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Tier 1 Refusal, need help

Archived UK Tier 1 (General) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

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rashijain
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Tier 1 Refusal, need help

Post by rashijain » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:46 am

I got Tier 1 visa refusal letter last friday, I need your help. Here is my case :

I claimed 12 months US earnings and showed all 12 months payslips (attested by HR) and 12 months electronic stat along with letter from ADP stating all credits by my employer. But the Entry Officer commented that the ADP is not a bank and these are not considered as bank documents.

I know that all my documents are valid, please help me on how can I convince the ECO in the admin review.

Regards

muhandis.ak
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Re: Tier 1 Refusal, need help

Post by muhandis.ak » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:58 am

ADP is a business which provides payroll/HR services to companies, in this case your employer. Thus the pay-slips & the ADP letter are from the same source. ADP is not a bank. IMHO I don't think you will be able to get a successful review.
rashijain wrote:I got Tier 1 visa refusal letter last friday, I need your help. Here is my case :

I claimed 12 months US earnings and showed all 12 months payslips (attested by HR) and 12 months electronic stat along with letter from ADP stating all credits by my employer. But the Entry Officer commented that the ADP is not a bank and these are not considered as bank documents.

I know that all my documents are valid, please help me on how can I convince the ECO in the admin review.

Regards

LearningCurve
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Post by LearningCurve » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:07 am

Does this mean you actually only have a ADP account and all your credit / debit transactions are done with this ADP account ?

If this is not the case and you have an actual bank involved, then what you should do is apply for admin review and this time submit a 12 month bank statement issued by the bank, with signature and seal on each page showing your salary credit.
Last edited by LearningCurve on Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

muhandis.ak
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Post by muhandis.ak » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:48 am

The guidance for Admin review says -

The administrative reviewer will examine the evidence submitted with the original application, copies of which will be kept at the refusal post. The administrative reviewer may request or require new evidence either from the applicant or from a third party, relating to any part of the original entry clearance application.

The applicant is not allowed to provide new evidence. Any new evidence will be disregarded unless the applicant was refused under paragraph 320 (7A) or 320 (7B) of the Immigration Rules on General Grounds for Refusal (see paragraph B4.12).

LearningCurve wrote:Does this mean you actually have a ADP account from which you and all your credit / debit transactions are with this ADP account ?

If this is not the case and you have an actual bank involved, then what you should do is apply for admin review and this time submit a 12 month bank statement issued by the bank, with signature and seal on each page showing your salary credit.

rashijain
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Post by rashijain » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:09 am

@muhandis: But is this correct to consider ADP and pay slips as the same source. Since my salary was credited in ADP, then what other source should have been submitted with my application?

@LearningCurve : Yes I had a separated ADP Account, wherein only credits from my employer were permitted. I could only debit the money from this Visa card. And I have submitted 12 months electronic statements, plus supporting letter from ADP stating all credits from my employer. I have also submitted all 12 months pay slip signed & stamped from local HR.

LearningCurve
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Post by LearningCurve » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:19 pm

@muhandis.ak

Thanks for pointing this out.

@ rashijain

You need to submit evidences from 2 different sources for your earnings claim.

1. payslips from employer.
2. 12 month bank statement.

The problem is now, since ADP is not considered a bank, but as an organisation who provide financial services to your employer, the electronic statement and the supporting document is all considered from a single source - your employer.

It appears unfortunately, as muhandis correctly pointed out, you may not be able to provide any additional evidence.

Read annex B in the policy guidelines, it appears you will have to make a fresh application and this time submit the correct evidence.

rashijain
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Post by rashijain » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:35 pm

@LC

What can be another source apart from ADP/Pay slip? Please suggest.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:48 pm

Wait till end of US financial year and apply afresh when you can provide tax document (1st evidence) along with payslips (2nd evidence) for the 12 months covering the same financial year.


regards

rashijain
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Post by rashijain » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:02 pm

@Sushdmehta:

I also submitted tax form, but that did not cover 3 months (Jan - Mar 2010). It is so sad, I should have consulted your all before.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:56 pm

rashijain wrote:I also submitted tax form, but that did not cover 3 months (Jan - Mar 2010).
Therefore, worthless.


regards

rashijain
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Post by rashijain » Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:34 am

Hey, just one last thing. The W2 tax form is also generated by ADP for us. Will this be considered from the same source like payslips and ADP statements?

