married to a German and have permanent residency in Germany. Now I hear that the law has changed and that I won't be able to work while waiting for Stamp 4. I'm due to start Sept. 1 and will be moving my family (including 4 kids) by mid August. That is a big move to end up not being able to work while waiting!

Anyone hear anything new on this one?

Thanks,
Sarah

Hi Sarah,

Will your husband be moving together with you to Ireland in August? What Treaty right does he intend on exercising beyond the initial three months of entry?

[sarahfancy]

Hi Ben,

Yes, he would be coming and the rest of the family. He has job interviews now, so he would be coming to work as well.

Sarah

[Ben]

Hi Ben,

Yes, he would be coming and the rest of the family. He has job interviews now, so he would be coming to work as well.

Sarah

Straightforward enough then. You each have the right to reside and work immediately on entry. Three months later, these rights are maintained provided your husband is either working or has sufficient resources (including those gained from your employment) to support himself and his resident family members and has comprehensive sickness insurance cover for same.

The Department of Justice has no authority to restrict or remove these rights from either of you, unless a threat is posed to public policy, security or health.

Welcome to Ireland.

[sarahfancy]

Hi Ben,

Thanks for your answer...

So what can we do to prove that? I obviously can't go and work without something in my passport, correct?

Where should I go to get help with it? I need to sign the contract...

Thanks so much.

Sarah

(You can also PM me if that helps).

[Ben]

Hi Ben,

Thanks for your answer...

So what can we do to prove that? I obviously can't go and work without something in my passport, correct?

Where should I go to get help with it? I need to sign the contract...

Thanks so much.

Sarah

(You can also PM me if that helps).

You can indeed commence employment immediately. Under no circumstances may this be conditional on the placing of any form of endorsement in your passport or by the issuance of any document by the Irish government. Hopefully your employer will be aware of this. Realistically, I'm sorry to say they may not. This Department of Justice certainly aren't.

[koded]

I think this will be between you and your employer. If you can explain to them your rights and if they can understand you clearly on that. then you will be fine. They should know that they wont be having any problem by hiring you. of course this is quite difficult to prove because they will not want to go aganist the state policy.
But this shouldn't discourage you since your husband is coming with you. it is better to come, apply for RC and then wait for the account. Perhaps, your husband salary support you all until you get a decision or until the situation change as for stamp 3 issue. I guess this will be challenged.

[thesmiler]

To answer another question, my partner+me just received our documents back together with a letter that may grant us a stamp 3 if my partner requires it. The letter mentions something along the lines though that if my partner already has an endorsement in the passport the acceptance of the stamp 3 will have implications on her rights. Since she is currently on a stamp 2 permit, she will not go collect her stamp 3 as with her stamp 2 permit she is able to work part-time.

[sarahfancy]

I think this will be between you and your employer. If you can explain to them your rights and if they can understand you clearly on that. then you will be fine. They should know that they wont be having any problem by hiring you. of course this is quite difficult to prove because they will not want to go aganist the state policy.
But this shouldn't discourage you since your husband is coming with you. it is better to come, apply for RC and then wait for the account. Perhaps, your husband salary support you all until you get a decision or until the situation change as for stamp 3 issue. I guess this will be challenged.

But waiting isn't really an option. I already have a contract!

You think the employer would understand that? I'm not so sure....

I thought about applying for a work permit for the first 6 months, but I don't know if that applies here.

And does anyone think the situation for stamp 3 is going to change anytime that soon?

Sarah

[sarahfancy]

HI all,

I also wrote signposts.ie and asked about this. This was their response:
I wish to refer you to EU Directive 2004/38/EC on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States.

Under Article 23 of the above-mentioned Directive EU family members, irrespective of their
nationality, are entitled to take up employment or self-employment in the host Member State. It does not matter whether the EU national (your husband in this case) moves to work, study or just reside there, as their family members can start their economic activity with the same paperwork as nationals.

The right of residence of family members of a Union citizen who are not nationals of
a Member State shall be evidenced by the issuing of a document called “Residence
card of a family member of a Union citizenâ€