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French schenghen visa - French wife...

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babloo_girl
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French schenghen visa - French wife...

Post by babloo_girl » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:15 pm

I need some advice,

My husband and I are planning to on on holiday to France in August. He had an appointment last week but was turned away since we do not have "le livret de famille" which is a blue book in which you get your children registered (you do get it when you get married in France).

Anyway, we got married in the UK in 2009, after receiving from UK home office since my husband is from Pakistan.

Now looking on the French embassy website, we should have also ask the permission to get married from the french embassy (we both live and work in the UK).

So Monday we are having 3 appointments at the embassy (one to register myself as a french person in the UK, another to get our marriage transcribed onto the french registers, and finally one for the visa).

Surely, they can not deny the fact that we are married? And because we provided them with all the documents requested on the website, I really don't understand why they turned him away...they can not say that our marriage isn't legal/recognize in France and consequently refuse him the visa?

I am really unsure on how it works. has anyone come accross problems at the french embassy?

pierre75
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Posts: 54
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 9:12 pm

Post by pierre75 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:46 pm

Since 2006, French who marry foreign nationals outside France shall ask a CCM (Certificate of Marriage Capacity) to the French Consulat of the area from which belongs the marriage ceremony.

If you married in UK after 2006 (you French, him Pakistanese or whatever no-French), with our without CCM, the French authorities do consider that your mariage establish legal obligation only between the spouses (you and your husband) but your marriage has first to be "transcripted" (registered) in the French état-civil register before to be recognised ("opposable aux tiers dont l'administration") by the French administration.

In the case you didn't ask for CCM, there is two differences :

- First, the Consulat has to made interview of you and your spouse before to "transcript" (this will be your meeting of monday).

- Second, there is no maximum legal period for the Tribunal to study your appeal in the event that the consulat refuses to transcript your marriage.

So it is better to be friendly with the Consulate. They are right when they say that, under the French local law, your marriage has first to be registered in the French état-civil (and a French "livret de famille" delivered) before they shall recognize it.

BUT, you have another possibility since you are a French citizen living in UK and, I suppose, registered in UK as European citizen. You can ask a visa for your husband under the european law of freedom of movement (directive 2004/38) and not anymore under the French local law.

Guidance for better transposition and application of Directive 2004/38/EC on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States
July 7, 2009
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 313:FR:NOT

EU citizens who return to their home Member State after having resided in another Member State [8] and in certain circumstances also those EU citizens who have exercised their rights to free movement in another Member State without residing there [9] (for example by providing services in another Member State without residing there) benefit as well from the rules on free movement of persons.
It means that you are entitled to present yourself and your husband to the French Consulate as European citizen with 3rd country family exercising their rights under the European law and not anymore under the French law for visa matters.

It means that, in principle, they do not have first to transcript your marriage under the French état-civil before to deliver to your husband a EU family visa.

2.1.1. Spouses and partners

Marriages validly contracted anywhere in the world must be in principle recognized for the purpose of the application of the Directive
It is stated : "in principle", which means that the Consulate shall have a special reason not to recognize the validity of your UK marriage certificate under the 2004/38. Of course, the Consulate can not say officially that it is because your husband is Pakistanese ... But they may be creative.

But it is better for you, if I may allow myself to give an advice, to try to find a good understanding with the French consulate.

It could be to ask, at the same time, to have your marriage transcripted under the French law and to ask a visa but this time under the European law for your august hollidays (without the need of waiting for the transcription first). So that you show them that you are of good will and so legitimate to wait similar good will from them.

In order to ask the visa under European law (2004/38), you will need : your passport, his passport, the UK marriage certificate and be ready to show a proof that you will travel with your husband, whatever is this proof. It is not quite legal yet from them to ask for this proof (see acme4242 http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 598#392598 )but it is better for you to be ready with it if they ask.

It is also better to go to the Consulate with the various official texts related to the 2004/38.

Try to print whatever of interest and to have it readily available in front of the Consulate (in French) :

- Lignes directrices destinées à améliorer la transposition et l'application de la directive 2004/38/CE (page 3 to 7)
http://multinational.leforum.eu/p1183.htm

- Visa Handbook - mars 2010 (print whatever seems of interest to your case from the summary) :
http://multinational.leforum.eu/p2292.htm

- Directive 2004/38
http://multinational.leforum.eu/t14-Dir ... iliale.htm

- The EU general guide on 2004/38 ( in french, little bit outdated but still of great interest) :
http://multinational.leforum.eu/t140-Le ... peenne.htm

Last but not least, if you feel your relationship with the French consulate is dead, don't ask them a visa, asl only the transcription and go to the Belgium consulate (or any other european consulates in London) asking a 2004/38 visa.
Last edited by pierre75 on Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
New forum in french for binationals Europe/third country couples and families :
http://multinational.leforum.eu

babloo_girl
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Post by babloo_girl » Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:04 pm

Thank you so much for your reply,

He did go to the embassy last tuesday with all the documents required as well as my passport, our marriage certificate, his passport and proofs that we are living together but they refused to take his application because we didn't have the livret de famille.

If we go to the embassy of Belgium to request a visa, won't we have to travel first to belgium before being able to travel to France?

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:16 am

babloo_girl wrote:He did go to the embassy last tuesday with all the documents required as well as my passport, our marriage certificate, his passport and proofs that we are living together but they refused to take his application because we didn't have the livret de famille.
I would suggest you contact solvit and have them get involved with the french. https://eumovement.wordpress.com/help-eu-solvit/
babloo_girl wrote:If we go to the embassy of Belgium to request a visa, won't we have to travel first to belgium before being able to travel to France?
I think the official rule is that you apply at the embassy of the country you plan to go to the most, whatever that exactly means. Your primary destination.

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