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:52 am

No.

In UK the tax document (P60) is issued by the employer / payroll vendor, but it is accepted as a valid (independent) evidence.


regards

aruni4470
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Post by aruni4470 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:36 pm

I think the payslips and P60 are treated as from same source.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:12 pm

aruni4470 wrote:I think the payslips and P60 are treated as from same source.
An old post but IMHO still relevant.

A tax document is a "tax return", an official document - irrespective of who issues it (employer / payroll in UK/US etc.) or who files it (employee in India, but on basis of F16 issued by employer). That's my understanding.

regards

aruni4470
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Post by aruni4470 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:19 pm

sushdmehta wrote:
aruni4470 wrote:I think the payslips and P60 are treated as from same source.
An old post but IMHO still relevant.

A tax document is a "tax return", an official document - irrespective of who issues it (employer / payroll in UK/US etc.) or who files it (employee in India, but on basis of F16 issued by employer). That's my understanding.

regards
138. The applicant must provide at least two different types of supporting document for each source of earnings claimed. Each piece of supporting evidence must be from a separate source and support all the other evidence so that together they clearly prove the earnings claimed. For example: When providing documents for salaried employment, an applicant should not send payslips together with a P60, because we consider both of these documents to be from the same source.

http://bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteconten ... idance.pdf

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:25 pm

Wow! I am indeed growing old and out of date! :wink:
Was this restriction added recently (April 2010?) or earlier? Any idea.


rashijain, that puts you in a spot - if your W2 is issued by ADP. And my apologies too .. for outdated information!


regards
Last edited by geriatrix on Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aruni4470
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Post by aruni4470 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:31 pm

sushdmehta wrote:
Was this restriction added recently (April 2010?) or earlier? Any idea.
I am not sure either..

rashijain
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Post by rashijain » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:31 am

so now what, I am confused...Would waiting till year end do some difference?

LearningCurve
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Post by LearningCurve » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:09 am

Since you mention that the W2 tax form is also generated by ADP, then it might not be of much use.

However, if it is possible for you to obtain a document from "a tax authority" such as the US government, like as a tax returns document or from an authorized accountant or auditing firm, I think you should be good to make a fresh application.

See quote below from policy guidelines,
iv) the tax authority or employer, showing earnings on which tax has been paid or will be paid in a tax year. For these purposes, we define official tax documents as:

a document produced by a tax authority • that shows details of declarable taxable income on which tax has been paid or will be paid in a tax year (for example a tax refund letter or tax demand);

a document produced by an employer as • an official return to a tax authority, showing details of earnings on which tax has been paid in a tax year (for example a P60 in the United Kingdom); or

a document produced by a person, • business, or company as an official return to a tax authority, showing details of earnings on which tax has been paid or will be paid in a tax year. The document must have been approved, registered, or stamped by the tax authority (this is particularly relevant to some overseas tax systems, for example SARAL in India).

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Re: Tier 1 Refusal, need help

Post by prisat » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:32 am

rashijain wrote:I got Tier 1 visa refusal letter last friday, I need your help. Here is my case :

I claimed 12 months US earnings and showed all 12 months payslips (attested by HR) and 12 months electronic stat along with letter from ADP stating all credits by my employer. But the Entry Officer commented that the ADP is not a bank and these are not considered as bank documents.

I know that all my documents are valid, please help me on how can I convince the ECO in the admin review.

Regards
Mandatory : Atleast two evidences. And it should be from two different sources.
Ur ADP letter and attested 12 months electronic statement are / will be considered under the same source.

PS - Usually Bank Statement is a mandatory stuff in the earnings section.
Disclaimer :

I am not from a law firm or an attorney who provide Consultation for Immigration to UK.
Information that i provide is not the same as legal advice or legal advises. Use the message (s) and information at your own risk.

outbound
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Post by outbound » Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:59 pm

sushdmehta wrote:Wow! I am indeed growing old and out of date! :wink:
Was this restriction added recently (April 2010?) or earlier? Any idea.


rashijain, that puts you in a spot - if your W2 is issued by ADP. And my apologies too .. for outdated information!


regards
Isnt tax return the document that is sent by HMRC when we file returns using employer provided P60?

@rashijain i dont know the equivalent terms in US, but for India
Payslip source employer
Form 16 source employer
Income tax return (ITR5 acknowledgement) source IT dept

Hope this helps.

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